Cyberpussy

[Unterspahgenzich]

ArchangelOfHell said:

Cyberdemon on Ultra Violence was no fuc%ing joke.. the second part that is. I have no idea what its like on normal. I willing to bet your going to die atleast once on UV.

I played on UV and it was easy as shit. No idea what you're talking about

Also I fought the Hell Guards yesterday and that was infinitely more interesting and more difficult fight.

Why can no one seem to get the cyberdemon right?

[ArchangelOfHell]

Once you understand his attacks it gets easier, but I mean the first fight is totally a good one. Took alot of damage to kill, didn't really use the bfg though.. Just one of those swipes nearly kills you on UV. Thought it was a good challenge.

[twinspectre]

I didn't supported the game, because I knew it will be a dumbed down game which is common nowadays sadly, when DO people realize we need to be respected?
If I want to fight a BadAss Boss, I expect him to kick my butt
this crap is insulting our inteligence, people let's demand more challenging games even on Normal mode, without being handholded, without tutorial, without AutoRegenHealth, without checkpoints every 5 sec, without dumbed down gameplay, give us a challenge FFS, let me feel the sense of reward

[Arctangent]

twinspectre said:

I complain about a lack of respect when it's super clear I have absolutely no respect for myself and just want to be lambasted over making stuff up about something I know nothing about

If you say so, man.

[Graphic_Delusions]

I completed the game on Ultra Violence yesterday and found the end boss to be the easiest out of them all.

As it has already been said, it gets easier once you know and predict their next attacks.

[Arctangent]

I mean, that's kind of Doom in a nutshell. Hell, that's a defining point of game design Doom has over a lot of shooters, modern or no: everything has enough wind-up to give you a chance to react and everything's pretty predictable.

If anything, it'd be unDoomish if you didn't get a good tell to what was going to happen next.

[Graphic_Delusions]

Arctangent said:

I mean, that's kind of Doom in a nutshell. Hell, that's a defining point of game design Doom has over a lot of shooters, modern or no: everything has enough wind-up to give you a chance to react and everything's pretty predictable.

If anything, it'd be unDoomish if you didn't get a good tell to what was going to happen next.

I see what you mean there.

The Cyberdemon / Spider Mastermind in the original DOOM just go for the kill, whereas now they go through an attack cycle you can memorise to gain the advantage.

I actually preferred fighting the new Cyberdemon in the classic level you unlock. At least there it was behaving more like the original than going through these timed cycle attacks.

[VGamingJunkie]

AwesomeO-789 said:

Why can no one seem to get the cyberdemon right?

Well, even the Classic Cyberdemon is a joke once you nail his pattern and bobbing and weaving with the SSG makes it a ridiculous easy endeavor. The only thing that makes the Classic one so threatening is the high amount of damage each rocket delivers if you slip up and get blasted in the face by one. The only time I ever have any real trouble is PWADs that restrict the hell out of your movement.

[LittleBurger]

Graphic_Delusions said:

I see what you mean there.

The Cyberdemon / Spider Mastermind in the original DOOM just go for the kill, whereas now they go through an attack cycle you can memorise to gain the advantage.

I actually preferred fighting the new Cyberdemon in the classic level you unlock. At least there it was behaving more like the original than going through these timed cycle attacks.

I sort of like the varied attacks they have now, but they could be more random in the order they are used. Having some other demons as well wouldn't hurt, and would probably add something to the fights.

[Tracer]

Not watching it. I started to, but then noped the fuck out of there. I want to be surprised.

[Krimson Madness]

I had more trouble with this cyberdemon than i had before because this guy is less predictable and i died a couple of times, this cyberdemon is much better than i expected and i like the design more than before.

[jazzmaster9]

AwesomeO-789 said:

Why can no one seem to get the cyberdemon right?

Assuming the Classic Cyberdemon was hard to begin with, which it is not.
The New Cybie had more variety to it's attacks.

[Deatheye]

the new one is much harder than the classic cyberdemon

[Traysandor]

So I just fought the new Cyberdemon myself. The first phase was not that hard, but the second one took a number of tries for me to finally kill him.

And even when I finally did slay him, it was pretty close. Like, 4 HP close, haha.

It feels to me that this Cyberdemon version has much more HP than the original variations in Classic. It can also tank BFG blasts much easier than the classic version could. And yeah, once you know the attacks, it's much easier to deal with, but still tough. Not sure how to avoid his massive energy attack (The giant railgun one) besides staggering it though.

Personally, I think this guy could beat Classic Cyberdemon, but unless someone wants to make a mod for us to fine out, I suppose we'll never know for sure.

[StarFyre]

cyberdemon back in the original doom games were easy. beat that boss on first try. how is he hard?

you want hard bosses - play dark souls 3.

the doom bosses aren't them...

this boss atleast has more stuff than just being a magnet for circle strafing and side strafing while firing.

[Deatheye]

StarFyre said:

cyberdemon back in the original doom games were easy. beat that boss on first try. how is he hard?

you want hard bosses - play dark souls 3.

the doom bosses aren't them...

this boss atleast has more stuff than just being a magnet for circle strafing and side strafing while firing.

and dark souls bosses aren't just rolling around and hitting them?

[Pile_o_gunz]

I just beat him on Ultra-Violence I thought it was a good challenging fight.

[scalliano]

First time I beat the new Cybie it was a double-KO.

Gutted.

[Jaxxoon R]

Deatheye said:

and dark souls bosses aren't just rolling around and hitting them?

There's really nothing the original cyberdemon itself ever does to stop you from just circle strafing constantly. Dark Souls bosses at the least require timing when to roll and when to attack, or they'll curbstomp you.

[tuo]

Deatheye said:

and dark souls bosses aren't just rolling around and hitting them?

Only if you know their attack pattern, the range of their attacks and their hitboxes, as well as beeing able to manage your own stamina (as you can't "roll around" endlessly, and even if, you won't be able to hit them afterwards).

Basically I'd say: hard to compare. (and yeah, Soulsborne bosses can easily be killed by just rolling, and then hitting, and then rolling, and then hitting. Try it, it's fun! (not, because it doesn't work)).

[Deatheye]

I think that works pretty well - and I compared the dark souls bosses with the new doom bosses, I should have specified that

once you know what the bosses do, every boss is more or less easy, no matter what game it is

[tuo]

Deatheye said:

I think that works pretty well - and I compared the dark souls bosses with the new doom bosses, I should have specified that

once you know what the bosses do, every boss is more or less easy, no matter what game it is

That's true! As soon as you know the attack pattern and how he starts it, you have a major advantage over the AI.

I still think that the NuDoom Bosses are "more fun" than the classic ones, which used to be bullet sponges which much too little healthpoints or something like those (IMHO) stupid DPS battles in classic Wolfenstein. Or that strange Boss battle in Doom 3: ROE where you didn't know if you inflict damage at all until the fight ended.

I would have been happy to see more of them, and I would have been happy to see the Cyberdemon as a regular enemy in hell (it is quite obvious he can only walk on a plain surface, that's why I think he isn't in SnapMap), but still, it would have been an awesome arena fight in one of the later Levels with him beeing the harrasser in the middle while stuff spawns arround you.

Maybe they also just take the "fire argent gun" script from the last boss, and put it into an Arachnotron. I wouldn't mind if they don't have a full IK setup for them to walk slopes/stairs, just place them correctly, and they can work beautifully.

Overall, I like that someone brought back a certain type of boss fights to FPS, even with health bars (I know many dislike them because that is "not old school"), and with many different attack patterns.

IMHO, they are on the right track with what they are doing, and I wouldn't be surprised if we see more bosses like that in AAA FPS soon.

[Rathori]

IMO, the one thing that "pussyfies" the boss fights is the boss health bar. If you want a proper old-school feeling to boss fights, you should disable that, along with glory kill highlighting. Now you can enjoy getting your ass kicked/kicking bosses ass without knowing how much health he's got left, and use your own judgement as to when it is time to make the finishing more, rather than have the game point it out for you, or tell you "ok, you fired 20 rockets and got him down to 1/3 health, fire 10 more and you're done" (numbers made up). Not knowing how close the bad guy is to dying makes a big difference in how you perceive the fight.

Anyway, I fought the new Cyberdemon on UV with boss health bar and glory kill highlighting disabled. And you know what? - it felt just right. I died once or twice when I failed to dodge some his new attacks on the first try, I spent literally all my gauss cannon ammo and about half the rockets, I had to figure out how dodge all of his attacks both in the open and in the corridor. I had fun. I also didn't use BFG or the infinite ammo rune. It was a good fight.

[jazzmaster9]

Rathori said:

IMO, the one thing that "pussyfies" the boss fights is the boss health bar.

I don't know how that pussyfies anything since arcade games have doing that for decades.
For monsters with High Health, such as bosses, A health bar helps a ton.

[Rathori]

jazzmaster9 said:

For monsters with High Health, such as bosses, A health bar helps a ton.

And that's exactly how it pussyfies the fight. You can judge how much health the boss has got left in relation to how much health and ammo you've got. Boss fights feel way more intense when you can't. That's the old DOOM way and that's the way most FPS games do it anyway.

Also, how the hell would you know how much health the boss has anyway? It just makes no sense, unless you can do the same for every other monster, and in DOOM - you can't.

[jazzmaster9]

Rathori said:

And that's exactly how it pussyfies the fight. You can judge how much health the boss has got left in relation to how much health and ammo you've got. Boss fights feel way more intense when you can't.

Having a health bar does not make dodging the projectiles any easier though, it's all about the twitch skills.

Rathori said:

That's the old DOOM way and that's the way most FPS games do it anyway.

Well Doom 4 is yet to make me feel like it's like "most FPS games".

[Rathori]

jazzmaster9 said:

Having a health bar does not make dodging the projectiles any easier though, it's all about the twitch skills.

True. It doesn't actually change the objective difficulty of the fight at all. But it does affect how intense the fight feels, though, subjectively.

jazzmaster9 said:

Well Doom 4 is yet make me feel like it's like "most FPS games".

Well, it feels like a classic FPS, and those didn't have the boss health bar last time I checked.
More arcade action games and platformers have nothing to do with FPS anyway. The only exceptions I can think of would be Serious Sam and Painkiller (not sure about this one), but those went way farther into arcade territory.

[Deatheye]

Actually it feels more intense to me when I know the boss is almost down - that's the point where I often do mistakes and ruin it

[tuo]

Deatheye said:

Actually it feels more intense to me when I know the boss is almost down - that's the point where I often do mistakes and ruin it

That's when you REALLY learn the meaning of "don't get greedy" ;) Been there, done that too many times in Soulsborne. "Just one more hit, just one more hit, nah, won't back away to refill stamina, I hit him 68 times, I'll gonna land that one final blow anyway" => YOU DIED

But I can see the positive in both variations. Knowing how much health the boss has left, and not knowing. But I think that's the beauty of Doom 2016, that you can change quite some stuff to tailor the game towards your liking. It was a pleasant surprise from id to include those options.

[Deatheye]

tuo said:

That's when you REALLY learn the meaning of "don't get greedy" ;) Been there, done that too many times in Soulsborne. "Just one more hit, just one more hit, nah, won't back away to refill stamina, I hit him 68 times, I'll gonna land that one final blow anyway" => YOU DIED

But I can see the positive in both variations. Knowing how much health the boss has left, and not knowing. But I think that's the beauty of Doom 2016, that you can change quite some stuff to tailor the game towards your liking. It was a pleasant surprise from id to include those options.

haha yes :D

yep absolutely, they did a great job with all those settings