Let's improve barons.

[MaxED]

Not Jabba said:

fighting one with a chaingun.

BULLET BARON!

[PseudoGold]

Azazel Bloodfucker said:

are keys invulnerable until the door acquired?

Are keys acquired until the door is invulnerable?

[Benjogami]

MaxED said:

BULLET BARON!
http://i.imgur.com/Ygswuyp.png

That would be pretty interesting. There's a pretty big hitscanner gap between chaingunners and masterminds. More than one bullet baron and they'd just shoot at eachother for minutes though. :D

[Rayziik]

Imagine if the bullet baron just sprayed a stream of baron fireballs instead of hitscans. Talk about bullet hell!

[HorrorMovieRei]

scifista42 said:

http://i.imgur.com/oxjrd17.png

That looks way scarier than it has the right to be.

[Azazel Bloodfucker]

PseudoGold said:

Are keys acquired until the door is invulnerable?

Are until acquired until the until is until?

[Pirx]

Rayzik said:

Imagine if the bullet baron just sprayed a stream of baron fireballs instead of hitscans. Talk about bullet hell!

what about those barons in the sky may be. shooting streams of 80 million damage or so.

[Marcaek]

Barons are fine. Just treat them as a niche monster and stop peppering maps with useless barons and you're good to go.

See any Ribbiks WAD for a crash course on how to use hell nobles.

[Pirx]

scifista42 said:

To me, the obvious way to improve Barons is to make them fire a volley of 3-5 projectiles instead of 1 (with a "semi-slow" rate of fire), and/or change their walking animation duration from 3 to 2 tics per frame (making them more aggressive), and/or reducing their health to something like 700 (one SSG shot tougher than Hell Knights). Actually, I probably wouldn't consider it an improvement unless not just 1, but at least 2 (or all 3) of the abovementioned changes were implemented.

something like this. should be less health, more threat. i liked the replacements in valiant: the rocket-launching cybruiser (went down in 4 ssg shots i think, not 5-6, but high threat) and the pyrodemon for the knight.

[Arctangent]

Phml said:

It doesn't seem thematically appropriate for Barons to be support, but I dig the concept.

Well, they are nobles yet it's pretty clear that they aren't terribly good at fighting, even if they do have the power - they fight in exactly the same way the mooky imps do, after all. So to me, it makes sense that these guys would lead the battle through their "charisma," making the better fighters fight even better and basically act as the head of the squad even if they aren't dealing the damage, except to stuff that gets too close to them.

It helps that, when you look at Doom 4, you realize that they could be so much more hulking, and classic Doom Barons are the closest thing to a "pretty boy" demon there is in the roster.

[Azazel Bloodfucker]

Arctangent said:

Well, they are nobles yet it's pretty clear that they aren't terribly good at fighting, even if they do have the power - they fight in exactly the same way the mooky imps do, after all. So to me, it makes sense that these guys would lead the battle through their "charisma," making the better fighters fight even better and basically act as the head of the squad even if they aren't dealing the damage, except to stuff that gets too close to them.

It helps that, when you look at Doom 4, you realize that they could be so much more hulking, and classic Doom Barons are the closest thing to a "pretty boy" demon there is in the roster.

Maybe Demon's find red skin more attractive than the light brown skin most demon's have.But that would make caco's technically more attractive too.

[Ancalagon]

Azazel Bloodfucker said:

But that would make caco's technically more attractive too.

And yes cacos are super cute

[Azazel Bloodfucker]

Ancalagon said:

And yes cacos are super cute

Cacos ARE really cute, there is no denying that.

[Impie]

Azazel Bloodfucker said:

Cacos ARE really cute, there is no denying that.

One might even call them kawaiicodemons.

Jimmy said:

Doors with health. - Deal with them quickly and effectively by hitting "use" on them.

Tested this and laughed my ass off. You should totally add the keys aspect and recolor the barons based on which key works on them.

I'm not sure if this is an improvement, really.

Based on this thread

[Not Jabba]

Impie said:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sBLikwEgsh0

That is so beautiful.

[esselfortium]

Impie said:

One might even call them kawaiicodemons.

Tested this and laughed my ass off. You should totally add the keys aspect and recolor the barons based on which key works on them.

I'm not sure if this is an improvement, really.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sBLikwEgsh0

Based on this thread

Okay, wow. There have been some spectacular posts in this thread, but this one is really something else. Thank you for that amazingness.

[pavera]

Impie said:

One might even call them kawaiicodemons.

Tested this and laughed my ass off. You should totally add the keys aspect and recolor the barons based on which key works on them.

I'm not sure if this is an improvement, really.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sBLikwEgsh0

Based on this thread

Oh my god. This might be the greatest monster replacement of all time.

[kuchitsu]

Meh, imo it's neither cool nor funny, just repulsive\disgusting because the head size doesn't fit the rest of the body at all. It's like a baby with an adult head (remember that nightmare scene from the film where Arnold gets pregnant?).

[Kira]

I laughed so hard when they started to attack. Kind of want to make this caco a reaction pic too.

kuchitsu said:

Meh, imo it's neither cool nor funny, just repulsive\disgusting because the head size doesn't fit the rest of the body at all. It's like a baby with an adult head (remember that nightmare scene from the film where Arnold gets pregnant?).

Reading the thread it is based on might help you to get the joke.

[HavoX]

kuchitsu said:

Meh, imo it's neither cool nor funny, just repulsive\disgusting because the head size doesn't fit the rest of the body at all. It's like a baby with an adult head (remember that nightmare scene from the film where Arnold gets pregnant?).

You're unenlightened. Perhaps you should seek some humor in your life.

[Cynical]

Not Jabba said:

I'm a little baffled, because I feel like this is the conversation we just had:

Me: "Barons are only good in really specific situations."
You: "You're wrong! Barons are a great monster, it's just that they're only good in really specific situations!"

Can't we just agree to...agree? I sort of want to reiterate that fighting one with a chaingun feels more annoying than intimidating, though.

I guess I'm confused as to why people think that Barons having niche usage is a problem.

They have lots of HP and a relatively simple attack pattern. That's the niche they fill. If you change either of those things, you're making the monster less useful, not more useful, since it can no longer fill its niche properly.

[DooM_RO]

Cynical said:

I guess I'm confused as to why people think that Barons having niche usage is a problem.

They have lots of HP and a relatively simple attack pattern. That's the niche they fill. If you change either of those things, you're making the monster less useful, not more useful, since it can no longer fill its niche properly.

They are really just stronger Imps.

[baja blast rd.]

Cynical said:

I guess I'm confused as to why people think that Barons having niche usage is a problem.

They have lots of HP and a relatively simple attack pattern. That's the niche they fill. If you change either of those things, you're making the monster less useful, not more useful, since it can no longer fill its niche properly.

It's worth it if you can replace it with another monster that fills another more useful niche. Why use a baron when you can have a flying machine gun cyberdemon.

[Cynical]

rdwpa said:

Why use a baron when you can have a flying machine gun cyberdemon.

Go play "Missing Gamma Sector" from Unholy Realms. Or the Chord series. That will answer your question.

[Kira]

Cynical said:

Go play "Missing Gamma Sector" from Unholy Realms. Or the Chord series. That will answer your question.

But do they have a flying machine gun cyberdemon? If not I won't play them.

[Gez]

DooM_RO said:

They are really just stronger Imps.

Cacodemons are stronger flying imps; cyberdemons are stronger imps with blast damage; zombies are hitscan imps.

[HorrorMovieRei]

I'm sure we are all Imps on the inside.

[Paul977]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sBLikwEgsh0

Based on this thread

Ahahaha wtf

[Not Jabba]

Pain Elementals are just imps that shoot imps.

In all seriousness, what I've been trying to get at is that I wouldn't want to see Barons replaced entirely -- but I think the ideal thing would be for people to use them less and add in some kind of more versatile monster with Baron-tier health to round out the bestiary even better. I've always liked Afrits and Cybruisers for this reason. I think people are starting to think of Afrits as cliche, but to me that's almost like calling Arachnotrons or Spectres cliche. If they're a good choice, why not use them?

[Noiser]

DooM_RO said:

They are really just stronger Imps.

I can't compare barons with imps. Green projectiles do a lot more damage, pain chance is different (200 - 50) and IIRC the rhythm between each attack is different. Besides, the huge amount of health can make a specific kind of pressure (pushing the player back constantly)