DOOM is getting ripped and torn by negative Steam reviews

[Mechazawa]

Get mad. But, but the multiplayer seems to basically be <insert cal of duty version here>. Fairly forgettable.

Though, who cares? The real meat of a doom game comes from its mapping; we have to see how well the mapping community will be for doom 4. If its shit then the game will probably go the way Doom 3 did, something forgotten. The mapping tool looked 'interesting' enough, but if there is no way to manually map for doom outside of this "connect the dots with preset pieces" then I would say there isn't much hope.

Honestly, imho, doom 4 should have been doom 2 with better graphics and internals. What in the core gameplay of Doom 2 needed replacing? I can't think of anything.

[magma86]

I dont know if this has been posted before, but a video from totalbiscuit. I agree with him on most things. What you guys think? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ztdKziK_aAs

[HellVain]

Woah woah woah...the multiplayer wasnt developed by id?

[tuo]

HellVain said:

Woah woah woah...the multiplayer wasnt developed by id?

I somehow don't get the joke :(

Of course it wasn't.

[ChickenOrBeef]

HellVain said:

Woah woah woah...the multiplayer wasnt developed by id?

Campaign - id Software
Multiplayer - Certain Affinity
SnapMap - Escalation Studios


It's worth noting that the head of Escalation Studios worked on Final Doom and is a veteran Doom mapper. Also, Escalation Studios is working in id's office during the development of the game. So Escalation Studios is basically an extension of id. Certain Affinity on the other hand is not.

[gameragodzilla]

magma86 said:

I dont know if this has been posted before, but a video from totalbiscuit. I agree with him on most things. What you guys think? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ztdKziK_aAs

Watching his video and reflecting on some of my own experiences having played the Alpha, Closed Beta, and Open Beta for a grand total of like 30 something hours, I've come to this conclusion: Doom doesn't really suffer from an identity crisis. Instead, it's designed as sort of a "babby's first arena FPS" for new players.

The loadout system is used so new players can more easily spawn with a weapon they like. The melee system is used as a smooth way to transition between shooting and melee as opposed to the relatively clunky need to switch to a dedicated melee weapon. Advanced movement techniques like strafe jumping, rocket jumping and the like have been replaced with the double jump and mantling, which more or less achieves what those other techniques do (further and higher jumps, getting into out of the way alcoves for more supplies and powerups, getting to a certain area in a quicker fashion etc.). Now of course the double jump and mantling feature is nowhere near as versatile or as advanced as stuff like strafe jumping, but at the same time it's also much easier to perform for new players, being based mainly just on timing the second jump rather than the advanced movement the other techniques use.

It's really an FPS that has a lot of conveniences and simplified mechanics for new players while still keeping the core basics of a run and gun, pickups and power ups based arena FPS, which probably also explains why new players who don't have a lot of experience with arena shooters really enjoy it while people used to the more advanced arena shooters don't.

And really, I don't see much wrong with that. I think a classic mode that's purely a Quake 3 style arena FPS might be a good mode to include for the hardcore fans, but as TB explained, if you really want a straight up arena shooter, just play Quake Live. Doom probably works best as an introduction to the concept of an arena shooter to new players, giving them some crutches to keep them from being frustrated, and then hopefully getting into the more advanced FPS later on.

I dunno, I'm just rambling about my thoughts on the game based on his comments and my experiences.

TL;DR: Doom is "babby's first arena FPS" to give new players a taste of what arena FPS is like while still giving some crutches and conveniences so new players can get into it.

[HavoX]

ChickenOrBeef said:

Multiplayer - Certain Affinity

I am at a loss of words here... o_o

[BluePineapple72]

They sure have a certain affinity for making bad multiplayers

[Xerge]

Whatever, the game at least deserves a classic Arena mode in which the Rocket Launcher can actually feel like the rocket launcher, I mean it's Doom, if they did their research they should know there are a lot of classic arena fans in the Doom community, I'd be really surprised if they don't add that mode so I hope Almonds is right, if they don't we will probably see another wave of negative reviews and disappointments regarding MP when the game is released.

[HellVain]

ChickenOrBeef said:

Campaign - id Software
Multiplayer - Certain Affinity
SnapMap - Escalation Studios


It's worth noting that the head of Escalation Studios worked on Final Doom and is a veteran Doom mapper. Also, Escalation Studios is working in id's office during the development of the game. So Escalation Studios is basically an extension of id. Certain Affinity on the other hand is not.

That explains alot.

[Jon]

ChickenOrBeef said:

Campaign - id Software
Multiplayer - Certain Affinity
SnapMap - Escalation Studios


It's worth noting that the head of Escalation Studios worked on Final Doom and is a veteran Doom mapper. Also, Escalation Studios is working in id's office during the development of the game. So Escalation Studios is basically an extension of id. Certain Affinity on the other hand is not.

ID certainly worked on snapmap at some point, since Carmack did.

[Arctangent]

gameragodzilla said:

It's really an FPS that has a lot of conveniences and simplified mechanics for new players while still keeping the core basics of a run and gun, pickups and power ups based arena FPS, which probably also explains why new players who don't have a lot of experience with arena shooters really enjoy it while people used to the more advanced arena shooters don't.

Y'know, that really does explain why a lot of the complaints that weren't "omg call of doom by the way I have never actually seen a call of duty game in my life but they're bad" really seemed like the equivalent of the whole "MUH SKILL CAP" niche in DOTA.

Sure, there's other types of complaints, but these two seem to be the most prevalent by far.

[DooM_RO]

Why weren't Splash Damage chosen?

[Dav_NW]

Ok i played the Beta for 6-7 hours in the whole weekend and a bit today. The gunplay and the maps are OK. It was fun for a while, but then the unbalanced stuff, the sound glitches and the lack of music started to hinder the experience.

What would you do if you just cant make a rip-off MP mode of Quake 3/Unreal and neither a rip-off MP mode of Cod/Halo? You make something between, a PROPER mix of Old-school and Modern. This MP tries to do that, but it fails misserably because the Certain affinity crew are a bunch of incompetent and uninspired assholes. I dont care if this MP dies in 1 month or 2. I just hope Id and Escalation will take all the glory. Bethesda and CA will likely grow up their bad reputations.

[MrGlide]

DooM_RO said:

Why weren't Splash Damage chosen?

it would have been even worse, have you played dirty bomb? it's not that great, and their game before that (brink) was a total blunder. I'v no faith in splash damage anymore.

[hardcore_gamer]

The think the most concerning thing is that lots of people don't seem to know or care about the single player. Been reading a lot of "will not buy" comments from people who have tried the beta. Even Totalhalibut has said that he isn't sure if he wants to bother with the SP campaign after playing the beta.

[MrGlide]

hardcore_gamer said:

The think the most concerning thing is that lots of people don't seem to know or care about the single player. Been reading a lot of "will not buy" comments from people who have tried the beta. Even Totalhalibut has said that he isn't sure if he wants to bother with the SP campaign after playing the beta.

If the campaign is good, people will come play it. When it comes out people will see what it is. It's not like these people say, oh well, I said I wouldn't buy it so now I can't.(edit) no matter what, the gaming news outlets will hump Doom's release to death weather it's good or bad, wich will bring plublicity to the game.

[ChickenOrBeef]

Regardless of whether you agree with the flood of negative feedback or not, I have to admit it's nice to see such a strong reaction. It would be much worse if the Beta came out and no one cared. But at least people still care about Doom and Quake.

[MrGlide]

ChickenOrBeef said:

Regardless of whether you agree with the flood of negative feedback or not, I have to admit it's nice to see such a strong reaction. It would be much worse if the Beta came out and no one cared. But at least people still care about Doom and Quake.

Speaking of quake, I doubt it'll happen, but I really hope we go back to quake 1's universe for the next game, I enjoyed q1 far more then q2, or q4. I bet after this is done that's what bethesda will wan't id to move onto next.

[TheWizard]

ChickenOrBeef said:

Regardless of whether you agree with the flood of negative feedback or not, I have to admit it's nice to see such a strong reaction. It would be much worse if the Beta came out and no one cared. But at least people still care about Doom and Quake.

True, very good point.

[Mechazawa]

gameragodzilla said:

Advanced movement techniques like strafe jumping...getting to a certain area in a quicker fashion etc.

There is more to it than that, strafe jumping allowed extremely fast movement which made you harder to hit. If I recall in the old quake days you could get over 100% speed boost from multiple and sustained strafe jumps. Learning to do that was the difference between being alive and not being alive. A bit off topic; but it was also basically required in Team Fortress which had very high level play at one time.

[hardcore_gamer]

Am I the only one here who fucking despises the crazy bunny jumping in Quake? I actually like the fact that this new Doom doesn't allow players to just fly across the map. It's a nice middle between the slowness of modern fps and arena shooters like Quake.

[ChickenOrBeef]

hardcore_gamer said:

Am I the only one here who fucking despises the crazy bunny jumping in Quake? I actually like the fact that this new Doom doesn't allow players to just fly across the map. It's a nice middle between the slowness of modern fps and arena shooters like Quake.

I love the speed and maneuverability of Quake 3, but I've also never been a fan of the constant bunny hopping. I'll hop around a bit when I'm in a duel, but doing it for the entire match is just annoying. If you're a serious competitive player, then you have to do what you gotta do though of course.

[Silverforte]

I never was a big pc arena shooter guy, the only PC multiplayer shooter I played consistently was half life deathmatch, which was a ton of fun. You wanted speed? The gauss cannon had you covered. But aside from that I was primarily a console player. Maybe this is a reason why I really like the doom multi? I dunno.

[Kontra Kommando]

Kontra Kommando said:

First Impressions of Beta:

I just got done playing a couple team deathmatch rounds on my brother's xbox one. I thought it was pretty fun. It sort of reminds me of AVP (2010) Deathmatch, but better executed for fluidity.The demon transformation part reminds me of when someone chose to play as the Predator in AVP (2010) Deathmatch. Aesthetically, its not earth-shattering, but I can accept it. Players willingly are choosing to create those obnoxious colors for armor and weapons.

Second Impressions; first on PC:

I decided to download the beta for my PC last night. I was surprised at how well it ran, considering the fact my GPU is not very powerful.

Its not worth it to use the custom colors for the weapons; they are all plain ugly.

Armor looks like halo, which is not good, because it should look like DOOM.

I do think the environments are pretty good.

Somethings I didn't quite understand:

For example, I shot someone at least 3 times with a rocket launder, and they just ate it, and killed me with the a double-barrel shot at point blank range.

Another time, I was blasting someone in their face with the plasma rifle, and he was able to be completely unfazed by it, and killed me with a melee attack.

The Plasma Rifle is probably my favorite weapon. ( It works just like the Pulse Rifle in my Aliens mod; credit to sgt. mark and jdredalert)

[Voros]

Speaking of the armor being like Halo, then why don't id just drop that "sci-fi, advanced" and "japanese robot" armors and stick to something more simpler and gothic.
Like the Knight and that Demon armor. They certainly have more impact IMO nowadays (think: high tech base with an armored Knight shooting plasma everywhere <3)

The rest can be thrown away (seriously, that one armor with so many eyes...what?)

Gives the game a whole new aspect, in terms of looks.
The loadouts, lobby, etc are another thing.

[HellVain]

Voros said:

Speaking of the armor being like Halo, then why don't id just drop that "sci-fi, advanced" and "japanese robot" armors and stick to something more simpler and gothic.
Like the Knight and that Demon armor. They certainly have more impact IMO nowadays (think: high tech base with an armored Knight shooting plasma everywhere <3)

The rest can be thrown away (seriously, that one armor with so many eyes...what?)

Gives the game a whole new aspect, in terms of looks.
The loadouts, lobby, etc are another thing.

Doom has always been "sci-fi,advanced" actually, the simpler and gothic thing was quake 1s thing. Also like i said, everything has already been done to death, look up Hellgate: london and you'll see futuristic medieval knights with guns and swords fighting demons from hell (no seriously) in pseudo futuristic London. Doom just has a different design to those since the knights on hellgate were based on full plated 16th century knights. The Japanese robots thing? Thats the only original take on it since there is currently no fps game with a gundam vibe to it.

[Voros]

I know Doom is sci-fi and all, but I feel like Doom 2016 is taking that theme and overhauling it, like Halo. I'm just saying id should tone things down a bit and mix some Hellish components in them.

And again, some of them are just plain weird. And generic.

[HellVain]

Voros said:

I know Doom is sci-fi and all, but I feel like Doom 2016 is taking that theme and overhauling it, like Halo. I'm just saying id should tone things down a bit and mix some Hellish components in them.

And again, some of them are just plain weird. And generic.

So i guess pentagrams, cults, human sacrifices, bloody corridors, demons , and hell itself isnt hellish enough for you. Whst youre basically saying is that you want the same type of marines that are similar to the aliens colonial marines with space helmets which basically what the origibal doonguy was designed from. And not the fully armored marines and security personel that is stationed on a very hostile barren planet which has the chance to either suffocate you and fill your lungs with radioactive dust from exposure to the sun not to mention the weapons testing in that place. I mean what are the odds of going crazy in isolation with a bunch of heavy weaponry right?

[Voros]

HellVain said:

So i guess pentagrams, cults, human sacrifices, bloody corridors, demons , and hell itself isnt hellish enough for you. Whst youre basically saying is that you want the same type of marines that are similar to the aliens colonial marines with space helmets which basically what the origibal doonguy was designed from. And not the fully armored marines and security personel that is stationed on a very hostile barren planet which has the chance to either suffocate you and fill your lungs with radioactive dust from exposure to the sun not to mention the weapons testing in that place. I mean what are the odds of going crazy in isolation with a bunch of heavy weaponry right?

I said to tone it down, not make it primitive.
By Hellish, I meant for the armors not the game.

Let's take that armor with the many eyes.looks man made. So what use are all those eyes for?

You tell me by looking at just one of the armors that seem man made and think of Halo.

Just tone it down a bit. Look at the Doomguy armor. It looks simple yet we know its not.
Reduce those edges. Smooth it out a bit more. Take some unecessary parts out. All this, but not too much of it. That's all.

And the Hellish thing, some more like the Knight armor (you know its pretty sweet)

Japanese robots make me think of these: Ugly. Unrealistic. Absurd coloring. Fragile. PLASTIC. Cheap.

I said generic because society grew up with Halo's sci-fi armor, so people base other scifi armors to Halo's ones, thus people think they are generic "butsince Halo introduced them, its unique for Halo".