The DWmegawad Club plays: Ancient Aliens

[dobu gabu maru]

KBlaney said:

By the way, @70sscifiart tweeted this recently:
https://twitter.com/70sscifiart/status/745061979866402816
Kind of cool just how much it seems to reflect on the design of Ancient Aliens.

Oh yeah that is pretty cool.

MAP22: I associate Back to Saturn X most closely with essel’s stuff/style, so I was definitely gettin’ some vibes of it here. Part of it is his way of pushing the player forward through a level while simultaneously having them revisit rooms, and another is how he constructs grand architecture that evokes a sense of place and utility. This particular cliffside complex is dominated by two features—distant snipers and nasty AV battles where the player is robbed of easy cover. I thought both provided a good shift from the paradigm of the rest of the set, managing to be a difficult map without resorting to traps that felt “cheap” or “unfair” (though some of those AV fights are pretty dirty—rdwpa definitely had a much easier time than I did). Whereas AD’s map flows with the rest of AA, I feel that essel’s map (like stewboy’s) nicely complements skillsaw’s work, being similar enough as to not feel alien (hehe) but providing a change of pace from the usual frantic arena fare. Excellent work.

Also kudos on holding off on handing the player the shotgun—not too often does that happen!

[rehelekretep]

MAP22 - "Acerola-Orion" by esselfortium demo here

wow! this was a blast.

+ the MIDI is fantastic; one of my favourites so far. it really made playing this through multiple times (it aint easy) so fun

+ enemy placement and design is spot on - i wouldnt change a thing. i would have liked the maze at the end to be a bit wider - it felt a bit unfair as i had the shotgun out just before the 2 revenant teleporter bit and that sealed my fate. a bit more room would allow a player to survive that with some dodging skills

+ the map design itself is beautiful - i love that you basically visit every part that you could see at the beginning.

awesome map! i hope 23 can live up to this.

["JL" was too short]

MAP22

I'd be lying if I told you I didn't cuss frequently and fervently while playing this map, but it was in a good way, mostly. With the exception of a very few bullshit traps (please don't spawn a hell knight close enough behind and to the side that it and its entourage pin me against a wall literally before I can figure out what's going on) this map had a well-balanced cycle of throwing me into firestorms, then picking me up and dusting me off with some well-timed health and armor before letting me do it again. If you're going to have that sort of gameplay with fireballs and plasma flying in from various unfair angles, this is definitely the way to do it. And what can I say about the exploration other than that I wish I could weave pathways around, through, and over each other as nicely as this does?

Visually, this is almost a perfect rendition of the dark alien techno-arcane that I've been enjoying for a few maps now. Whence the almost, you ask? Simple: those damn caution stripes. They don't seem to belong here at all and every time I see one it does its best to tug me out of the otherwise immersive environment. I get that they serve a valuable visual purpose by way of offering trim and highlighting edges, but I'm positive you could concoct a texture that would do that while still looking at home in alien hell.

[Pirx]

MAP17 - "Daylight Under a Dark Sol" by skillsaw

you reach an alien base in the mountains, it's build over magenta lava and has a lightbridge platform, the one you cross for getting the red key. the castle is patrolled by 2 cybs who are best left alone when playing from pistol start until you get the bfg from that pool with a megasphere (where you also get ambushed by a gang of barons and revs and have to put the bfg you just picked up to good use). interesting fight at the big warp-in after picking up rocket boxes, since the mob of imps was the most dangerous part as makes using rockets impossible, so i had to get rid of them first. two-shot the patrolling cybs, the run cirles around the red key until the everyone dies from infighting. the last fight, other 2 cybs, was made surprisingly difficult by some lost souls interfering with my bfg shots, so i wasted 4 shots on the first and had to feed pellets to the second.

lol @ demon's term "siege cow" because that's exactly how we called the cybers when i use to play on lan with friends: cow. like when one of the players went ahead bravely with a shotgun and suddenly ran back, yelling (the player, not the doomguy): cow! cow!

great map, one of my favorites so far.


MAP18 - "Illuminati Revealed" by skillsaw

rileymartin said:

Map 18

This pretty much sums up this map's gameplay. Going in blind is going to be a frustrating experience full of dying and savescumming. I will go on record and say this is the hardest map in the megawad to play without foreknowledge. On the other hand, if you know what you're doing and where the keys are it's all a matter of: 1) Rush the BFG at the start. 2) Speedrun to the red key only killing junk directly in your way. 2a) Optionally jump down to the Megasphere if you need it or want the secret. 3) Bail out and rush to the red door, again ignoring everything that's not directly threatening you. 4) Rush the blue key and only fire as few BFG shots as possible while avoiding the crushers. 5) Get the hell out of there to the left of the red entrance past the crushers while BFG'ing Hell Knights and Revenants. 6) Rush the yellow key then run past everything, ignoring the Cyberdemon and company, down the elevator. 7) Quickly kill the 4 Archviles. Trivial if you grabbed the BFG or enjoy dying repeatedly because there's a swarm of 30 Cacodemons coming from the left side and you can't handle the Viles quick enough. 8) Hit switch, run past the bars and BFG spam your way to the UFO.

Took me 3:38 to do in one go. I did save a few times but never died on that run. It's a cool closer if you know what you're getting into. It's a massive pain in the rectum if you don't. The difference in difficulty between the two is way too high in my opinion and better cues could be used to guide the player. Otherwise this falls under the category of maps I like to call: "Watch a UV-Max route on youtube or have a bad time."

quoting this because it's precisely my experience with this map. i ran around thinking that i have to collect weapons and beat the spawner somehow. i refrained from saving until now, but that part with the crusher portals ended in profuse swearing and pathetic savescumming through the sequence. well, no wonder as i missed the bfg. doh.

played the map again properly to the guide above and yeah, it's fun when you do it like that. btw, then i noticed that the route through the map is indeed easy to see when you have already a plan, but with all that colorful stuff and tons of crap flying around... no way. so, know this map before you play it :p


MAP19 - "Crash Landing" by skillsaw

you crashed that shiny saucer, killed some losers and lost your gear in the process, so you have to punch your way through an alien, hellish looking planet, as there's very little other ammo available. there are some revenants for more punch than your typical tyson map rabble (imps and demons) and a couple archviles, one can be telefragged (without animal spirits), the other one knocked out. there's this end where you have to keep your shells for the drones, i laughed so much when i saw that joke that i nearly got killed at the last moment, and went boxing the final 2 revs on my last 2 hp. nice map!

[Demon of the Well]

I had no idea there was a BFG in map 18, haha (is this UV we're talking about?). Would certainly reduce the pressure even more if so, less reason to invest a great deal of anxiety into that map when you have a 'get out jail free' card to help you push through the main roadblocks.

Map 22 -- Acerola-Orion - 116% Kills / 100% Secrets
Doomworld's very own Great Satan makes a contribution here, in the form of a location-based sojourn through an ancient techno-shrine seated in the heart of an otherworldly mountain range. As far as aesthetics go, I can only describe it as "beauteous." Indeed, I do believe I would go as far to say that it is the most visually attractive map in the WAD to this point, at least as far as my tastes go. I would attribute this largely to the use of color and lighting. Much of the mapset (or at least the majority of it since the narrative left dear old Terra, at any rate) has tended to use its assets in such a way as to create a frenetic, lively, hyperstimulative visual impression, as though the game were taking place on the table of some giant AAA pinball machine; this is all well and good, mind you, but there is something in the subtler richness of composition here that speaks to me more, with a vast 'natural' land/sky canvas of stormy purple and dreamy indigo playing host to stately structures wrought in sandstone, unpolished metal, and other earthier materials. Neon and other more vivid tones are also present, but used in limited or measured ways, either for cinematic emphasis or as trim, with individual spaces accented more by lighting choices, which run the table from delicate gradients to simple flood-fills which vary nicely from waypoint to waypoint. All that aside, one also surely can't fail to notice that the layout is a smorgasbord of vistas and vantages, showing many different facets of the same place at different times. It's all unrelentingly classy, and smacks of love and care, from the makeup of the most insistent visual landmarks to little details like that one impaled body stuck way up high in the mountains, which is only really visible from one place. What's his story?

Very much liked the music, as well, incidentally, probably my favorite of these newer pieces. It shows the same bent for developing into an affectedly euphoric mood of childlike wonder as its brethren, but expresses this in a more pensive way, again, more amenable to my tastes. I suppose it also plays 'safe' in that it returns to the melancholy main theme a few times over the duration as well, something stewboy has always been good at doing, and generally the main thing I like his music for.

All that prattling about aesthetic aside, it's of course worth noting that the map plays well, too. Framed in a sort of stylish layout-looping "Living End" sort of vein (i.e. you can see a final goal in the distance, and gradually make your way towards it by navigating a complex elevated pathway over a drop into the drink) which seems to have become something of a predilection and a specialty for the author over recent years, the meat of play here sees Doomguy periodically exposed to demonic artillery while moving from cover point to cover point along the (sometimes precarious) pathway, each aforesaid point generally hosting a self-contained ambush or trap to vary the pace. While the level is quite generous as far as providing hi-test ammo goes, and hardly stingy with healing, it's trickier than it may initially seem: a lot of the transitional runs between cover points are complicated by unusual doglegs or sudden interruptions, and getting out of the rain of projectiles will periodically involve shoving something big and mean out of the way as well (for example, the viles and revenants active on the northeastern ledge from the outset will probably take it upon themselves to come and meet you at a REALLY inconvenient juncture if you don't carefully prune them away at the earliest opportunity), easier said than done when you have to do all of this under fire--easy to lose momentum here, though two of the three secrets are quite powerful in context and can help you maintain drive if you're struggling. It occurs to me that the web of snipery over a constrained route on offer here is really not so fundamentally different from the pre-cyberdemon stuff in map 21 just prior, but I feel this style of placement works much better in this case, where the much larger scale and airier context allows one to appreciate and experience moving and dodging within the clever overlapping of fields of fire more actively, rather than having to laboriously dismantle each bit of it piece by piece while moving along.

The self-contained fights are enjoyable as well, somewhat par for the course for the set (continued emphasis on below-ground 'closets' revealed via deadfalls), but generally effective nonetheless. There's a bit more of a sardonic streak at play here than some players may expect from this author, prosecuted largely by short-fuse timed reveals in the middle of fights which are intended to counter the simplest way of handling them, as has been mentioned by others--the arch-vile who shows up several beats into the post-BK deadfall jamboree down in the ooze-reservoir being the most notable. I really liked the final fight, myself--potential there to be comically devastating if you don't intuit the correct strategy beforehand, but you are given the opportunity to do so if you're really paying attention to your surroundings, and once you know how to execute doing so is breezy fun. The preamble to this fight in the little walled 'hedgerow' is far less endearing, I must say--feels like it's artificially prolonging the map while you're inside of it--though I suppose I can accept it as a roundabout way of creating a spot-placed corpse-pile for the viles in the actual fight to use.

Very nice work from Essel, here. I reckon I'd even go so far as to say that this is my favorite of his maps that I've played to date.

[dobu gabu maru]

Demon of the Well said:

[...] to use its assets in such a way as to create a frenetic, lively, hyperstimulative visual impression, as though the game were taking place on the table of some giant AAA pinball machine

This is an extremely apt and elegant way to sum up Ancient Aliens' aesthetic, actually—kudos.

["JL" was too short]

MAP23

Unfortunately I have to say that this is by far my least favorite map in the series so far. It feels as though someone gave the AA texture pack to one of the "worse" mappers of a mid-90s wad like TNT or Eternal Doom; it's got that same sort of texture-vomit look going on and the same sort of tedious gameplay through a series of big rooms. The previous texturing sins of this megawad (as I saw them) look a lot better now by comparison. The best I can say is that a few of the setpieces-- the front temple stairs, the purple falls, BFG room and circular staircase in the penultimate area-- could look good if they were in a different map. Oh, and the exit room sequence really is excellent, but again, feels sort of wasted on this map.

Thankfully, the gameplay is much less obtuse than I'd expect of this map's aforementioned TNT or Eternal Doom spiritual ancestors. Non-obtuse isn't the same thing as pleasurable, though, and I can only assume that the concept of "monsters teleporting in around you every ten steps" ran over the mapper's dog or something, because in this map they beat it to death, then exhumes it after the funeral to beat on it some more. Jesus.

To give the mapper their due, they seem to technically know their way around a Doom editor perfectly well, and I can only assume they made the sort of map they wanted to play, so good on them, I guess. I can't really hide the fact that I found this map a rather unpleasant experience, at least by the standards of this megawad, but I remember people saying similar things about my own maps back in PCCP1, so I'll just chalk this thing up to different strokes and hope that none of the remaining mappers choose to paint with strokes like these.

[baja blast rd.]

On 6/22/2016 at 11:02 AM, rehelekretep said:

what resolution are you playing at? and why what seems like 4:3 ratio? :D

640x480, and it seems that way because it is. :) I'd play at 1366x7whatever but my computer lags a bit in "true" slaughtermaps at that resolution.

On 6/22/2016 at 8:57 PM, jerrysheppy said:

MAP22
Visually, this is almost a perfect rendition of the dark alien techno-arcane that I've been enjoying for a few maps now. Whence the almost, you ask? Simple: those damn caution stripes. They don't seem to belong here at all and every time I see one it does its best to tug me out of the otherwise immersive environment. I get that they serve a valuable visual purpose by way of offering trim and highlighting edges, but I'm positive you could concoct a texture that would do that while still looking at home in alien hell.

Yeah, I was thinking that this is the sort of mismash that you'd prefer a lot to the one with silver and orange. The caution stripes were a bit weird to me too. I really liked them in Sunlust map22 and map23, where the predominant colors are black & blue and black & dark brown & green respectively, but with lots of purple & light brown and with it used as more of a pastiche toss-in instead of for regular accents or architectural centerpieces or something, it's kind of ew.

On 6/23/2016 at 2:30 AM, Demon of the Well said:

Very nice work from Essel, here. I reckon I'd even go so far as to say that this is my favorite of his maps that I've played to date.

Cool write-up, and yeah I think so too, probably slated for my top five at mapset's end, because I love the aesthetics.

It didn't even cross my mind that the circular encounter had a corpse-planting function, because the two viles spent most of their time chasing me and the threat of the revs was dwarved by that of the spectres. I like the idea of it (not something you see in every map, which is automatically worth bonus points), but it's maybe two or three monster clusters too long.

The odd thing I noticed about essel's mapping history is how dispersed (or maybe collaboration-oriented is a more accurate term) the solo single-player stuff is. She's the only really good designer I know of who has been around for many years who doesn't have any solo mapsets at all, not even a small one.

Edited November 4, 2018 by rdwpa

[Tristan]

MAP21: Cyberbullying: Beyond Earth
Time: 08:43 (03:14:06) | Deaths: 6 (24)

Argh, there had to be a bad map in here somewhere, and I've just found it, but props at least for the fact it's taken this long to arrive. Hopefully this is just a one-off and the rest of the WAD is good.
This map is probably the strangest looking yet, with a possibly equally strange MIDI to accompany it, though it turned out I still had OPL emulation on. We see more of the purple rock theme from the illuminati planet, decorated with funny little pyramid holograms that are Irrefutable Proof that the aliens built the pyramids on Earth! But in addition to this, there's a bunch of other things going on, from more cyan-trimmed temple-like structures similar to the first episode, and also some tech elements fused into the map as well, including the cycling light texture used for the UFOs.

The map gets off to quite an inoffensive start, the combat is fairly easy, although plasmagunners return to the fray after a brief absence in recent maps, and they put the pressure on a bit. The first time we see the cyberdemon is when he's revealed just in front of the blue key, and I turned and ran immediately, and got so caught up in the other monsters behind me that I never saw him disappear, which was a neat bit of confusion because, well, where did it go?
Things continue along at their usual pace, but the cyberdemon makes a reappearance towards the end of the map, and this is where the map reveals the meaning of its title, and it's also where the map fell off a cliff for me.
I was really hoping this would be another telefrag situation, but it wasn't, it was try and move around a tiny area while monsters probably get in your way, and you try and hit switches without getting slammed by a rocket while doing so. Then assuming you get through that easy enough, here's a load of crushers for you to dodge while you try to avoid the cyberdemon even more because he follows you, also you have to watch out for the other monsters that teleport in and find the red key somewhere in here which you need for the exit door which is somewhere else in here. No thanks.

Most of the map is decent enough, but this ending is bad enough to really mar my opinion of it overall, and I have no doubts that it's my least favourite so far. This late in the WAD, I'm hoping and expecting that it won't be dethroned.

4/10

[baja blast rd.]

map23

Quickly jotting down a set of observations every five minutes or so as I play:

1) The whole airport floor contraption looks kind of silly, honestly. Not a fan.

2) The vista looks stunning geometrically, but the texturing is kind of bad, I think. The orange horizontal bar texture looks more like a placeholder than anything. The rock texture is kind of ugly to begin with and isn't the sort that tiles well. Overall contrast between the more flood-filed surfaces (rocks, orange bars, etc.) and the complex ones like bordered columns is a bit rough -- the latter sticks out by virtue of being a bit too high detail.

3) The sharp cutoff at which the water's current stops is quite weird looking. I think it would look smoother stopping at another height change.

4) BGM is absolutely ELITE. Holy shit.

5) That baron, zzzzz. Had like 80+ shells at this point. Not sure why it needs to exist. Also not a fan of the insta warp at the top because of unavoidable damage. The blue light-scrolling lift looks incredibly garish.

6) Once again, the topology of the landscape looks pretty cool, especially the greener areas as you look down.

7) I like how the revs rain down missiles if you ditch them. Disposing of them is quite tedious though.

8) I think Pinchy tends to way way overuse these warp-ins in his recent maps. The encounters can be fun, at least, but it really looks crude. Some of the warp-ins are a bit overzealous too, like the spiders in the water presumably so that the player has something to do if they run. If you actually stay put and kill everything, then they end up just looking weird and ineffective. His mapping would be better served to either go for quality-over-quantity with these, or to at least stage the warp-ins better (the cacos are a good example of a well-staged warp-in: it at least makes sense that they are popping out of that acid thingy, instead of warping to a shitload of unmarked spots on the ground).

9) The green/blue areas look striking in person too.

10) About that green armor + medkit: 32-high cliffs with stuff on them aren't such a good idea in big open areas like this. They break immersion because it looks from a distance like you should be able to access them, and then when you get there you can't and you're REALLY reminded of the fact that Doomguy can't traverse a 1.5-ft ledge.

11) I really enjoyed how the temporary ammo shortage is planned and used to forced the player to move forward into what would essentially be very low-pressure frontal combat. (This is sort of why the spiders in the water feel quite pointless -- finding a safe spot is easy regardless, but you have to go fight the monsters on their own turf to make progress anyway. I think in general it's way better in this sort of open layout to make absolutely NO play at levying pressure at the player if s/he chooses to escape than from making a play that looks weak and ineffectual. In other word, go hard or go home. :P The cliff chaingunners were a strong enough play, imo.)

12) I'd be more surprised by now if an empty area WASN'T bugged. Another problem: reliance on these seems to point at a lack of ideas.

13) Some of my first serious damage taken on the level: an archvile that didn't make an audible alert sound. I first noticed it when I was in flames caught right out in the open. Kind of unfair. In before someone else says "Well this didn't happen to me, so obviously the setup is fine". :D

14) Chaingunner warp-in is cool. I went into that little box and released the AV while most of the imps and souls were still alive, leading to an enjoyable skirmish. Would be a lot stronger of course if this wasn't the 10th fight staged this way ALREADY! I'll stop repeating myself on this subject. ;)

15) The spiders that warp in this time are quite pointless because they are blocked from ever attacking the player by the ledges.

16) RK set piece is nice (as is the design of the area that houses it, with those platforms). Not so much of a fan of texture of the switch that lets you out, though. Also enjoy the mass group of troopers that give you something amusing to do while you make the trek back to the red key switch.

17) The blue armor pickup lowering the floor is weird. Kind of punishes you for choosing to pick up the BA first before picking up the rest of the things. I had a lot of health and ammo at this point but would've been a bit pissed if I could have really used the health/ammo for that fight.

18) I quite like the set piece in this area. Clever and funny.

19) The mass pinky warp-in otoh right after it. Pure filler. These monsters would 100% be better off placed incidentally, with somewhat fewer pinkies.

20) Rev + plasma marine encounter, thumbs up. Chaingunner encounter as well. I was expecting a mass warp-in of something in that room, thankfully the encounter was presented more creatively. Purely from a fighting standpoint, there's no real difference between revealing the chaingunners via lowering pillars and revealing them via an insta warp-in, but it makes a pretty huge difference aesthetically, in the context of the map. Something as simple as varying the way encounters are presented would make a HUGE difference in the feel of this map.

21) Warp-in with the AD heads: the ADs don't exert any pressure, feels more tacked-on than anything. The imps that block the door are easy to rush past (had plasma rifle out in expectation of another non-trap trap).

22) At first I thought the manc reveal on the other side was fine, but then two more mancs popped up -- looks somewhat inelegant when the monsters block teleport destinations like this. There isn't any difference in threat level either, assuming you just immediately escape when the first two mancs are revealed as I did. I guess the player was expected to stay put and use the RL or something. Makes sense to use either two mancs or four destinations.

23) I also escaped the "courtyard maze" encounter, then it was just a pure clean-up fight. I like that one, though, it seems a lot meaner -- a proper "meat lock-in" set piece, not one that relies on puny imps :p -- and I got a bit lucky with monster pathing to be able to escape so easily, I think. This area has multiple sudden warp-ins, but they are all conceivably part of the same encounter, so it works better imo.

24) Aesthetically I'm not a fan of these parts for the same reasons I didn't like map09 -- too much of a mishmash, imo, and the silver textures really don't work.

25) Last area is quite cool. The sky was moving or something. Idk if that works logically, but it was cool nevertheless. I liked the AD head spam. Kind of a low-pressure fight at that stage (a relatively easy "move slowly in one direction and spam rockets" slaughter fight, given how the ADs aren't so threatening from so high up), but the ADs are scary.

26) Then there were TWO CYBERDEMONS! :O Pressure: high and frightening. I didn't really want to deal with them, so I quickly ran into the area they were released from, without any real plans on fighting them. It lowered slowly, but it was fairly safe since they weren't on it at that point!!! Phew! Strong finish.

--

Okay, so overall, I think this map has a lot of good ideas here and there, scattered among a greater number of fillery ones. It would benefit strongly from less breadth in terms of texture usage (green+blue natural stuff, cool, Egyptian stuff and most of the non-tech textures, cool, brown rock, cool; that gray rock, ew, much of the orange and silver tech stuff, ew) and a lot MORE breadth in terms of how fights are staged. The lower-pressure sudden unmarked warp-ins should really be incidental placements or something, because the main benefit of them being warp-ins -- surprise -- is completely and utterly undercut by the fact that there are nine gillion such encounters in the level. A few more reveals should be done by transforming the map geometry where that's possible, sort of like the chaingunner reveal mentioned above. Some of the warp-ins can be ditched altogether. I actually don't remember which of the tech textures in this map worked for me. It all seemed crude in comparison to the well-enough designed natural and Egypty stuff.

[Tristan]

MAP22: Acerola-Orion - esselfortium
Time: 10:15 (03:24:31) | Deaths: 0 (24)

Massive scale on display here from essel's map, by far the largest we've seen in this WAD yet, because not only is this map pretty large from a top-down perspective, it's also rather vast vertically. It portrays two buildings situated on either side of a tall chasm, made of more of this purple rock (ok really, where the bloody hell are we?) and one of the buildings runs down the side so that the little bit we start in is quite close to the bottom. The building on the other side is built on top of the chasm, and it looks fucking huge. Quite imposing, actually, but then I guess something like this is to be expected from the evil mastermind dude behind BTSX, though from what I remember, this trumps most of his work even in there.

It's a bit misleading though, because huge as this map is in a dimensional sense, it's only just above average in how long it actually takes to complete. The objective of the map is very simple, and almost obvious, since we can see it from the start area. There's a huge building towering over you; get to the top of it.
It's quite a linear path all the way, though this doesn't bother me too much, and there's still a bit of room to get lost in some places, perhaps partly because ultimately this place is just so vast. The fights allow for more heavy rocket launcher use, which of course is a plus in my book, and now it's time to wheel out the plasma gun again, which I don't think I've seen since MAP18. It's a welcome return, because some of the fights here, while all generally manageable do boast a moderate amount of tough meat, with several archviles being met over the course of the level, and I had pretty unfortunate luck with all of them I think, ultimately resulting in two very near misses with single-digit health. Gotta say, I'm surprised I got through this without dying.

When we eventually reach the top of the second building there's a strange teleport sequence where you slowly warp towards a portal through a series of gates which feature some more of those weird pyramid holograms introduced in the previous map. Since the player is briefly stopped from moving every time they teleport, the sequence feels a tad clunky, but fortunately it doesn't last too long. The final fights take place inside a maze-like structure, which disappears into the floor when you reach the centre, and another fight follows that, which was a bit tense because there was an arch-vile and without the maze, the area is quite open with very sparse cover, but it's no biggie, because health throughout was pretty plentiful.

Overall, MAP22 is another contender for the top-spot for best looking map yet, and stands out very well against other maps because there hasn't been anything on this big a scale so far. Gameplay wise, it falls just slightly short for some reason. Nice and enjoyable, fantastic to look at, but I can't call it a favourite, and what's strange is that I'm wishing I could.

8/10

[Tristan]

Caught-up, I guess.

MAP23: Trinary Temple - Pinchy
Time: DNF after 24:11 (03:48:42) | Deaths: 1 (25)

For future reference of all mappers:
SW1 = Red light, etc. = Not pressed
SW2 = Green light, etc. = Pressed

More impressive huge scale from Pinchy, and great MIDI from stewboy that I remember from Jenesis, but I'm gonna cut right to the chase here, I spent about 15 minutes trying to figure out what the hell I was supposed to do with the yellow key, only to find out that one of the all-important switches was using the SW2 frame as its unpressed state.

Please, please, PLEASE don't do this, especially when there's monsters to be concentrating on as well.

[baja blast rd.]

Man, that write-up was LONG. Maybe I should do that more often. :D

[TheOrganGrinder]

MAP23: Trinary Temple

I'm pretty sure this is the biggest level we've had so far? Not even accounting for stuff like the long monster 'waiting rooms' outside of the map's visible boundaries, just the playable area itself here is huge, with a watery canal leading to an enormous outdoor setting prior to the Trinary Temple proper atop its mount, itself a den of spacious proportions. The stage is set for an epic quest, first to batter open the temple gates and then to survive the onslaught of priests, worshippers, and guardian beasts within...

In a WAD that's already full of distinctive design quirks and aesthetic elements, the trinary motif that appears here is simple, memorable, and 'pops' visually whenever it's encounted, a fact helped by its use in elevator-style interactable floors - it's not intrusive, but nor can it be simply ignored. Other than that motif, I found the map to be a bit lacking in atmosphere, with the temple itself feeling more like a corporate lobby/office complex. It's ambitious, but doesn't quite realise its hinted-at goals. Gameplay on the other hand is nicely free-flowing; there are a series of steps the player has to take to progress, but the number and scale of the map's open spaces, and the scattering of objectives and supplies within those spaces, offer the player a chance to dictate the tempo of the battle, though the counter-attack that comes during the exploration of the temple's eastern end reverses that trend and knocks the player onto the back foot. All in all, good stuff.

[Spectre01]

Map 22

Swear to god m8 that name better not be an anime reference.

This is by far my favourite map of the 3rd episode so far and one of the best looking ones in the entire wad. The melancholic midi is perfect too. Took me a few attempts to get a decent start going with all the junk flying at me from the main temple area to the right. The traps are tough and the additional pressure from the side probably makes it the most difficult map yet. The warp back where you grab the SSG and get ambushed by the two Archviles was likely the hardest part of the map. Things get a lot more manageable once you reach the right side of the map and don't have to deal with extra projectile spam. I can't say enough about the visuals but it's up there at the pinnacle of Doom engine aesthetics. Love the final area.

1

[Havoc Crow]

Quick question...

Am I the only one who gets infuriated by the constant "demonic screech" sound effect constantly playing over and over on MAP18? I haven't seen anyone else mention it in the thread. Or is it a glitch only I am having?

[Tristan]

^ Nope, that's the spawn sound for the IoS replacement on the map. I've seen some people complain about it already, so you're not the only one who finds it annoying.

[Pirx]

^^ it's really annoying. When you hear it the first time it's like eh, what an alien sound. But then it gets repeated way too often. Combine this constant screaming with my blunder at the crushers and you get it why I suggested using a rusty pitchfork on this map. Imo better to play this scream only once per minute or so for atmosphere (it's good, actually!) and replace the spawn sound with the original or something less obnoxious.

[NuMetalManiak]

MAP23 Trinary Temple

Oh boy, this is my least favorite map of the bunch. I've played plenty of Pinchy maps lately, and I have to say he has quite a unique style. Unfortunately, it's not a very good one in my view. He loves his outdoor areas, you gotta admit, but then he also dots them with snipers, well outside autoaim's reach often, and some very carefully coordinated teleporter ambushes. I'll admit I am rather guilty of the latter myself, but here it's quite noticable. And it seems to happen at just about every interval, Serious-Sam style, in which it's always around the player. I like it sometimes with the amount of space to move around in, and then there's the stupid ones where I have to backtrack to kill them, like those chaingunners after the bridge crossing. The key ambushes are generally predictable, but those other ones are definitely not.

Inside the temple, what the fuck do I do to avoid those arch-viles? They are certainly the kind of enemy for more closed locales. Past that, it reminds me a lot of Epic 2, except with all the ambushes in enclosed areas with imps and such. Lovely how in the maze-like areas, they appear after just about every pickup. I was wholly unprepared after teleporting after that one. I only managed to 100% this just now in this run, and it was trouble since some of the enemies, like the zombiemen by the temple stairways, don't all teleport in when supposed to. This one always takes the longest time to complete out of the 32 levels here in the set.

[SoundofDoomDoors]

MAP23: Trinary Temple (Pinchy)

89% Kills 0% Secrets

Add me to the list of people who call this their least favorite map so far. At first the teleport ambushes were annoying. Then I got blown up by an archvile with no startup noise. Then I got walled in and killed by another one going for the blue key. I got blasted again as soon as I picked up the red. Seriously lay off the cheap viles! Getting into the temple was fun at first because I wasn't getting burned to a crisp every minute, but the teleport ambushes tried my patience. Serious Sam really is a good comparison. I've been meaning to replay the series at some point, but playing this map has changed my mind. The end gave me fits too. The strategy I finally settled on was to clear the imps with the RL, get the cacos and arachnotrons as much as I could, and switch to plasma to fight the AD_79s. Rockets hurt me too much trying to go after them that way. After that, it was a matter of luck getting past the cyberdemons and hitscanners. No way in hell (irony I know) I was staying after 10 or 15 deaths at the end alone. If I ever replay this wad, I'm skipping this map. Ugh.

[Magnusblitz]

JudgeDeadd said:

Am I the only one who gets infuriated by the constant "demonic screech" sound effect constantly playing over and over on MAP18? I haven't seen anyone else mention it in the thread. Or is it a glitch only I am having?

Ah yeah, I forgot to mention it, but I found it really annoying too.

[KBlaney]

Map 23: What a gigantic map. There is easily enough ideas here to make 2 different maps (outside the temple and then inside the temple) but they lumped them all into one here. There are no major combat challenges here, but this is a great level to explore and really try to figure out how all of the pieces work together. As a result, this is something of a slower burning level and it is very easy to get into a place where you are wandering around wondering what that switch just did. As I've said elsewhere, the ability to have more than 3 keys would benefit these kinds of levels significantly since keys additionally hint where you should go next. (JPCP did this a bit by putting colors on certain switches, but that's about all you can do without radically altering Doom.)

Now, I see a lot of people suggesting this is their least favorite so far. I can absolutely see that if you are minimally saving mid level or playing from a pistol start and the like, but if you are a save scumming chicken like me then this ends up as a fun level to explore. Granted, this sort of puts it at odds with a lot of the rest of the maps in the WAD, but I don't think there is anything inherently wrong with a map that generally asks you to take a slow and measured approach.

[mouldy]

MAP23 - "Trinary Temple" by Pinchy

Well, that was certainly something a bit different. Have to admire the ambition of the layout, it made zdoom struggle slightly in places. It can be tricky to populate an area so vast and keep it under some kind of control, looks like Pinchy went for sporadic warp-ins to solve that problem, though it does look a bit peculiar with all that space to have to teleport monsters into it. A lot of them are impy cake-sprinkles strewn across the land like living scenery.

Not really sure about this map, I mean its ok on its own but in the context of the wad it stands out a bit. The fights range from zero threat to archvile in your face, and seem a little bit unsure of themselves compared to the very rigid set-ups of other maps. I'm happy to have a change, but it does feel a little bit haphazard. I guess that goes for the visuals as well, which look a little bit ugly in places if I'm honest. The blue, orange and dark rock are a bit clashy, and then there were even some iwad textures thrown in there.. I'm assuming the last section was a switch hunt, I mean there were switches around the place and eventually the exit was open so I guess they were doing that. Anyway, this map wasn't really as bad as I'm making out. Just a bit loose and baggy compared to the others.

["JL" was too short]

KBlaney said:

Now, I see a lot of people suggesting this is their least favorite so far. I can absolutely see that if you are minimally saving mid level or playing from a pistol start and the like, but if you are a save scumming chicken like me then this ends up as a fun level to explore. Granted, this sort of puts it at odds with a lot of the rest of the maps in the WAD, but I don't think there is anything inherently wrong with a map that generally asks you to take a slow and measured approach.

I'm a savescumming chicken for sure and I still didn't like it at all. There's a difference between the sort of difficulty/gameplay that forces you to savescum when it's in an interesting environment with memorable encounters, and this map which I would just have described as tedious. But if you enjoyed it, then more power to you.

[Cynical]

Demon of the Well said:

I had no idea there was a BFG in map 18, haha (is this UV we're talking about?). Would certainly reduce the pressure even more if so, less reason to invest a great deal of anxiety into that map when you have a 'get out jail free' card to help you push through the main roadblocks.

Yeah, it's present on UV. From the start, run around the right side of the pyramid, up to the coastline; it's on the far right side of the coastline, behind the cliff.

There's one chokepoint that can still just screw you if you get unlucky, even with the BFG.

[Magnusblitz]

MAP22: Acerola-Orion
100% kills, 3/3 secrets

Essel makes his appearance here, with a map that at first glance seems like it'll be a tough one - are those revenants and AV snipers across from me? - but turns out to be rough. The fights are generally middle-of-the-road enemies (revs, mancs, arachnatrons, AVs) with some small fry imps and zombies in-between, but there's plenty of rocket and cell ammo to go around, so everything is pretty easy to deal with. The only fight which really gave me any trouble was the very last one, and that's just a matter of getting to cover and/or not blowing yourself up on a spectre you didn't see.

Others have commented on the looks, and I agree, it's a very nice-looking level and I was glad to have plenty of time to actually soak it in. At first glance is is a bit of a mish-mash between alien tech and stonework, but I think that it works, we are supposed to be on an alien world after all. And the textures used here really shine, I think it shows just how good those textures are that they can 'carry themselves' in a way (I especially adore that cyan circuitry one). I also like the map being built into the purple alien rock, plenty of chances to go spelunking for secrets.

So yeah, gameplay-wise it's not super-exciting, but does the job and provides very nice surroundings to move through.

[Pirx]

MAP20 - "Code" by AD_79

very skillsaw-like map indeed, i couldn't tell if i didn't read the author's name. interestingly, i found the rambo start not only simple, but also the best way to do it. nice to see the mesoamerican theme again, frescos in the starting area and even some cow heads here, in alien territory. you go from one pretty obvious ambush to the next one in your quest for the keys with the route being laid out clearly, because whenever you pick up a key, the corresponding door is right in your path. said ambushes are not sunlust-like brutal as there's mostly cannon fodder coming (imps), but tricky because the key players are archviles working in pairs, so this requires getting some cover while blasting the fodder out of the way with rockets. the fight at the red (?) key (with the barrels and the soulsphere) can be handled by running circles and NOT firing (what the barrels are bait for, i guess) until the dorks exhaust themselves so the viles can be killed one by one. the other fight at the place with soulsphere & armor on pillars made me laugh because i allowed a vile to launch me onto the sphere, only to realize that i can lower it by simply pressing the pillar. entertaining map, both in gameplay and in looks, that starbase combined with ancient stone.



MAP21 - "Cyberbullying: Beyond Earth" by skillsaw

a cave and ancient ruins haunted by a cyber bully you just don't have the weapons to kill. a map to be handled calmly. most encounters are made to scare you so you run into more enemies or their projectiles, see the many plasma guys. the cyber even more so. in some cases you have to use the niches in the corridor to dodge his rockets and have some room when enemies teleport in. this corridor affair is pretty straight, literally. just the final part with the crushers frustrated me as the morons didn't want to infight at the worst moments, repeatedly. i expected to find a bfg in the cave with all those knights and finally kick the cyb's butt but there was only a red key. whatever, exit if this is ok, or duel him with the ssg at the crushers, he'll hit the walls often and do splash damage. overall another variation of the turret concept, this times a bit more mobile and following you through the map.

[KBlaney]

jerrysheppy said:

I'm a savescumming chicken for sure and I still didn't like it at all. There's a difference between the sort of difficulty/gameplay that forces you to savescum when it's in an interesting environment with memorable encounters, and this map which I would just have described as tedious. But if you enjoyed it, then more power to you.

That's fair. I really don't recall many good encounters (perhaps the mass of zombiemen was fun) as much as I remember the vista of the map itself.

[Spectre01]

Map 23

Don't worry Pinchy, I got yo back. Fuck da haterz mang.

But seriously, I enjoyed this map the first time I played it and had a good time just now. Despite clocking at nearly an hour and 10 minutes to finish, I never found myself bored or thought the map to be tedious. And I'm usually not a fan of maps that clock over 30 minutes unless they're really good. I also had no issues with the aesthetics and thought the visuals were just as nice as anywhere else in the wad. The whole tiered rice fields/organic ledges leading up to the temple worked well and gave the map a nice sense of vertical progression. I didn't mind the warp-ins either since they weren't in your face annoying and generally appeared scattered throughout a rather large area. It beats the alternative of having the starting area be an obnoxious projectile hell part if all the stuff was there. I think the combat worked well to reflect the relaxing atmosphere of the midi and the exploration based nature of the map. I had enough ball-busting in map 22 anyways. Also, the whole "this map sucks without saves" is not a viable complaint as that's a personal gameplay choice and the author shouldn't be forced to make their map around imaginary rules a niche number of players enjoy following.

Having said all that I did encounter a few problems, mostly on the technical side.

Spoiler

1

That top "box" where the crosshairs are is apparently a switch that opens the blue bars blocking the lower area. It also feels kind of strange that if you fall there and open the bars you need to exit and make a large loop around to get back to the slightly higher tier and progress to the next room.

Spoiler

1

The two Arachnotrons are slightly expose and it's possible to rocket/chaingun snipe them before activating the fight below. Not sure if that's intentional.

Also, I ended up missing nearly 100 enemies despite finding the automap and hitting all the major areas. I think I was missing one secret and I forgot to use the "monster" command to check where the remaining dudes were.

[baja blast rd.]

map24

1) Opening shot plus music, wow. <3 <3 <3

2) This is probably the best-looking map I've ever seen. Quite amazing.

3) As great as this looks, the environment doesn't seem too fun to move around and fight in. Lots of 64-width spaces, with things like arachnotrons and AD heads littered around. Eh. Really inspires camp-and-snipe gameplay, which I don't like.

4) Music track is quite loud, drowning out a lot of the gameplay sounds. Luckily it's great.

5) The teleporter after the soulsphere leads me directly into . . . a point blank AD head. -_- Okay, still at 143% health and 148% armor, but wtf. Highly tempted at this point to reset and either play this map -nomonsters or on HNTR. Monsters have been detrimental to gameplay so far.

6) Even moving around is irritating me. I'm just going to watch a demo.

Anyway, I noticed a number of sky transfer mistakes in the second area. Here's one. Seems dependent on which direction you face.
http://i.imgur.com/zdUHNjP.png

There's a good chance this map will make my top five despite being unplayable, which is a testament to how awe-inspiring the visuals are :D

Suggestions: This would probably play better if the gameplay were more attrition-oriented. Not much health and armor. A much sparser population of well-chosen monsters, with low-tier monsters like imps and zombies dotted around where an area needs to look busy. A smaller number of well-chosen snipers. Anything that requires you to spend time to clear things out is fundamentally tedious given how awkward it can be to simply move around. The safe spots are completely safe (AD heads can't get to you), so it's not even like you're in danger -- it's just 1) stay put; 2) pop around the cover on awkward terrain and fire the shotgun a few times; 3) repeat until things are dead.