DOOM is getting ripped and torn by negative Steam reviews

[rampancy]

well this is what happens when u try to please everyone. in the end no one is happy.

[Neutrino]

Thing is that fair number of people WILL be influenced by them, either by the red percentage on the store page or by the best rated and thus most visible reviews being negative (which is often the case even with games that have more that 70,80% positive reviews, and just show how easy it is to misuse entire scheme).
Which is why I believe that they simply can't stay as they are.

[PsychoGoatee]

rampancy said:

well this is what happens when u try to please everyone. in the end no one is happy.

That's actually not what it means. There are both negative and positive reviews, some people do like. I for example actually am happy, oddly enough. :P

Neutrino said:

Thing is that fair number of people WILL be influenced by them, either by the red percentage on the store page or by the best rated and thus most visible reviews being negative (which is often the case even with games that have more that 70,80% positive reviews, and just show how easy it is to misuse entire scheme).
Which is why I believe that they simply can't stay as they are.

It is true and unfortunate that some will just go by a common consensus number and not look into it themselve, but that also isn't a reason to censor people from being able to vote or express their opinion.

[Phml]

Steam user reviews are trash, I am frankly surprised that Valve hasn't removed them or at least performed massive overhaul of entire user review scheme by now (either by their own volition, or due to publisher urging as I cant imagine any of them being happy with the current state of things).

Censorship only benefits people interested in pushing garbage. That said, there are issues with Steam user reviews; a game with overwhelmingly negative reviews shouldn't have a "Mixed" rating, nor should a positive review be pinned on top over negative reviews with higher views and relevance percentage.

[PsychoGoatee]

Phml said:

Censorship only benefits people interested in pushing garbage. That said, there are issues with Steam user reviews; a game with overwhelmingly negative reviews shouldn't have a "Mixed" rating, nor should a positive review be pinned on top over negative reviews with higher views and relevance percentage.

A game with more negative than positive user reviews is not automatically garbage, and it's personal taste. Censorship is bad for a lot of reasons, our opinion on this particular video game isn't really connected to that topic though.

As for mixed, I think it has to be over 50% positive to be mixed. And if it's below 70% it goes from mostly positive to mixed. I know because Duke Nukem Forever was mostly positive at 70% for years, just recently it hit 69% and is mixed.

Doom beta is currently "mostly negative" with 37%. But still, that is 37% of reviewers who like it. I really like it and have not even voted. I'll review the full game when it's out.

[hardcore_gamer]

pro_zealot said:

Weapon dont feel powerful. They feel weak. They need upgrade in dmg x3 all of them.

I will never, ever, ever understand this complaint.

What exactly is so fun about being the one who wins in a firefight merely because you got to shot first? Because you do realize that's basically what would happen if this were done right? Do you want the super shotty to just casually one-shot people thus reducing the whole multiplayer to a contest on who gets to shoot first? Limiting weapon damage increases the skill ceiling. I would would like to keep it like that thank you.

EDIT: Oh, and the steam reviewers are full of shit.

I honestly hope this bullshit review bombing will not carry over into the full game. If this game bombs because ultra-conservative fanboys flood the game with negative reviews it would pretty much be a perfect example of how a fandom can sometimes ruin it's own franchise by having unrealistically high standards. And don't tell me that these loudmouths can't make a difference. If you knew nothing about Doom would you buy it if the steam store page had a review rating of mixed or lower because the Id ultra-fanboys had already review bombed it with bad ratings?

[BluePineapple72]

tuo said:

Still not sure that thing is the Arch Vile...there are other sources that show a different, more plausible Arch Vile, while the Arch-Arch-Vile could be something different in the story...btw: I am hyped as well

I was thinking the same think especially considering the giant 2x4 in his head

[DooM_RO]

Steam reviews in general are just as bad as Metacritic.

I fucking HATE people on the internet.

[hardcore_gamer]

Score is now down to mostly negative with a rating of 37%.

It's actually very possible that anyone not already familiar with Doom now won't even give it a shot because the Quake fanboys have already labeled it the worst game ever.

[BluePineapple72]

hardcore_gamer said:

Score is now down to mostly negative with a rating of 37%.

It's actually very possible that anyone not already familiar with Doom now won't even give it a shot because the Quake fanboys have already labeled it the worst game ever.

But that's just the steam crowd, there's still a shit ton of people over down yonder in console land who want to try out doom

[DooM_RO]

BUT THIS GAME ISN'T QUAKE. GOD.FUCKING.DAMMIT.

[Pencil of Doom]

DooM_RO said:

Steam reviews in general are just as bad as Metacritic.

That's why people shouldn't trust internet critics, they only give positive reviews if it's COD or something else similar.

[archvile82]

Neutrino said:

Steam user reviews are trash, I am frankly surprised that Valve hasn't removed them or at least performed massive overhaul of entire user review scheme by now (either by their own volition, or due to publisher urging as I cant imagine any of them being happy with the current state of things).

Doom Beta is a particularly bad case, as it is free for all, meaning that EVERYONE can download it and leave a "review" - and here we can see results of that.

I agree with this, Valve don't seem to care much about anything outside of DOTA2 and Counter Strike.

Look at half the crap games they allow for sale through green light, it's like they offer many services through their digital store but can't be assed with any QA. They come across as a bit clueless really wasting resources in developing steam machines and steam OS. It's hardly surprising AAA publishers have detached themselves from it by opening their own digital stores.

Sorry to go off topic.

[archvile82]

hardcore_gamer said:

I will never, ever, ever understand this complaint.

What exactly is so fun about being the one who wins in a firefight merely because you got to shot first? Because you do realize that's basically what would happen if this were done right? Do you want the super shotty to just casually one-shot people thus reducing the whole multiplayer to a contest on who gets to shoot first? Limiting weapon damage increases the skill ceiling. I would would like to keep it like that thank you.

EDIT: Oh, and the steam reviewers are full of shit.

I honestly hope this bullshit review bombing will not carry over into the full game. If this game bombs because ultra-conservative fanboys flood the game with negative reviews it would pretty much be a perfect example of how a fandom can sometimes ruin it's own franchise by having unrealistically high standards. And don't tell me that these loudmouths can't make a difference. If you knew nothing about Doom would you buy it if the steam store page had a review rating of mixed or lower because the Id ultra-fanboys had already review bombed it with bad ratings?

It's interesting because I noticed the negativity has slid onto some of the top gaming sites in the last week. Before we got to play it many gaming sites had and were saying how much fun it was to play ect. Since then this negative tidal wave appeared after the closed Beta and you then had IGN, PC gamer and Kotaku put up dodgy previews as if it had been written by these crazy veteran quake players.

I just ask myself are they doing it for click baiting ? Is it genuine thoughts or are they trying to fit in with the hardcore pc crowd ? It's just weird how it was getting some good feedback and then its kinda turned sour.

I personally don't take much notice in reviews, id rather experience it for myself. If I listened to the internet trashing I would have missed out on many good games.

[TheWizard]

I love how if it isn't like Quake then it's the worst fucking game ever, I wish people would review shit based off what it actually is. Seriously, these shitty never ending "early release" scam games get better reviews.

[MrHofmann]

Xerge said:

What I'm saying is that it's different to design a level that isn't meant for loadouts because you have to plan where each weapon is gonna be placed and why.
I mean I'm not saying that the current level design is bad, what I'm saying is that there is indeed something that adding weapons to the map would do, it would affect the way a level is planned and designed, besides the obvious which is not limiting your options and your arsenal to two weapons.

I honestly don't think id planned where to place each weapon before they made the maps in Quake 3, or while they were designing them, simply because in FFA, Duel and TDM you have 3 different item placement for those modes on each map. From my experience I never saw any rule to where to place which weapon, what I only noticed is that they are almost evenly spaced out like the megahealth and yellow and red armor. The whole strategic element of placing weapons throughout the level, I think its all in your head. I don't think loadouts have that much of an impact on level design, and if you took Heatwave(which isn't designed for weapon pickups) for example and reasonably placed all/some weapons throughout the map you could get a very good weapon placement.

[TheWizard]

Maybe id will just release a hardcore mode with quake physics and weapon pickups.

[Doom64hunter]

You know something's wrong when /v/ is more chill about a game than the reviews are.

I think what we're seeing here is the result of what happens when you allow anyone on Steam to make a review. One guy bandwagons off of the previous guy's opinion, and as such you're going to read the same regurgitated "opinion" over and over again.
The most repeated complaints range from "This plays nothing like Doom" to "This plays too much like Quake/Unreal Tournament" to "This plays nothing at all like Quake/Unreal Tournament" all the way to the usual COD/Halo comparisons.
It's the culmination of all retarded gamer opinions on Doom in one single page of reviews.

[Doomkid]

There are some things about the MP I would change, but it's far better than the Cleveland Steamer community would have you believe.

Spoiler

lol @ Quake fans bashing this game, Doom has always had better deathmatch so if it's multiplayer they're interested in they've been on the wrong boat the whole time anyway (:

I'm gonna get roasted for saying this.

My opinion is that Quake actually changed too much of what makes Doom DM so good way back when. I mean it was still fun, but the "ugh" a lot of Quake fans are feeling when they look at this - I did that same "ugh" in the mid 00's when I first tried Quake multiplayer after hearing it was "better than Doom2's". The only thing this game seems to be missing to make it "properly" Doomy is player speed. I welcome a lack of Quake influence, to be frank.

Edit: I did warm to Quake after some time, but I still never thought it surpassed old Doom. I'd go as far as to say the Quake series is 2nd only to Doom if we're talking deathmatch.

[LittleBurger]

You may find a few well thought out reviews on steam (both negative and positive reviews), but the majority of them aren't well thought out on either side.

[BluePineapple72]

Exactly! Whenever it comes to doom DM ^ doomkid knows best ^

[rampancy]

well quake dm has a much bigger following than doom dm, a lot more people have played quake/2/3 dm online than ever played doom dm over ipx or whatever it was called.

[BluePineapple72]

Ok just played it, i like it a lot more than the closed beta, I'm sure they'll do a classic mode, they have too.
Also FoV customization on consoles is a godsend

[Xerge]

Hofmann said:

The whole strategic element of placing weapons throughout the level, I think its all in your head.

"Location-based DM allows players to always know where they are. You may not be able to figure out how to get somewhere else fast, but you immediately know your location. These maps are not free-flowing as in circular or linear maps, but instead are made up of many unique identifiable areas. Each area should have some distinct combat areas or mini themes included in it. For example, in dm3 from Quake is a water area for swimming, a thin staircase for vertical fighting, and a computer room made for close fighting. Each area has a special weapon or power-up that fits the environment. These maps are great for team games."

gamasutra.com/view/feature/131767/secrets_of_the_sages_level_design.php?print=1

[archvile82]

Well stone me, even the BBC have a report on it.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-36052742

Basically saying its good but doesn't feel like a doom game, more like quake. What exactly should a doom game feel like ? of course the MP is going to feel different to the single player campaign (I presume that is how he is comparing it ? if not is he comparing it to doom 3 MP or doom 1&2 in a 2.5d engine which would obviously feel different).

Quake is a evolution of doom and by the same studio, it will have similarities in the playstyle.

Do people think things through before making a comment ?

[Almonds]

i'll pull a cognitive dissonance exception to simply sate all these 'quake shill' bashing by inadequately butting in to say that

Spoiler

the game has a planned hard competitive FFA mode with weapon spawns, and a strafejump/run and a rocket jump mutator

ure are welcum

[Xaser]

I wonder how much of the backlash is "this doesn't feel like classic Doom" versus "this doesn't feel like what I imagine classic Doom probably is, since I haven't played it." :P

In seriousness, a curious thought: I wonder how much of the review base is from folks who wouldn't have bought the game (and, consequently, wouldn't have left a review) in the first place? No evidence or data on that, but it's a goofy thought at any rate.

re:The Game itself, it's hella fun, so long as you don't expect it to be anything other than what it is.

[Clonehunter]

I feel like the lack of strategy of finding weapons scattered around has been replaced with the strategy of constantly having to switch between two guns for combos, thus having to find the right scenario that works. It's not close to flawless, but I welcome this change of pace. It's sort of like TF2's Demoman class, where to make the best out of your use you have to know how to use the Grenade launcher and Sticky launcher in conjunction with each other. You're constantly juggling between two primary-type weapons to blast foes with.

It's almost unique. The game isn't trying to be Quake, or UT, or Halo, or CoD, or any of that. It's not event trying to be classic Doom. It's aiming for something different, and for whatever reason no one cares or sees that. They went in with their expectations, and from the get-go had it in their minds that if "This doesn't fit what I wanted to a T it's going to suck and if I use a lot of words and use circle reasoning and make unfair comparisons I'll seem smart and my boner will grow." NuDoom is a blend of different MP types, and while it could still use some fixing, I'm actually okay with where it's at, if only because I think I understand what it's trying to do and what it's not trying to do. These Steam reviews are pointless, as it's being assaulted by a toxic crowd of people who went in with expectations that were far too different than what the game was.

Now, one can argue that they too know what the game is and isn't so far, and then explain why they don't personally like it. They can also describe why they don't think it's "good" or why they don't think it's "bad" or whatever. That's fine. But the comparisons need to stop, as they're ludicrous at best.

Some of the complaints I'm seeing are hardly noteworthy, and just seem like silly nitpicking by retards who think they know what they're talking about.

"Ewwww! It has customization! This is so juvenile and stupid! Ew, you can taunt! This game doesn't need any humor, oh god it's so forced EUUGH! Everyone's gun and character should look EXACTLY THE SAME because THAT"S WHAT REAL DOOM IS where everyone looks the same and no one can look different!!!1 UUUGH why is that guy pink?? That's totally not Doom I don't want that person to add flair to their character because that assaults me on a personal levels and offends me as an AVID DOOM FAN SINCE 2012 LIFE LONG AMIRIGHTE???////"

Please. The unlocks and the customization and the taunts -- These do not hinder the gameplay whatsoever. Even the hack modules don't break anything. People seem to be picking on these features just because they didn't exist originally. But why the FUCK care? Seriously. Colors, armors, whatever, they don't break the game. They alter gameplay in no way. And the funny thing is, everyone's trying to compare it to arena squadrons which have, historically, allowed you to customize to a small degree. Even the original Quake allowed you to change the colors of Ranger's uniform. Quake II added multiple character models of males and females and alternate skins for all them. Quake III had a huge roster of characters, all of which came with team colored skins you could play with (So did UT). Those games also featured tons of mods for new player models. Jedi Academy, while note technically an arena shooter per say, also had an ingame character creator which was well received. Not having customization does not speak of maturity, but seems like a very cerebral step backwards, throwing us back into a time where you could only be green, red, blue, or gray/indigo. What's the benefit there again?

Again, valid concerns are performance issues, balancing issues and some weapons not being very useful (Thus why have them?), DLC being mainly focused on Multiplayer (And having been announced already) which includes what could be a Pay 2 Win weapon, some comment about Bethesda removing criticism from some places [citation needed], the character's base speed, maps, and a lack of mod support (Though honestly I think SnapMap will be enough. SnapMap even has DLC confirmed. I really can't see anyone complaining about mod support actually planning to get gung-ho on using a hefty editor to hammer out their own maps. Remember that Doom 3 never did have a massive scene, and most of the maps I saw were Singleplayer anyways. No one really touched that game's multiplayer). What's sillier is people looking at multiplayer and using it as the deciding factor to their purchase, despite a six hour campaign and whatever SnapMap has to offer. But I guess some people are more concerned with multiplayer than others. But hey, at least they're trying to make up for the colossal failure that was Doom 3's multiplayer component. At least the fact it existed allowed some rather good co-op mods to be produced, which is probably some of the only active multiplayer I've seen for that game.

[BluePineapple72]

Almonds said:

i'll pull a cognitive dissonance exception to simply sate all these 'quake shill' bashing by inadequately butting in to say that

Spoiler

the game has a planned hard competitive FFA mode with weapon spawns, and a strafejump/run and a rocket jump mutator

ure are welcum

Is the foreal?

[Almonds]

check 'em PMs