Already moved on

[snapshot]

I Don't think an Advanced level editor would change the fact that Multiplayer is dying, I mean check Doom 3, It is has a Better level editor, But it's Multiplayer is dead .

[Spectre01]

Use3D said:

..Except the new game has a level editor..out of the box.

Calling SnapCrap a level editor is giving it too much credit considering how limited it is. Nothing memorable will come from it that will keep people playing years down the line.

DMGUYDZ64 said:

I Don't think an Advanced level editor would change the fact that Multiplayer is dying, I mean check Doom 3, It is has a Better level editor, But it's Multiplayer is dead .

Multiplayer was a major afterthought in Doom 3 and did not receive nearly the amount of promotion by the devs as being a selling feature. Doom 3 was always a single-player game with some MP tacked on at the last minute for shits and giggles. It didn't even play well and very few people cared.

[MusicallyInspired]

Mod tools are not nearly as easy to make and keep bug-free as software from 25 years ago.

[snapshot]

MusicallyInspired said:

Mod tools are not nearly as easy to make and keep bug-free as software from 25 years ago.

And aren't as easy to use .

[MusicallyInspired]

Right. Your userbase diminishes significantly and at that point developers start to question whether it's worth it to support when not as many people will even be using it. I mean, I support mod tools if at all possible because there's always somebody willing and able to use them, but I'm just saying this is the choice developers are faced with and why they choose not to most of the time. Almost anybody can easily go in and build a Doom map. Try the same thing for Doom 3, Half-Life 2, or even Half-Life 1. I tried my hand at Gold Source mapping long ago and I just couldn't do it. I can't imagine doing something like that with nextgen games.

[Edward850]

MusicallyInspired said:

Mod tools are not nearly as easy to make and keep bug-free as software from 25 years ago.

And didn't exist. A lot of people have a habit of forgetting that the only "mod tool" that was released officially for Doom was DoomBSP.

[jazzmaster9]

MusicallyInspired said:

Mod tools are not nearly as easy to make and keep bug-free as software from 25 years ago.

This :)
I still stand by the fact that modern engines are hard to make custom mas for.
How many mapsets does Doom 3 have that are finished? Its already been 12 or so years since its released.
Even if modding tools become available it will never reach the level of a Slade and Doom Builder simply because the engine no longer works by lines and sectors. The best you can get are those "Alternate pistol skin" and "Better Textures" mod.

All SnapMap needs are more prefabs and a bit of tinkering and it can be viable for map design. Id/bethesda needs updates for that soon.

[Use]

rileymartin said:

Calling SnapCrap a level editor is giving it too much credit considering how limited it is. Nothing memorable will come from it that will keep people playing years down the line.

Regardless of your personal feelings for it, it's still a nice consideration from a large game studio made on behalf of the mod community...not something you see everyday and not really something that should be taken for granted. It's even being improved with future content patches. That was the point I was conveying to the ironically avatared Pinchy who made it sound as if the game was devoid of any extendability (funny, I don't recall Super Metroid having any official mod support..huh weird).

[jazzmaster9]

Use3D said:

funny, I don't recall Super Metroid having any official mod support..huh weird

It also lacks multiplayer kinda like Castlevaina, Nintendo has been coning us the whole time. I need 1/2 of my money back from that cartridge purchase.

Wit that being said, I appreciate the fact that ID did give us an editing tool, But i agree that It just ended up being to limited and console friendly(for the time being).

[Linheli]

I nearly finish my second play through on Nightmare. My first play was on Ultra-Violence. It was damn hard at the beginning due to massive damage of the enemies..basically one shot by fire ball of those imps. But you will get used to it soon after few levels with some upgrades..and I have no intention with Ultra-Nightmare..it was just too intense, not worth it.

[pro_zealot]

I don't like that the baron of hell jump, hellknight don't have firebals only mele attack. All game turn around arenas. Revenant instead of attack jump like stupid etc..... This new Doom i will call it "DOOM ARENA". Its console game period.

It was hard just to make DOOM HD REMAKE like serious sam HD remake?

[Chubzdoomer]

pro_zealot said:

I don't like that the baron of hell jump, hellknight don't have firebals only mele attack. All game turn around arenas. Revenant instead of attack jump like stupid etc..... This new Doom i will call it "DOOM ARENA". Its console game period.

It was hard just to make DOOM HD REMAKE like serious sam HD remake?

So basically what you're saying is that you aren't happy because it isn't a carbon copy of a game that came out over 20 years ago.

[Riccardoman]

pro_zealot said:

It was hard just to make DOOM HD REMAKE like serious sam HD remake?

SSHD was good, playable. Pamela Anderson at the age of 48 is good with a lifting, fuckable.
Painkiller Hell and Damnation was good, playable. Britney Spears at the age of 35 is good with a lifting, fuckable.
Doom HD Remastered Retextured Ultra Dolby Sorround would be good, playable. Demi Moore at the age of 53 is good with a lifting etc..
I can go on if you want

[Tritnew]

Guys, he doesn't have "zealot" in his name for nothing.

[Kontra Kommando]

Use3D said:

People seem to forget (probably because they weren't even around) that original Doom didn't come out the door with level editors, wad editors, or any supported tools of any kind. Rudimentary basic pwads didn't even start to appear for months after it's release. People had to make all that shit themselves. Doom4 has been out for what not even a month? Yeah I guess it's shit then.

I like how a lot of people criticized Left 4 Dead, for coming out with Left 4 Dead 2, a year later with minimal improvements.

Doom had done the same thing!

Doom (Dec 1993)
Doom II (Sept 1994)

"DEERRRR, VIDEOGaMES ARE nOT WHat THEY USED TO bE BAcK IN THE dAY! iTS ALL A cASH GRAb!"

[Kontra Kommando]

MusicallyInspired said:

Mod tools are not nearly as easy to make and keep bug-free as software from 25 years ago.

However, that hasn't inhibited people from creating a thriving mod community:

http://www.nexusmods.com/games/?

Even if they don't make more editing tools, or modding tools; someone else will.

Nexusmods is not an official part of Bethesda, it was a fan site.

[jazzmaster9]

pro_zealot said:

It was hard just to make DOOM HD REMAKE like serious sam HD remake?

Making Doom HD is really easy, but wont be as interesting as the Doom 2016 we got right now. If you wanna play classic Doom. Get a copy of PrBoom and play it.

[snapshot]

Or :
http://www.moddb.com/games/doom-iii
http://www.moddb.com/games/doom2remake
http://www.moddb.com/games/doom-modern-graphics
http://www.moddb.com/games/doomue4
http://www.moddb.com/mods/classic-doom-3

[MusicallyInspired]

Kontra Kommando said:

However, that hasn't inhibited people from creating a thriving mod community:

http://www.nexusmods.com/games/?

Even if they don't make more editing tools, or modding tools; someone else will.

Nexusmods is not an official part of Bethesda, it was a fan site.

What is your point?

[Kontra Kommando]

MusicallyInspired said:

What is your point?

That there could still be plenty of great mods, despite how much more complex it would be to make them, compared to classic doom.

[MusicallyInspired]

I never disagreed with that notion. I just said there would be fewer users.

[Kontra Kommando]

MusicallyInspired said:

I never disagreed with that notion. I just said there would be fewer users.

Nevertheless, there could be some newcomers because of it. People that want to utilize skills for creating modern games.

Something I could definitely see turning people off, however, is the complexity of simply installing these mods. It is pretty difficult, and requires a lot of careful set up.

btw, I wasn't arguing with you, I was just making a statement.

[MusicallyInspired]

Yeah, it's true.

[TheMightyHeracross]

Off topic but:

DMGUYDZ64 said:

If you're talking to me (:P) Then no, I'm saying that Multiplayer needs More Modes like CTF and FFA .

Good news man
https://www.doomworld.com/vb/doom-2016-general/88927-doom-to-get-a-official-vr-edition-amongst-other-goodies/
lol you made a thread about it already nvm

[snapshot]

Yeah i heard that, Can't wait to have my hands on more modes (Especially FFA), Thx .

[Reisal]

Only time will tell if this new addition will do anything to stem the gradual disappearance of the MP.