Post Your Opinions About Doom (Whether Controversial or Not)

[gemini09]

scifista42 said:

Which doors? Like, all of the 128x128 big doors should be remote-activated in your opinion?

Yes, pretty much all of the non-wood doors that rise to open up rather than potentially and realistically swing open.

Arctangent said:

Of course, that's ignoring the fact that the doors might just have a proximity sensor built into them, since all of them do do that sci-fi upwards opening. Just in the case of doors ( and lifts, for that matter ) that require the use button have sensors so close that you have to wave your hand near them or something.

That is true however so I dunno, but that's my controversial opinion and I'm sticking with it!

[kuchitsu]

I remember in Realm of Chaos there was a really huge door, maybe like 1024 wide and 256 tall. It was quite hilarious to imagine the Doomguy lifting it with all his strength.

[RUSH]

At first I didn't like Episode 4 of Ultimate Doom because of the sharply increased difficulty and sometimes annoying level design. Over the years though it has really grown on me. I love the entire episode now. The abstract catwalk style level design and overall use of wood and dark texturing is perfectly sinister and occultic.

I just wish the final spider mastermind encounter wasn't so anti-climatic. The suspense leading up to it was completely epic! And then... the spidey was just kind of trapped behind a wood wall. Whip out the BFG and it's over in about 5 seconds. Kind of a let down. Oh well, it was still fun.

[damerell]

Arctangent said:

Of course, that's ignoring the fact that the doors might just have a proximity sensor built into them, since all of them do do that sci-fi upwards opening.

Well, the architect knew there would never be a room above for it to open into.

Re compulsory nukage, I like E3M7, but definitely in spite of the compulsory nukage - it's possible to end up in a situation where you're not dead but it's impossible to finish the level.

(I reserve real hate for deathtrap nukage, though).

[AD_79]

I have no problems with forced pickups in maps and I hate when I see people complaining about them.

[Lila Feuer]

AD_79 said:

I have no problems with forced pickups in maps and I hate when I see people complaining about them.

As in pickups that are unavoidable in your mandatory path? It can be a problem when you want to make each shot count ammo-wise and you waste 24 shells while having 49/99 or something. And emergency health like extra soul spheres or even berserk packs.

[AD_79]

Cyanosis said:

As in pickups that are unavoidable in your mandatory path? It can be a problem when you want to make each shot count ammo-wise and you waste 24 shells while having 49/99 or something. And emergency health like extra soul spheres or even berserk packs.

Yes, that sort of thing. It's just not an issue to me.

[DoomzRules]

RUSH said:

At first I didn't like Episode 4 of Ultimate Doom because of the sharply increased difficulty and sometimes annoying level design. Over the years though it has really grown on me. I love the entire episode now. The abstract catwalk style level design and overall use of wood and dark texturing is perfectly sinister and occultic.

I just wish the final spider mastermind encounter wasn't so anti-climatic. The suspense leading up to it was completely epic! And then... the spidey was just kind of trapped behind a wood wall. Whip out the BFG and it's over in about 5 seconds. Kind of a let down. Oh well, it was still fun.

I kinda feel they should have had a new boss, some new enemies, and a new weapon in Episode 4 of Ultimate Doom....

[Wovenloaf]

Don't know how controversial these opinions actually are, but they are sure to at least incite some debate: A part of me still thinks that it'd have been better if the pistol was given separate ammo and if Bobby Prince didn't rely so much on 12-bar-blues progressions to drive the songs.

[RUSH]

DoomzRules said:

I kinda feel they should have had a new boss, some new enemies, and a new weapon in Episode 4 of Ultimate Doom....

Yes, exactly! I completely agree. I felt that way about Final Doom too. Doom II felt like a big leap forward in terms of challenge from Doom 1 because of all the new enemies. Final Doom and Ultimate Doom should have taken that one step further.

Well they did get more challenging, but some unique monsters and a new weapon for each would have made for a fresher, more memorable experience. Add some new boss enemies and it could have been perfect. Especially for Ultimate Doom. That one needed the boss improvement most of all.

Even if it was just another bullet sponge but with more health, like an even bigger spider demon. That would have been better than no change. And we ended up getting no change. Feels lazy on the part of id software. One of my only real complaints about the series.

[Gez]

Wovenloaf said:

Don't know how controversial these opinions actually are, but they are sure to at least incite some debate: A part of me still thinks that it'd have been better if the pistol was given separate ammo and if Bobby Prince didn't rely so much on 12-bar-blues progressions to drive the songs.

The game you want is Heretic. Separate ammo types for every weapon; no twelve bar blues.

[Wovenloaf]

Gez said:

The game you want is Heretic. Separate ammo types for every weapon; no twelve bar blues.

Ha ha, you have a point. :3

[DoomzRules]

RUSH said:

Yes, exactly! I completely agree. I felt that way about Final Doom too. Doom II felt like a big leap forward in terms of challenge from Doom 1 because of all the new enemies. Final Doom and Ultimate Doom should have taken that one step further.

Well they did get more challenging, but some unique monsters and a new weapon for each would have made for a fresher, more memorable experience. Add some new boss enemies and it could have been perfect. Especially for Ultimate Doom. That one needed the boss improvement most of all.

Even if it was just another bullet sponge but with more health, like an even bigger spider demon. That would have been better than no change. And we ended up getting no change. Feels lazy on the part of id software. One of my only real complaints about the series.

Personally I feel like a uncyberified Cyberdemon would have made for a great end boss for Episode 4.

http://www.realm667.com/index.php/en/beastiary-mainmenu-136/711-super-demon

In terms of new enemies? I think they should have reintroduced the Alpha Lost Soul as a new enemy type called a Wandering Ghost, and they should have recoloured the Pinky to make it a new enemy known as the Ogre that had double the HP of an Pinky and was coloured green, and it died in a relatively gory manner in comparison to the Pinky.


In terms of new weaponry, I feel like The Ultimate Doom should have introduced the Rifle. Final Doom should have introduced the Quad Shotgun, and the enemies should have been fresh and new.

Like the Satyr from Realm667, a bunch of monsters from this list would fit IMHO.

http://www.realm667.com/index.php/en/beastiary-mainmenu-136-69621/doom-style-mainmenu-105-73113

Maybe as a fan-project, our community should consider making a "What-if id Software included these gameplay elements and expanded upon them?"

By the way, did you know id Software was planning on having more gore than just gibs? They planned on having a decapitation death, a torso-severed death, and some more gory death animations.

No offense to Brutal Doom or Beautiful Doom, but IMHO the gore from the unused id Software sprites look so much more realistic and cooler!





Really wish that somehow there was a gore mod that continued the vision of what they were aiming for, art-style and all.

Because Brutal Doom and Beautiful Doom don't have the same sprite work or at least not in the same vein IMHO.

But eh, can't really complain right?

I mean I kinda wish Final Doom had a giant Minotaur as an end boss, that would summon wave after wave of Diabloesque monsters...

If all the demons had recolours like Diablo, that'd be cool. Colourful Hell is good and all, but it doesn't exactly have the colours I'm particularly talking about.

[Danfun64]

DoomzRules said:

Personally I feel like a uncyberified Cyberdemon would have made for a great end boss for Episode 4.

...why would a Cyberdemon without any cybernetic enhancements be stronger?

[Job]

Danfun64 said:

...why would a Cyberdemon without any cybernetic enhancements be stronger?

Cybernetic prosthetics were grafted onto a crippled or injured super demon. Although it's no longer able to fight at its original power level, it's one way it can still contribute to the demonic invasion.

[Joshua Schäferhund]

I really don't understand why people love the SNES version of Doom's music so much. The instrument samples are incredibly muddy and channels keep cutting out when multiple sound effects are played. (Primarily due to poor driver programming and the SNES hardware struggling to run the game while having music and sound effects at the same time.) Yes, the 32x had awful instrumentation, but at least the compositions themselves were consistent with the original MIDIs.

[DoomzRules]

Danfun64 said:

...why would a Cyberdemon without any cybernetic enhancements be stronger?

Because we don't know the full extent of the Superdemon's powers.

[PureSlime]

Patch93 said:

I really don't understand why people love the SNES version of Doom's music so much. The instrument samples are incredibly muddy and channels keep cutting out when multiple sound effects are played. (Primarily due to poor driver programming and the SNES hardware struggling to run the game while having music and sound effects at the same time.) Yes, the 32x had awful instrumentation, but at least the compositions themselves were consistent with the original MIDIs.

Now, the 3DO on the other hand.

[Danfun64]

I forgot the original Cyberdemon became what it was because it was injured.

[Doomkid]

Patch93 said:

I really don't understand why people love the SNES version of Doom's music so much. The instrument samples are incredibly muddy and channels keep cutting out when multiple sound effects are played. (Primarily due to poor driver programming and the SNES hardware struggling to run the game while having music and sound effects at the same time.) Yes, the 32x had awful instrumentation, but at least the compositions themselves were consistent with the original MIDIs.

I'll first just say that the SNES soundtrack is satisfactory, but by no means "great", the original MIDIs are cleaner and just better in every way, to me. That said, the 32x is far from accurate - almost all of e1m8 is entirely off key, and there aren't even any drums - My ears hear the SNES version as a far more faithful interperetation - correct notes hit throughout, and the drums are pretty good even if it sounds like it was played by a slightly drunk 18 years old Lars Ulrich. At least they're there, though!

The 32x soundtrack should have sounded 100% identical to DOS. It's the same Yamaha sound chip thing, ain't it?

[Jaxxoon R]

Eeeh basically. The Genesis' YM2612 came from a different family of chips (OPN as opposed to OPL). Although OPL2/3(YM3812/YMF262) had a good number more channels than the 2612 (about 9 and 18 respectively as opposed to the 2612's 6), the OPN family was distinguished by the inclusion of PCM (essentially WAV) playback. The 2612 is actually a stripped-down version of the 2608 or OPNA, the one you'd find in the PC88 and PC98 line of computers. Luckily, the Genesis also had a PSG to go along with its FM chip, so that's another couple of channels at its disposal.

But all that kind of goes out the window once the 32X is involved... that thing's a mess of software DAC (PWM?) mixing and even I don't fully understand it once you step out of the hardware side of things. I've seen Chilly Willy's writings, and apparently (if I'm interpreting this right), anywhere between 8-16 MOD channels is doable, which can then be mixed down to the 32X's 4, and (this part is the standard way of doing things) then sent down through the cartridge slot and mixed with the Genesis audio to then be output to the TV. What the fuck possessed SOA to create this kind of ghetto ass setup is beyond me, but anyways. All this goes to show is that there is no real excuse for 32X Doom's music to have been as ass as it was, other than apathy/lack of proper resources.

[rabidrage]

The SNES "instruments" may have sounded muddy, but aside from 3DO, it's the only system that sounded like it had instruments at all. Faithfulness doesn't matter to me if it's a step up, which, at the time, SNES music was. If only it hadn't been made for a 16-bit system...

[Maes]

I've always wondered how Doom's soundtrack would sound if it was composed with an Amiga-like tracker since the beginning. These were several quite good hard rock/heavy metal modules, with guitars and percussion sounding much better than what any FM or even professional wavetable MIDI could produce, and a lot less muddy than what the SNES sounded like. E.g.:

DAT DISTORTION GUITAR!!! O_o

Of course, that would put even more strain on CPUs that struggled to run Doom as-is...and yeah, I'm aware of certain "modules" made from simply converting the MIDIs or how the Amiga Doom soundtrack sounds like, but those are not optimized in the way the Cortouchka mod was.

Edit: FWIW, there's Demonic Sensation, an ambient-techno module using Doom samples. Quite good, for what it is.

[Joshua Schäferhund]

Doomkid said:

That said, the 32x is far from accurate - almost all of e1m8 is entirely off key, and there aren't even any drums

Sign of Evil is off key in the 32x version because of bad FM preset programming. However, the notes themselves at least play consistently when compared to the original MIDI files. The percussion in much of the SNES version music tends to be very flimsy in timing and parts of some tracks are even missing, the choir suddenly vanishes towards the end of E1M8 and the square wave track just stops midway through E2M8.

I will say the SNES version's music is better than the 32x's in the sense that the instrumentation is at least tolerable, but it's still not that good, especially when you compare it to other SNES games with rock scores that have better samples. (Tim Follin's work, Uniracers and even the Megaman X games come to mind.)

[TheMightyHeracross]

I'm not a fan of Barons. They have way too much HP, and having no real new behavior made them a lame E1 boss fight. Unfortunately, not having been alive for Doom's '93 release, I don't have all the shock, horror, nostalgia, etc. of these new encounters, what with Doom being a new, awesome, scary piece of work and all, so it can't really help me. Hell Knight is more acceptable, since he has half the HP. I guess later on when you have good guns I'm fine with Barons, but id could've made them more interesting.

[VGamingJunkie]

That's a good point. When you get down to it, a Baron is just a souped up Imp.

[Fonze]

Barons were pretty intimidating back in the 90's, but look at the way they were used: limited space (medium sized arena) with spectres around. That was also before using the mouse became widely popular and better supported by programs.

But even today barons have many uses that neither Hell Knights nor any other enemy simply cannot fill.

[Olroda]

Fonze said:

That was also before using the mouse became widely popular and better supported by programs.

...And don't forget that the average player wasn't as good at playing the game as one would be now! The "FPS" was a new concept, after all. I'm not at all surprised if the majority of players were in fact introduced to it by Wolf3d or DooM.

[dobu gabu maru]

Fonze said:

But even today barons have many uses that neither Hell Knights nor any other enemy simply cannot fill.

Yupyup, they fill an extremely vital role: high-health/low priority blockade. While the pinkie maintains that position when the player merely has the SG/SSG/chaingun, the baron is extremely useful at soaking damage when the player is well-stocked with rockets and cell. Like a couple of other enemies in the bestiary, they can be rendered pointless when used on their own, but barons are fantastic at directing the flow of battle thanks to their bulkiness. I personally prefer them to cacodemons by a wide-margin, though their use is admittedly more limited.

[MrGlide]

dobu gabu maru said:

Yupyup, they fill an extremely vital role: high-health/low priority blockade. While the pinkie maintains that position when the player merely has the SG/SSG/chaingun, the baron is extremely useful at soaking damage when the player is well-stocked with rockets and cell. Like a couple of other enemies in the bestiary, they can be rendered pointless when used on their own, but barons are fantastic at directing the flow of battle thanks to their bulkiness. I personally prefer them to cacodemons by a wide-margin, though their use is admittedly more limited.

I agree, when in a group they're more of an infighting weapon then another enemy, they are a little boreing to fight by themselves though unless in cramped space as previously stated by fonze.