John Carmack is not thanked in the end credits

[joeking]

According to John Carmack's Twitter and comments from Mick Gordon via Twitch stream, John was "involved" in some way, shape or form with SnapMap. With that said, we can speculate how much direct involvement Carmack had with Doom 2016, but it's unquestionable how much influence he's had with the Doom franchise and the technologies if ran off of. For example, id Tech 6 (which Doom 2016 runs on) would simply not exist if it weren't for John Carmack laying the groundwork with id Tech 5 (Rage, Wolfenstein). We could stretch the genealogy of id Tech even further to the 90's, which again, a lot of this 3D technology used in these games were pioneered by him.

I'm just a little salty there wasn't a simple "Thanks".

[Jill]

Blame the lawsuit with zenimax

Also while on thank you messages did they thank sergant mark 4 or any other doom modder? Cause I feel like they should.

[HavoX]

mistercow said:

Blame the lawsuit with zenimax

Heh, I was thinking the same thing.

mistercow also said:

...did they thank sergeant mark 4 or any other doom modder? Cause I feel like they should.

Why?

[Jill]

HavoX said:

Why?

I think without brutal doom the doom 2016 we got wouldnt happen. But now that I think about it I can understand why they didnt with all the racist out bursts he had online

[TheMightyHeracross]

Are you kidding me? Doom '16 was in development long before Brutal Doom came out.

[Jill]

TheMightyHeracross said:

Are you kidding me? Doom '16 was in development long before Brutal Doom came out.

Doom 4 was in development hell for a really long time (around the time rage was in development.) In 2013 kotaku put out this article and the game was rebooted after that. So it is likely that brutal doom inspired this game

[sponge]

There's an interview somewhere talking about the origins of the glory kill system coming from a system in the game that was pre-reboot.

[Trycon]

Being inspired doesn't mean they should thank sgtmarkiv.

[doom_is_great]

Of course they took some inspiration from Brutal Doom. At the very least, Brutal Doom demonstrated what a lot of people wanted: hard core, fast paced, brutal, bloody action.

[DMPhobos]

mistercow said:

Doom 4 was in development hell for a really long time (around the time rage was in development.) In 2013 kotaku put out this article and the game was rebooted after that. So it is likely that brutal doom inspired this game

You make it sound like as if this game existance is thank's to brutal doom. Over the top violence was always a part of the old games, also the glory kills and the finishers in BD work different. Brutal Doom might have some influence during development, but i think that the new game owes more to the doom comic, than to BD

[Jannak]

I guess what you're all trying to imply here that if Brutal Doom didn't exist, the version of Doom 4 we would have gotten would have been like this?

[Chezza]

You gotta ask how they could even go this far into the realms of CoD (even closer to Homefront imo) before realizing how Doom it ain't. I mean, there wasn't a single Demon shown in that video.

The bedroom guitar practicing for the music makes it funny.

[Madolite]

Maybe John Carmack didn't want to be thanked.

Also, it's the actual making of the mod that's hard. Not the initial concept, that comes a dime a dozen. So be thankful for the modder's hard work in making their mods, when you're explicitly using them. But don't get arrogant and think that the idea behind the mod was anything special. It's really not.

[Zed]

I'm not sure they need to actually thank Sgt. Mark, but from what I can see, it's undeniable there was some influence from Brutal Doom. I think we can all recall the reaction of the crowd when Doomguy makes the first "glory kill" in the E3 conference. I think it's fair to say that most people thought about BD when they saw that.

[VGamingJunkie]

Trycon said:

Being inspired doesn't mean they should thank sgtmarkiv.

Also, SgtMarkIV didn't invent the concept of brutal finishing moves. Ahem?

I hate it when people think you should credit the example they happen to know about rather than where the concept ACTUALLY came from. If anything, Bethesda/ID should be thanking Midway.

[Jill]

Jannak said:

I guess what you're all trying to imply here that if Brutal Doom didn't exist, the version of Doom 4 we would have gotten would have been like this?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_HI-Ev2ZbX4

Sorta, that version of doom was getting canned regardless. Focus groups weren't responding well to it and after the negative reaction to the game that Jason Schreier described in the article above is what probably caused the reboot. According to Martty they went back to the drawing board after the reboot and started bringing up classic doom games and the ways they would modernize those games. Id probably used brutal doom as an argument how a classic 90s throwback shooter could be popular in the modern day since every big name video game youtuber was making a video about brutal doom. Now all this could be wrong cause we don't actually know what happened but I think it's likely that brutal doom inspired doom 2016.

[Zed]

MetroidJunkie said:

Also, SgtMarkIV didn't invent the concept of brutal finishing moves. Ahem?

I hate it when people think you should credit the example they happen to know about rather than where the concept ACTUALLY came from. If anything, Bethesda/ID should be thanking Midway.

I didn't think about that. Maybe they saw BD, they saw it "took inspiration" from Mortal Kombat, and decided to take that little bit from MK into Doom 2016 (especially considering that MK came out around the same time as Doom). Or maybe they saw MK first, then looked at BD and saw it was popular, and decided to include it?
.
EDIT: Clarity.

[Madolite]

Zed said:

I didn't think about that. Maybe they saw BD, they saw it "took inspiration" from Mortal Kombat, and decided to take that little bit from MK into Doom 2016

Or maybe they just thought that killing demons would look cooler if there was some kind of special finish to it. I.e. they didn't get the inspiration from anywhere, because the idea is so simple and specific that anyone with half a brain could invent it, all by themselves.

[VGamingJunkie]

It's very rare that you come up with a 100% original idea that nobody else came up with. Odds are, you're drawing inspiration from other people's works constantly. It was admitted that Doom drew inspiration from The Legend of Zelda for backtracking and even the name came from a movie.

[TheMightyHeracross]

mistercow said:

Doom 4 was in development hell for a really long time (around the time rage was in development.) In 2013 kotaku put out this article and the game was rebooted after that. So it is likely that brutal doom inspired this game

Dude, it was rebooted two years before that article. It even says that in the article itself!

[Spectre01]

If anything, Sgt. Mark should get some royalties from this release, considering how influential his work has been to the development process.

[TheMightyHeracross]

^
I see no influence from BD whatsoever. Executions are in plenty of games and just because BD had it doesn't mean it was an influence.

[Jaxxoon R]

By that logic, the companies owning Dungeons and Dragons, Evil Dead, and Alien should get royalties for influencing the development process of Doom.

[Robo_Cola]

Jaxxoon R said:

By that logic, the companies owning Dungeons and Dragons, Evil Dead, and Alien should get royalties for influencing the development process of Doom.

Next thing you know, DoomWorld is owing to Doom :0

[Jill]

TheMightyHeracross said:

Dude, it was rebooted two years before that article. It even says that in the article itself!

and it got rebooted again after that.

[Jaxxoon R]

[citation needed]

[VGamingJunkie]

Hell, Duke Nukem Forever has freaking execution kills so it's not uncommon.

[phi108]

Whenever I get the new game, I'll try a spartan/simple run without using any upgrades or fatalities, just boom sticks.

On-topic, the most sad thing i think is the way none of the big devs from Doom I/II are involved in the new one other than Carmack's programming (and then departure). I guess all great groups come to an end, and I guess their end was last century.

Edited March 18, 2017 by phi108

[Phobos Anomaly]

Ok, if this thread goes down the Brutal Doom discussion path, it is doomed to the depths of forum hell. So...in a blatantly obvious attempt to redirect...

I absolutely love the new game. It's a shame Carmack doesn't even get a mention, not even as a hidden easter egg (at least not that we know of yet.)

On a related note, I've been dying to know exactly what Romero thinks of the new game. I've been stalking his Twitter, but no real mention yet beyond a friendly jab about the misaligned and reversed textures in the easter egg classic maps.

Does anyone happen to know what he thinks?

[TheWizard]

Doom 3 and doom 3 bfg existed people. That's why doom 2016 exists.