mapping sucks part 389

[kuchitsu]

Had some fun ideas in my head (has anyone ever made a switch that is seemingly useless but actually every time you press it the nearby door opens by one more unit?) so opened editor, drawed some stuff for 20 minutes, then got so disgusted with it that I had to delete my whole Doom folder. Has anyone figured out how to have fun mapping and not worry about the quality yet?

[AD_79]

kuchitsu said:

Has anyone figured out how to have fun mapping and not worry about the quality yet?

Currently working on this, and failing miserably.

[Li'l devil]

kuchitsu said:

I think I'll stop visiting Doomworld, etc.

Well, you've managed to survive 2 days without Doomworld!

[Use]

You're doing it wrong.

[HavoX]

That didn't take long

[Ribbiks]

something something, bill murray, groundhog day, etc..

[MrGlide]

no, actually I'm loving my new hobby. why are you stressed out? I find great joy in mapping, I wish I started sooner.

[Quineotio]

kuchitsu said:

Had some fun ideas in my head (has anyone ever made a switch that is seemingly useless but actually every time you press it the nearby door opens by one more unit?) so opened editor, drawed some stuff for 20 minutes, then got so disgusted with it that I had to delete my whole Doom folder. Has anyone figured out how to have fun mapping and not worry about the quality yet?

Try having fun with it and not worry about the quality :)

[scifista42]

Try this: Make your map with a premise that the map will never be released, never be seen by anybody else than yourself, AND that even you will eventually abandon it (not delete it, just keep laying and/or forget). Make it entirely just for the sake of turning your interesting creative vision into reality. Keep making the map until you feel that this basic goal was fulfilled in some way. Only after that's accomplished, you may decide what to do with the map next - perhaps stop, or perhaps continue it with your next interesting creative vision that you wanted to turn into reality, and that might be unrelated to the original map, or it might be related to extending the map, improving it (in your eyes), changing it experimentally...

Spoiler

And call the map finished ONLY after you start feeling a need to release the map despite your original premise!

I've not actually finished many maps this way, but at least I enjoyed the mapmaking.

[kuchitsu]

I didn't really come back. Deleted the game so...

[Obsidian]

You, uhh, deleted your copy of Doom?

You should probably talk to someone about these impulses of yours...

[DooM_RO]

kuchitsu said:

Had some fun ideas in my head (has anyone ever made a switch that is seemingly useless but actually every time you press it the nearby door opens by one more unit?) so opened editor, drawed some stuff for 20 minutes, then got so disgusted with it that I had to delete my whole Doom folder. Has anyone figured out how to have fun mapping and not worry about the quality yet?

More than you can possibly imagine.

I mean, I've been working on my first WAD for a few years and to be fair I've made some pretty cool stuff...but it's agonizingly slow. I've had a lot of failed attempts at making some rooms/zones that were so bad I am ashamed I ever made them. Luckily, subsequent attempts were a lot better. Still, it's slow and many times I can barely make the simplest rooms which leaves me frustrated, insecure and keeps making me doubting my talents. A lot of the time I map I simply stare at the screen and feel like the biggest retard ever. Then I imagine these guys making awesome stuff like Valiant and Sunlust in far less time and far more efficiently.

Luckily, things have sped up quite significantly since the start of the year and it is almost done. I intend to finish it by the next month.

[Zulk RS]

scifista42 said:

Try this: Make your map with a premise that the map will never be released, never be seen by anybody else than yourself, AND that even you will eventually abandon it (not delete it, just keep laying and/or forget). Make it entirely just for the sake of turning your interesting creative vision into reality. Keep making the map until you feel that this basic goal was fulfilled in some way. Only after that's accomplished, you may decide what to do with the map next - perhaps stop, or perhaps continue it with your next interesting creative vision that you wanted to turn into reality, and that might be unrelated to the original map, or it might be related to extending the map, improving it (in your eyes), changing it experimentally...

Spoiler

And call the map finished ONLY after you start feeling a need to release the map despite your original premise!

I've not actually finished many maps this way, but at least I enjoyed the mapmaking.

As someone who tried this exact same method when he first got into mapping, I can say that the one and only drawback it posed to me is that the maps, though seemed cool at the time, were so shitty that I deleted them 'cause it was a waste of time, effort, space and I couldn't bare to look at them anymore.

[HavoX]

kuchitsu said:

I didn't really come back. Deleted the game so...

Wonderful, just wonderful.

You really pushed it this time, guys.

[pming]

Hiya!

Open up OBLIGE or SLIEG or whatever it/they are called. Set some parameters...making sure to nix all the items and monsters! You only want the map part. Now, hit the "build map" button.

Now, play it and wander around. Let your imagination fly and role-play/pretend/imagine you are actually there, and it's abandoned. Think of a story as to why, based on what you are looking at and feeling. Once you feel you have enough creative juice in your glass, quit the map.

Open it up in DeepSea, Doombuilder, WadAuthor, SLADE, or whatever editor you prefer. Now...remember your 'story'? Well, get to it! Fix that map so that it makes your made up story 'make sense'.

I use this technique when I start to get all blaaaaa from mapping. When I have a dozen different ideas in my head...none of which will actually work *together* in one map. I get frustrated as all get-out too. :( So...grabbing someone elses crappy map (look for something with about 2 stars in the Levels section of this web site), or use a random map maker (OBLIGE is surprisingly good...I haven't used it for years...I was, er, surprised).

When you have something "roughed out" for you already, all you have to do is add the detail and little, fun, fiddly bits. :)

Maybe it will work for you...maybe it won't. Worth a shot though, isn't it?

[everennui]

kuchitsu said:

Had some fun ideas in my head (has anyone ever made a switch that is seemingly useless but actually every time you press it the nearby door opens by one more unit?) so opened editor, drawed some stuff for 20 minutes, then got so disgusted with it that I had to delete my whole Doom folder. Has anyone figured out how to have fun mapping and not worry about the quality yet?

Just make something small. Put the keys in a basic spot and make it playable from there. Don't spend too much time on details until you have the flow of the map that you want. Don't view it as a map yet. It's just a canvas - after you get a good flow. Don't get discouraged. Go into your garbage bin and restore them. It's a process.

pick certain things that you'd like to improve upon and slowly build your library of knowledge. I think it's fun to watch Twitch while map.

Try to make a map like e1m1 or similar. Something that the player can just zip buy. Big projects can take a lot out of you, smaller levels are quick and can be refined really well.

Try something like 6 rooms. Pick a theme. In my newest one I was thinking a lot of Castelvania. I haven't fully developed the theme yet, but I have a loose idea in my head. There's a more spaceagey section in the map that is supposed to look like an addition, which I hope tells a story that the site (probably more of a pyramid than a castle) has something of value for the UAC - that's why they've added a newer section.

[Breezeep]

Starting work on a map is a daily struggle to me.

[Li'l devil]

Yes,the most difficult part of making map is starting making a map.

Also, many people start making the map by creating the layout of the whole level. I think that's boring. It's better to start by making one room, detail it, place some monster and items, play through it, and, once you think you're done with this room, create another one and continue doing the same...

Also, don't plan anything. Plans don't usually work, atleast for me. I come up with most of my ideas spontaneously.

Yesterday (for me it was yesterday, atleast) I made myself continue working on one of my unfinished maps. I started with placing a couple of demons on it and then continued adding more things and features, and eventually, after about 2 hours of work, I made some serious improvements. Probably going to post screenshots soon.

[MrGlide]

I start on grid paper, some times I'll start with just a simple flow chart or sometimes I rough draph the level geometry and go from there in doombuilder.

[DooM_RO]

Good to see I'm not the only one struggling.

[scifista42]

ChekaAgent said:

Yes,the most difficult part of making map is starting making a map.

I'd say it's more like the opposite - starting a new map is the most easy part. The difficult part is continuing working on an already started map and getting it to a finished state.

[BrainMuncher]

I think they meant starting to work on a map that you already started. In that starting the work is hard, rather than starting the map.

[Li'l devil]

scifista42 said:

I'd say it's more like the opposite - starting a new map is the most easy part. The difficult part is continuing working on an already started map and getting it to a finished state.

My statement was a bit inaccurate. I meant the most difficult part is to force yourself to actually start making something. In that sence.

Upd: Brainmuncher, yes, exactly what I tried to say.

[scifista42]

Well, that doesn't apply to me - I could easily force myself to begin work on 20 maps a day and make a starting room and perhaps a couple more rooms and place a couple monsters into each one, but hardly force myself to continue working on any of them unless I kept some kind of special enthusiasm and inspiration. :)

[Quineotio]

scifista42 said:

Well, that doesn't apply to me - I could easily force myself to begin work on 20 maps a day and make a starting room and perhaps a couple more rooms and place a couple monsters into each one, but hardly force myself to continue working on any of them unless I kept some kind of special enthusiasm and inspiration. :)

Combine all the rooms into one map?

[NeedHealth]

Was it unreal editor that had negative mapping where you used a brush and just drew the playfield like on a painting? I've always thought that to be a better way to create maps. I don't have the knowledge to create an editor for doom based on that.

[purist]

scifista42 said:

Well, that doesn't apply to me - I could easily force myself to begin work on 20 maps a day and make a starting room and perhaps a couple more rooms and place a couple monsters into each one, but hardly force myself to continue working on any of them unless I kept some kind of special enthusiasm and inspiration. :)

ChekaAgent and scifista42 should collaborate :-)

[HavoX]

scifista42 said:

I'd say it's more like the opposite - starting a new map is the most easy part. The difficult part is continuing working on an already started map and getting it to a finished state.

This is pretty much accurate. For me however, it's coming up with an idea for a map that's the hardest part.

I've only made one map this year, and it's a single room with only one purpose... testing DECORATE and ACS (yup, I'm starting to learn how ACS works!) shit.

[yakfak]

I don't really wrestle with this concept anymore

ideas for maps and music and other creative forms constantly suggest themselves from the outside world, from conversations with friends or from daft dream episodes or from random idle word-play in the mind; the process of constructing them feels a lot like work in every case but once they're finished, if there's something of interest to them an audience of friends will appear, and you as the creator will come around on teh piece even if you initially resent it for coming out wrong or having been too much work

any random who feels your art doesn't match their vision needs to seriously think about why they thought they were in your audience at all

having fun during the process itself is a strange goal

ps. I think Kuchitsu is a good poster who reveals interesting things about creators. so many users here talk only about the technical

[SFoZ911]

I think you take mapping a little bit too serious tbh. It's a hobby for crying out loud, just make the things that you like and share it or don't share it.