Post Your Opinions About Doom (Whether Controversial or Not)

[cu2]

I am at the same boat as you. Haven't played any doom game past plutonia, mainly because pc's that can play this thing run a bit expensive, but I still don't quite like the idea of the almost obligatory stagger state that a monster enters instead of just dying. The simple joy of a single shotgun blast killing multiple zombies never gets old for me.

[Faceman2000]

6 hours ago, Lokatzis 007 CJ said:

I am at the same boat as you. Haven't played any doom game past plutonia, mainly because pc's that can play this thing run a bit expensive, but I still don't quite like the idea of the almost obligatory stagger state that a monster enters instead of just dying. The simple joy of a single shotgun blast killing multiple zombies never gets old for me.

The stagger state isn’t obligatory - it only occurs if you get them down to a certain health level but you can easily go past it and kill enemies without ever triggering their stagger state.

 

So don’t worry haha, you can still use the SSG to kill multiple zombies in a single shot.

[pcorf]

Mount Pain.

Shotgun Guys.

Chaingun Guys.

Visplane Overflows.

[kawadec]

According to this vid about classic Doom's enemy AI, there's some interesting details about how the revenant behaves:

 

- If Doomguy is far away, revenant shoots.

- If Doomguy deals damage to revenant, it shoots.

- If Doomguy is close to the revenant but has not dealt damage, it will not shoot and instead run in for a melee attack, resulting in a kind of "sweet spot" of where you want to be when fighting it.

 

If anything, this makes me view the Marauder's schtick as an advanced version of the classic revenant's behavior, and turned into more obvious gameplay mechanics.

Edited July 15, 2020 by kawadec

[Pixel Fiend]

Prodeus will be better than Doom.

 

Chocolate Doom has a very elusive gameplay flow superiority that you won't emulate in gzdoom.

Edited July 19, 2020 by <<Rewind

[SchwTrdLeenW]

I don't get the backlash against the "infinitely" reviving chaingunners in Plutonia. IIRC, there are only 5 in the entire wad, spread over 2 maps, and all of them are put in a location where you can dodge their shots pretty conveniently. Oh, and the AVs will be automatically crushed if you progress past a certain point.

 

Edit.: Okay, i admittedly forgot about the ones in MAP10, which can be dangerous if you didn't pick up the blursphere beforehand. But it's only a one time rush, and they get also crushed after that.

Edited July 19, 2020 by SchwTrdLeenW
Mistake

[Roofi]

It's more fun to kill a cyberdemon with a chaingun than a plasmagun.

[dmslr]

7 minutes ago, Roofi said:

It's more fun to kill a cyberdemon with a chaingun than a plasmagun.

45 seconds of monotonous right-clicking one demon?

[sincity2100]

On 7/19/2020 at 3:53 PM, Roofi said:

It's more fun to kill a cyberdemon with a chaingun than a plasmagun.

Good luck with your killing ten of them with a chaingun then..

[Endless]

On 7/19/2020 at 8:03 AM, dmslr said:

45 seconds of monotonous right-clicking one demon?

Its even better with the shotgun.

[sincity2100]

Hell Revealed is terrible.. it aged like Milk and Cheese....

[nostalgia]

There's no shame on using the resurrect command if you died on a way that justifies it.

[P41R47]

17 minutes ago, nostalgia said:

There's no shame on using the resurrect command if you died on a way that justifies it.

If you cleared almost all the map and then stupidly run into a revenant/mancubi/caco/imp/nobles/cyber/arachno fire or a lost soul, like i like to do almost all the time, then yes.

But if the map is really kicking your ass from the beggining, is better you reload it and try again with another strategy.

Also, Master Levels are the best set of maps released for Doom 2. Only surpased by the most wondeful collection of maps that is Maximum Doom.

 

 

Edited July 26, 2020 by P41R47

[Chip]

2 hours ago, nostalgia said:

There's no shame on using the resurrect command if you died on a way that justifies it.

I usually save before I know there is going to be a massive showdown. also, I save in the middle of a cyberdemon fight, always (unless I have an invulnerability and a BFG).

 

my controversial opinion is that DOOM 2 should have been episodic like DOOM. I like getting a quarter of the way through, and losing everything, then making my way back up. I was OP by like halfway through the game. Also, I never found too much difficulty with Barrels O' Fun. 

[TheNoob_Gamer]

58 minutes ago, LiT_gam3r said:

my controversial opinion is that DOOM 2 should have been episodic like DOOM.

You are not alone, many people actually disliked the 1-episode structure of Doom 2, and thus, countless mega/miniwads (especially ones with dead exits like Scythe) have been made to reflect this.

[Chow Yun Thin]

On 7/8/2020 at 6:53 PM, Boaby Kenobi said:

Doom II isn't a "true" sequel, it's more an add-on/expansion like Final Doom

The more I think about it, the more it seems Doom II is really Doom part 2 or a megasized Episode 5. The end of Episode 3 states that Hell opens a portal for Doomguy to return to Earth (and totally bypasses E4), but Dis doesn't have any portal or teleporter. What if Hell said, "Fuck you, I'm taking your shit! And the portal's at so-and-so!" Then you have E4 as a chronicle of Doomguy's trek through another part of Hell to this portal, whereupon he falls through (losing his stuff a fourth time) and lands on Entryway.

 

Doomguy: happy to tear Hell a new asshole whenever it gets uppity, but think twice before loaning him any of your stuff.

 

51 minutes ago, LiT_gam3r said:

my controversial opinion is that DOOM 2 should have been episodic like DOOM. I like getting a quarter of the way through, and losing everything, then making my way back up. I was OP by like halfway through the game.

It's not my style, but I believe that's the draw of pistol starts. No extra stuff from the previous level, just your skills and whatever items are graciously gifted by the mapper vs whatever devious shit the mapper has planned. Makes picking up a new weapon feel good instead of "Oh, more ammo. Yay."

[taufan99]

1 hour ago, LiT_gam3r said:

DOOM 2 should have been episodic like DOOM

Good thing this small mod exists.

[Chip]

I have a few complaints about the 2016 reboot. 

1. There was no way to quicksave or manually save! I love doing that. 
2. levels were too long for me.
3. the arena combat was a joke. DOOM was never about you having to take down every demon just to progress to another level (except for some parts of DOOM 64, but there was only like a few demons to take down at once, not a whole horde of them). 
4. ammo felt rare.
5. All the demons are too fast. I liked an imp walking around and then shooting a ball you could easily dodge. Not a summoner escaping as you attempt to finish them
6. I didn't enjoy it. 

That's also why I didn't get Eternal. I was thinking about getting DOOM³, but I don't like survival horror. So, I only play DOOM 1/2/64, I guess I could include Final DOOM, but that was too annoying for me in some parts. 

[Edward850]

6 minutes ago, LiT_gam3r said:

There was no way to quicksave or manually save! I love doing that. 

You're in for a bad time if you keep expecting games to have this. It's not an easy technology to implement as it requires a substantial amount of serialization to work properly.

[Nevander]

3 hours ago, Edward850 said:

You're in for a bad time if you keep expecting games to have this. It's not an easy technology to implement as it requires a substantial amount of serialization to work properly.

Why was it easier then compared to now? Wouldn't modern, more streamlined games be able to handle saving at any time much easier? How do modern games do it then? It can be done, it's just not every game does and I don't understand why, given that it's objectively the superior method of saving game progress from a player's perspective.

[Edward850]

54 minutes ago, Nevander said:

Why was it easier then compared to now? Wouldn't modern, more streamlined games be able to handle saving at any time much easier?

Quite the exact opposite, the streamlining done in programming is actually what makes it more complicated. First and foremost: Serialization is the process of turning memory dependent objects such as pointers into a portable format, remember that pointers only mean anything useful to the local machine, and sometimes not even that because the structure of data can change locally if you rebuild all the objects.

 

Older games have an easier task of it because their simplified data is much easier to serialize from/to RAM. The data may at most have one or two pointers (or sometimes nothing at all, a game of chess could be easily represented without any pointers for example) that are easily turned back into an index of some description and then back into a pointer. Note that the original Doom didn't serialize pointers and thus target information was lost, forcing the active gamestate to seemingly change on load. Though it wouldn't have been too hard to resolve as the thinker list was intact, this was likely due to time constraints which leads into the following;

 

Modern games are about a shitzillion times more complex, usually opting for a very modular design along objects to be constructed to their minimum capabilities. This can lead into other things such as module list chains that reference other modules on sometime even completely different objects. Serializing this information, both in a memory and time efficient means, and at all, is quite tedious because you sort of have to pre-construct entire index tables of every objects reference to every other object. This concept can get quite difficult to explain even on paper because it requires the fore knowledge of the logistics of RTTI, where you could have types that are descendent of each other referencing each others parent types. It gets weird.

 

Then you have other factors such as scripting and state management. Some states can't be arbitrarly reloaded without causing problems and need to be meticulous about how they get reloaded. We still have a bug somewhere in Turok2's animation and script management that can cause the final boss to completely softlock if it's saved on a very exact frame that the save management can't fully restore, thus causing the animation module and the scripts around it to completely wig out. Why does this happen? Fucked if we know, and we programmed the damn thing.

 

Footnote: "Why can emulators do it so easily then when they can't change the games code"; Because the answer is in the question, they are emulators, and thus capable of making a snapshot of the emulated memory and execution state. Anything about the local machine state is itself part of the emulation, and thus can be perfectly captured and restored and any time. You could kind of do this within the machine itself with some DOS games as long as you kept the data on the same machine, though this wasn't anything more different than a OS-styled DOS hibernation. The same concept wouldn't work nowadays due to the multi-process environment and range of hardware (Your GPU may still be the same GPU but good luck getting a 3rd party program to completely save/restore its memory, let alone only the relevant parts).

Fun fact though, this is apparently how the Xbox Series X plans to work, hibernating the hypervised (not a word but whatever) Game OS into the SSD, though predictably only one state per game (and only a specific number of games at a time) because game memory is huge.

Edited July 27, 2020 by Edward850

[seed]

Ed's post was probably the most informative tech bit I've read today. Good insight.

 

But I honestly don't miss quicksaving/loading in modern games. Similar to old games, their design philosophy is different and work around this problem with their design, so it doesn't feel as if something is really missing from the experience.

 

I agree that Doom 2 itself would have worked better as an episodic deal too gameplay-wise, but it would've been much worse for the narrative since the game's design was different from that of Doom 1 where the player follows a story more closely, whereas Doom 2 threw that out of the window in exchange for pure gameplay. I'm really not seeing maps like Barrels O' Fun, Circle of Death, The Chasm, or Monster Condo working with an episodic format even in the slightest.

[Boaby Kenobi]

11 hours ago, Chow Yun Thin said:

The more I think about it, the more it seems Doom II is really Doom part 2 or a megasized Episode 5.

 

I love Doom II but I really think it's just an add-on instead of a full sequel. I think maybe the reason for my thinking this way is because I first played Doom on PlayStation and even though Doom & Doom II on that edition are separate it feels to me more like one big adventure. 

 

10 hours ago, LiT_gam3r said:

I have a few complaints about the 2016 reboot. 

1. I didn't enjoy it. 

 

I didn't enjoy it either when I first played it, in fact, I seem to remember thinking something like: "This is shit, this isn't Doom". My first experience was on PS4 though and not long after that I got a slightly better video card for my computer and when I played Doom 2016 on PC it felt a lot better just for having the keyboard and mouse instead of a controller. Now I think the game is an excellent continuation of the Doom series and actually I'm just about to play through the campaign again and try to get all upgrades, secrets, etc.

[Nevander]

7 hours ago, seed said:

But I honestly don't miss quicksaving/loading in modern games.

I always will, just for the simple fact that I'm not a fan of the game deciding when I'm allowed to save my progress.

 

Some games are very poorly designed to where the "checkpoints" are spread really thin and dying or failing makes you replay huge chunks of stuff that you broke your back trying to do.

[seed]

23 minutes ago, Nevander said:

I always will, just for the simple fact that I'm not a fan of the game deciding when I'm allowed to save my progress.

 

Some games are very poorly designed to where the "checkpoints" are spread really thin and dying or failing makes you replay huge chunks of stuff that you broke your back trying to do.

 

Truth be said some games do it better than others, naturally, some have mid-saves, others don't and force you to replay an entirely section until you beat it, and of course others have relatively aggressive saving - think of the Batman Arkham games here.

 

You really wouldn't want quicksaves in those games, they would be virtually useless since the games save very often, after entering/leaving areas, fight/mini-fights, flying to other regions, picking up trophies/collectibles, and so on.

[Man of Doom]

This has more to do with modding, but I think that the Doom 3 sounds are some of the most overused sounds in Doom mods out there, *especially* the monster sounds (from the Commando's "I WILL EAT YOUR SOUL" to the guttural screeching of the Imp to the Cyberdemon's sounds being used for the friggin' Baalgar of all things).

Edited July 27, 2020 by Man of Doom

[Uni Musuotankarep]

For Doom Mods. Grezzo 2 and Sharpshooter3D are my favorites. That's why I want to create an American Version of those games combined into one standalone mod.

I shall call it Massacre3D, and it shall be released on ModDB.

[Good-Old]

On 7/28/2020 at 7:14 AM, Uni000 said:

For Doom Mods. Grezzo 2 and Sharpshooter3D are my favorites. That's why I want to create an American Version of those games combined into one standalone mod.

I shall call it Massacre3D, and it shall be released on ModDB.

ZDoom is much better man, ModDB is filled with BD heads.

[Endless]

11 minutes ago, Good-Old said:

ZDoom is much better man, ModDB is filled with BD heads.

Is this comment compatible with Brutal Doom? Can you make this comment compatible with Brutal Doom? Wy dont yo make this comment compatible with brutul dewn?

[Juza]

17 minutes ago, Good-Old said:

ZDoom is much better man, ModDB is filled with BD heads.

ModDb people would demonize it for not being compatible with BDoom, and ZDoom forum demonize it for being 'offensive' ¯\_(ツ)_/¯