The more I see of DOOM (2016), the more I dislike DOOM 3

[LkMax]

Deatheye said:

your "o.k. game" was probably id's biggest financial success, it was the doom game the devs wanted doom to look and be like and it was one of the best games in the year 2004 together with half life 2

Then iD was right when they were going to do Call of Doom, after all, Call of Duty makes a ton of money so this must be an awesome game to copy, yay!

AirRaid said:

I hope so. I'd like to see HL3 within the next couple of years. :)

Heh, I'll confess this is not the response I expected =P
Back to a long wait I guess.

[AirRaid]

Phobos is being worked on, as quick as we can. Progress is being made even if the team is fairly quiet publicly.

[Vermil]

Maybe by fluke to a degree, Classic Doom's design, asset's, gameplay etc etc uniquely come together to cover/allow a wide variety of game types/play styles etc etc near perfectly.

This is clear even in the four main Iwads; Doom1, Doom2, TNT and Plutonia.

Doom3, Doom3 ROE and Doom 2016 attempted and are attempting to imitate some, but not all of those game types.

[Deatheye]

LkMax said:

Then iD was right when they were going to do Call of Doom, after all, Call of Duty makes a ton of money so this must be an awesome game to copy, yay!

Yea just ignore the other and most important 2 points

[redrage]

AirRaid said:

Phobos is being worked on, as quick as we can. Progress is being made even if the team is fairly quiet publicly.

I really hope the team manages to release Phobos before D4. I feel the risk is very high that it won't get the recognition it deserves if it gets released after Doom 2016.

If you guys manage to release it before May you may even get a boost from the upcoming release of D4 though!

Either way I wish you guys the best. Can't wait to see all your hard work and play through it myself. :)

[LkMax]

Deatheye said:

Yea just ignore the other and most important 2 points

What "other and most important 2 points"?
this is the rest of your sentence:

Deatheye said:

it was the doom game the devs wanted doom to look and be like and it was one of the best games in the year 2004 together with half life 2

The first says nothing about anything and the second is your personal opinion (which is neither "important" nor a point).
I'll do something better, I'll ignore you instead, because arging with idiots is pointless.

[Gzegzolka]

redrage said:

I really hope the team manages to release Phobos before D4. I feel the risk is very high that it won't get the recognition it deserves if it gets released after Doom 2016.

If you guys manage to release it before May you may even get a boost from the upcoming release of D4 though!

Either way I wish you guys the best. Can't wait to see all your hard work and play through it myself. :)

It will be recognized as long as community spreed information about it on social media. Release it is one thing, but getting popularity beyond narrow community of doom1-3 forum is other thing. I think we should tweet about it, share it on our facebooks walls, do YouTube let's plays and submit news to other web sites like gamespot, ign, modDB or local ones. Stuff is not popular just because it is created, hype is created, sometimes by fans, sometimes by creators.

[AirRaid]

redrage said:

I really hope the team manages to release Phobos before D4.

Yeah... as Lead Tester on the project I'm gonna go ahead and confirm that won't be happening.

[Ironhound]

In Doom 3's defense, its combat wasn't that bad.

Really its biggest issue was the level design and enemy spawns. The places they teleported in, really made you constantly whip around and check your six. Incredibly annoying. Its levels meant that most people didn't even bother with the sprint button. (Or at least I assume they didn't as I never sprinted during my first playthrough.)

These problems become really noticeable if you play Doom 3 BFG, The Lost mission expansion. Said expansion goes back to more Doom 1 level design, where sprinting, lots of enemies, and hectic chaos come back into the light. Doom 3 is capable of good combat, it just wasn't properly utilized in favor of 'immersion'.


...I even like the Doom 3 shotgun. I hated it at first compared to Doom classic, but when sprinting about, it really is quite good... assuming you like to hug your enemies. :P

[quakke]

I like the Doom 3 DoubleBarrelShotgun but not the main shotgun.

[Face23785]

This subject has been beaten to death. Overall Doom 3 was a good game. It had it's flaws, but I hate to break it to you SO DID DOOM AND DOOM 2. Most of the hate on Doom 3 stems from people looking at the original games through rose colored glasses and just hating that Doom 3 wasn't more of the same. I loved the original games. They were exciting, fun and scary. They were obviously held back by the technology of the time but they utilized what was available in an extremely effective way. So what was wrong with the new game doing the same thing?

So the player wasn't as fast? Ok, is that really so bad considering the original player was absurdly fast? How many times have you fallen into ooze or missed a pickup because the player is so fucking fast?

So it was dark. Cry me a fucking river, you can still see where you're going and what you're doing. It's a product of the setting, a space base that's been devastated by a disaster. Odds are it's not going to be brightly lit anymore. There were dark parts in the original games too, and VERY dark parts in Doom 64.

You can't have 50 enemies on screen at once. Ok, tactically that makes no difference because the enemies' attacks aren't as easy to dodge anymore and there's less space to work with. When were you ever overwhelmed by the sheer number of monsters in the original game? Numbers alone couldn't do it, proper placement was key. A small number of monsters could make a very effective trap when done well. You could argue it just felt cooler and more fun to mow down hordes of demons, but that's more of a personal preference than anything. It's not game-breaking.

There was no METULLL. OK, you're not an angst filled teenager anymore playing a violent game because your mom doesn't like you playing them and listening to that evil music. Let it go, it'll be ok. The music in the original games fit great and was indeed iconic, but the ambiance in the PSX version and in Doom 64 fit just as well. Play something from your personal music collection if you absolutely need it to make yourself feel like a man.

When you get to the root of most of the complaints about the game, and ask the question "why is x so bad?" basically all you've got is because it wasn't the way it was in the original game.

I can agree there were parts of the combat that weren't well fleshed out, like the shotgun being absurdly ineffective at anything beyond 3 feet, while the shotgun zsec could shoot you from a mile away and still do killer damage. The pistol was weak? Sure it was, it's a fucking pistol. Have any of you used a handgun before? Unless he was issued a high caliber revolver, the pistol is going to be weak and ineffective against any kind of monster. Caliber isn't discussed in the game. You can make the same point about the machine gun. It's probably a small caliber so it can hold, what was it, 60 rounds? The lead-in for the teleporting monsters was horrible, I've really got no defense for whoever thought that was a good idea. It was ok the first time but as you progressed through the game they should've made it happen instantly, just for tactics sake.

But again, the combat in the original games wasn't perfect either. How many times have you seen people complain about the health of the lost soul, the chaingunners' attacks being overpowered, barons being ammo sponges, the SMM being a weak ass final boss, IoS being a played out and boring final boss. The fucking PE is useless if you can get next to it. Monsters 100 feet below you if you're trying to go over a ledge could block your movement! Flying monsters anyone? But none of this is GAME-BREAKING or makes the game suck. They're little quirks that just make the game no perfect.

[Plasma Gun]

Well then, after this discussion I feel the urge to replay DOOM 3 + RoE + Lost Mission.

[Koko Ricky]

Doom 3's main issue--besides the inconsistent art direction and sound design--was its clunky mechanics. Yeah, the game is too linear, too dark and has too little Hell, but the relationship between the player, the environment, the weapons and enemies is just odd. There are too many little things that feel unpolished and unrefined.

[Deatheye]

[Koko Ricky]

For the record, ROE is way more engaging than the original campaign, and has a better end boss, too.

[Ironhound]

GoatLord said:

For the record, ROE is way more engaging than the original campaign, and has a better end boss, too.

What happened to shooting a boss until he died?

Both of those fights where unsatisfying.

[Deatheye]

Ironhound said:

What happened to shooting a boss until he died?

Both of those fights where unsatisfying.

shooting 4 rockets into a small hole in a wall is way more satisfying

[Plasma Gun]

Deatheye said:

shooting 4 rockets into a small hole in a wall is way more satisfying

It was!

[Face23785]

Ironhound said:

What happened to shooting a boss until he died?

Both of those fights where unsatisfying.

Just like a lot of things people didn't like about Doom/Doom II, those have been fixed by mods.

Anything else that I can turn around and complain about the same thing in the legacy games? Again, I love the original games, I grew up with them, but the idealized circle jerking that goes on here sometimes gets on my nerves. Doom with better graphics got made, it's called source ports. Just play those if that's all you wanted.