Cereal Killer (21 maps complete) Looking for community input!

[Doomkid]

Don't hesitate to ask any time you need deh/bex editing done for this, Crunchy. I'm currently looking into a way to prevent those little shadow assholes from dropping bullets, got an idea I'll try once home!

[Scotty]

Unlike AnonimVio i could launch in GLBoom ok (mine is probably an old version though), although i did notice what might be a Boom-specific bug in map07: the keys don't appear on the ledge above the one intended and thus cannot be replaced.

Also, regarding map08 again - i did change the music in that from what i had placed originally, seeing as you asked for 'new' midis. The latest wad version has the old music.

[AnonimVio]

I'm trying to make a map for this since you mentioned the custom monsters.

[boris]

Really like those maps. Some things, though:

- What's with the massive difficulty spike of map06? Seems completely out of place compared to the other maps

- Map12: you can skip the end fight (about 1/3 of the monsters). The line (#1025) that blocks the way back from the "red wall switch" is W1. So you can trigger it, not press the red wall switch, but jump down the the RL and just backtrack your way up to the red wall switch again. Then press this switch and go back through the entrance.

- If a floor is damaging or not is not consistend throughout the maps. I think it's really annoying if you have to test out if nukage/blood is damaging in this map or not.

[Crunchynut44]

scotty said:

Unlike AnonimVio i could launch in GLBoom ok (mine is probably an old version though), although i did notice what might be a Boom-specific bug in map07: the keys don't appear on the ledge above the one intended and thus cannot be replaced.

Also, regarding map08 again - i did change the music in that from what i had placed originally, seeing as you asked for 'new' midis. The latest wad version has the old music.

Yeah I can't seem to recreate the problem in GL Boom either, sorry about that.

Hmm? Im not too sure what you mean, the keys work fine for me.

Ahh crap sorry man, ill have that fixed with the next update! :P



@AnonimVio: Wow man! That looks incredible, I can't wait to play it!


@Boris: That's Rdpda's map, when the Wad is more complete that will be moved to a later slot, most likely the mid-20's.

Good spotting, ill definitely have that fixed with the next update, thanks for playing.

Yeah that's bound to happen when it comes to community projects, not much you can do about it.

[baja blast rd.]

I got sidetracked trying to get a sub-3:30 max run on map12 and then stopped and forgot to post about it. Anyway, here's a (boring) FDA and a (much less boring) early speedrun exit. (I like the megapshere secret. OP for casual playthroughs but makes fast runs a lot less frustrating.)

http://www.mediafire.com/download/um86iiif8g5l8zi/cknt12_12.zip

This would actually be my favorite map of those included but the RK setup doesn't really work in ports with infinite height. You have to do the thing where you stand on one side to herd monsters there so you can drop down on the other, which is metagamey and draws attention to the engine limitations in an inelegant way. Shame because it's a cool setup. I died in the FDA because the AV attacked immediately after warping in, and I somehow missed the BFG tracers (which means that whoever doesn't find the BFG secret is probably dead anyway quite a good amount of the time). I had to pee so I stopped recording there. (Didn't piss myself during the trap reveal though.)

Edit: A good alternative would be having the monsters for a given tier warp in right after the player drops down to it, which should be pretty easy to do with walkover floor lower triggers and small barriers right behind teleport lines.

[Scotty]

Map07 key problem... Boom only. I guess making the key platform a tiny bit bigger would do the trick? Needs to be fixed though cause you can't grab the keys otherwise.

[baja blast rd.]

Which -complevel are you playing on? I've seen things like this happen on default (-1) but not 9. (If you're using -1, it also probably makes this map a lot harder, because monsters infight a lot less easily :D.)

[Scotty]

I run Boom on Complevel 2 usually, i think.

[baja blast rd.]

That probably explains it. -cl 2 will also pretty much break any level that requires Boom-specific triggers, since it emulates vanilla.

[NaZa]

Played through the first 5 maps. UV, but continuously.

MAP01 is pretty nice, I enjoyed the traps, especially all the ones concerning Revenants. I actually feared going through the level because of the Revenants haha. The map's layout is great, everything is basically in the same area and it's all interlocked, so you can see your goal before you get it. You pulled that off nicely. Also nice AV ending.

MAP02 is easier than MAP01 for me, but that may just be my continuous playthrough. I liked the end battle, when the revenants pop up. And you might think "EH NOW I'M DONE" but then that Arachnotron shows up and possibly destroys you if you're not cautious enough.

MAP03 is easier than both of those. More high tier monsters but less difficult. The interlocking in this one was perfect, you had one higher area and one lower area, and I loved that. Also, was doing SR50 (or maybe 40) to get the Super Shotgun intentional? Again a good AV exit there.

MAP04 is much harder than the other ones. Everything sees you instantly, not like in the other maps. The Arachnotron snipers drove me insane. The monster usage in this map was excellent, and I liked the Imps/Shotgun Guys teleport in the higher corridor, when they exit the door and just teleport next to you.

MAP05 is even harder; in this map you have the freedom to go for the one or another key first, and it's really nicely done. The AV trap with no cover and Imps to resurrect on one side, and the Mancubus teleport with more monsters on the other side. Again, nice ending with the Arachnotron ambush.

I like this mapset so far, especially its interlocking and connection between places! I'm looking forward to it!

[rehelekretep]

scotty said:

I run Boom on Complevel 2 usually, i think.

scotty, boom should be run on complevel 9, or -1 in rare cases

[baja blast rd.]

Tentative new version of my map. Most of the changes were to the last fight, which now has monsters other than AVs too. It should be more lenient now, and I like the nuance of having another enemy type in the fight.

(for other viewers: Rambo strats not obligatory. :P Secrets ignored. Demo in gamma two to offset YT degradation.)

[Crunchynut44]

Im not too worried about bugs with vanilla, since some maps utilize cl9 that's the overall requirement it needs to be played with.

@DoomLover234: Thanks so much for playing man, im really glad you liked the levels thus far. Hopefully you'll enjoy whats left to offer too as well as the maps from other members! Thanks for noting the interconnection of the levels too, I work extra hard to make this a seamless aspect of my mapping.

rdwpa: Looks good, I like the usage of the new Baron in the final warp in. Looking forward to playing it myself!


Sorry guys ill be MIA for the next few weeks, ive been a bit slack with my uni work and need to catch up, plus with work I don't have time for Dooming at the moment sadly.

[Crunchynut44]

rdwpa said:

I got sidetracked trying to get a sub-3:30 max run on map12 and then stopped and forgot to post about it. Anyway, here's a (boring) FDA and a (much less boring) early speedrun exit. (I like the megapshere secret. OP for casual playthroughs but makes fast runs a lot less frustrating.)

http://www.mediafire.com/download/um86iiif8g5l8zi/cknt12_12.zip

This would actually be my favorite map of those included but the RK setup doesn't really work in ports with infinite height. You have to do the thing where you stand on one side to herd monsters there so you can drop down on the other, which is metagamey and draws attention to the engine limitations in an inelegant way. Shame because it's a cool setup. I died in the FDA because the AV attacked immediately after warping in, and I somehow missed the BFG tracers (which means that whoever doesn't find the BFG secret is probably dead anyway quite a good amount of the time). I had to pee so I stopped recording there. (Didn't piss myself during the trap reveal though.)

Edit: A good alternative would be having the monsters for a given tier warp in right after the player drops down to it, which should be pretty easy to do with walkover floor lower triggers and small barriers right behind teleport lines.

I almost forgot to reply to this, but I have to thankyou because I have always loved watching speedruns and to see someone speedrun one of my maps was amazing! I couldnt agree more that the warp in needs to be fixed and nerfed as far as that first AV is concerned.

Again thanks for both demos, they were a lot of fun for me to watch!

[Seele00TextOnly]

UV, pistol starts, 100% kills

Map 01

Very solid gameplay and ammo distribution. Looks great too! Ought to change the map names within the wad though.

Map 02

Really liking the layouts so far. This one may be a bit easier than the first map; I recommend just a bit more ammo starvation if possible. Had 54 cells leftover at the end and never really felt wanting for ammo. Double PE ambush at the YK was pretty tough, nice usage.

Map 03

For the pickups for the early stained glass secrets, I couldn't find out what I'd gotten until reloading a each time. Perhaps place the items further in so one sees it before getting it? The BK fight was pretty cool, especially because I hadn't killed the Hellknight-types yet and they ported up there. Ammo balance is tight and perfect. Never could find what the second secret was but that's fine. Surprisingly tough and effective map for such low monster count.

Map 04

Another double PE attack at the YK; even with Berserk and Chainsaw, there's something particularly vicious about these in a mapset where the author is obviously very ammo conscious. I like it. Later on in the monster closet that houses the switch that lowers the bars to the RK, while running around in combat, I teleported from one of the lines apparently. I couldn't replicate this but I think maybe it could be fixed by making the teleport lines in there monster-only? The BK seems completely unnecessary in that the switch for it and its pickup both do not trigger any attacks and are all in the same small room, so that felt a little strange to be honest. Perhaps more combat could be added there somehow?

[Scotty]

rdwpa said:

That probably explains it. -cl 2 will also pretty much break any level that requires Boom-specific triggers, since it emulates vanilla.

Yup. I was just confused as to why it would cause such a bug though.

[Seele00TextOnly]

Map 05

Early plasma only is pretty cool. Once one rounds the first corner of the river at the beginning and can pick off the Chaingunners, there is a Revenant standing idle and deaf quite visible. Probably ought to hide it better or let it hear fire in the vicinity, as it looks sort of goofy standing there as I kill the Chaingunners and eventually Hellknight around it. The single Revenant that ports in upon grabbing the YK is a bit of a weak encounter; I suggest having two come in, or add Cacos from somewhere. The RK and BK port-ins are pretty tough, I liked them. The Arachnotron ambush at the end was nigh impossible without immediately hitting the switch and fleeing as I was out of plasma. Not necessarily a complaint but just passing it along. Great layout and detail.

Map 06

A very dicey start! Darted into the rocketlauncher alcove, and once I had eliminated the port-in Revenant horde I was out of ammo, making proceeding very tough. Perhaps there should be more rockets in there or some shells as well? The ammo balance in the mapset has been so solid I hesitate to recommend much but something might be in order. Made my way to the plasmarifle and then darted into the perimeter water where I ran into the berserk secret. After some tyson action, I was all set to clear stuff out. Found the secret backpack, the YK, and the RK without incident. The YK port-in fight was decidedly anemic compared to the RK one; perhaps add Cacos? The Archvile fight at the end is very, very tough. Had to save scum it a bit to be honest; though I suppose retreat was an option. Two Chaingunners never ported in; they were in the monster closet off the map that also houses a Soulsphere. However I never could find two of the secrets, so perhaps they have something to do with those.

[baja blast rd.]

Yeah I got rid of the YK warp-in, because I felt it might appear to be the real YK fight, which was truly the mass closet opening before that. Ty for the suggestions.

[Seele00TextOnly]

Map 07

I liked the use of the special map07 sector effects in this map. It may have been standard stuff but amidst the madness of the map it felt nice. There certainly was a lot of chaos generated at each stage of it, and I definitely appreciate the secret that allows you to telefrag the Cyberdemon instead of having to go through the chore of fight it the usual way. This map,though, utterly showers one in ammo in its final incarnation: i had full compliment of shells with more to spare and 50 extra rockets along with 300 extra cells. But I realize it's hard to ammo balance the chaos type of gameplay and still allow the player to chose their methods of dealing with the horde.

Map 08

Really interesting layout, I thought. The encounters were okay, nothing too challenging, but I guess all maps don't need to be. The ammo balance is a bit generous in this map too... I left with 50 shells and 172 bullets. I didn't tyson more than a couple Pinkies, so I guess it's sort of feeling like the tight perfect ammo balance of some of the early maps is slipping away as the wad progresses which is a bit unfortunate. Anyway every map definitely continues to look great.

Map 09

Time to storm a ship at sea! This is a pretty cool concept map and is executed quite well. I hate to be a broken record but my biggest issue with this map is the ammo situation as well. Although this time it's about the distribution... early on there are many ammo problems, one easily runs out while fighting the Demons and later the Cacos. I feel there would be little harm to the intended balance of the map if the berserk pack were given at the outset instead of later on after hitting the yellow switch, at which point it was quite useless. By the end of the map I had found 3 of the secrets and had 200 bullets, 50 shells and 15 rockets and I never used the berserk even once. So I feel like the balance here has room for improvement in some respects. I like the map a lot.

Edit: 'extra shells' should have been 'extra cells' in Map 07 comments.

[Crunchynut44]

Thankyou for playing so far Seele00TextOnly! I have read and re-read your thoughts multiple times and will be sure to take you up on your advice, particulary where ammo balance is concerned as that is something I like focussing on. I wont really do gritty details such as map names until the wad is close to complete, just to save time for me as I prefer to get things done in one sitting. Again thankyou for taking the time to play, I hope you like the rest as well! Looking forward to hearing you thoughts.

[Seele00TextOnly]

And thank you very much for your kind words, Crunchynut44. It's been a pleasure.

Map 10

Another nice interesting layout map. Not sure if it's a bug but reporting anyway: the 'actual' switch in the YK room is easily pressed before the feint switch; i think most players might go to this seeking secrets in the room first or a way to lower the blue armor. The Archviles certainly make for a surprise when one thinks they're secret hunting. After one proceeds up the yellow switch lift and walks along the high ground, they're supposed to drop in on two Mancubi and an Arachnotron. They however crowd the entrance really soon, and having such large sprites and being so far down I think they would pose a problem in terms of progression for those using no mouselook and infinitely tall sprites. As is I kind of darted in over them, which probably counts as some sort of cheating. Oh and the Cacos and Grey Cacos infight quite a bit but I'm sure that's been seen already, just mentioning. The combat in the map was all pretty good, and the ammo balance is back to form being spot-on and tight.

Map 11

Cool map. Nothing too fancy going on here but it does look nice and the layout is solid. The gameplay doesn't stand out to me too much aside from the final fight with the Cyber and all the Lost Souls from the PE's. Taking down the Cyber can be pretty tough depending on your armaments leftover, which is fine. I had to finish it off with shotgun and I think that's okay especially for a few shots. No problems found and nothing to suggest, so not much to say!

Map 12

Very tough one, this is. Again the berserk is sort of just given away two thirds through the map with little use for it from that point on; perhaps drop it very early so that one, if mad enough, could go on some tyson running against the Archons, Hellknights, and Mancubi that occupy so much of the opening area? Never could find either of the secrets, and I ended up wishing I'd left the Cyberdemon alive to infight with the Mastermind for when it shows up later. As there is no cover from the Mastermind on ones approach to and much of ones battle with it, one really does require a substantial health to make the run at it without resorting to something like cheese tactics from below. To this end I speculate that a closet opening up in the water that has some health replenishment for after dealing with the two Archviles and friends prior to the assault on the Mastermind might be in order, if that is at all convenient.


Overall comments so far:

Unlike most times when there are monster replacements, I have appreciated the ones employed here. The Baron replacement is stepped up, as is the Imp one. They aren't both used in conjunction with their replacements thankfully, as that would feel like monster clutter. I do sort of wish the Imp replacements and Grey Cacos could show up more going forward, as they pose unique added challenge. I like everything this mapset has going for it, from the emphasis to smaller contained maps with low count but high intensity monster encounters, to the aesthetics employed, to the usual focus on ammo tightness. It's just a really cool mapset and I recommend it for fun, will be interested to see where it goes from here. Cheers!

[Crunchynut44]

Map 13 is done, particularly proud of this map!

Updated the OP with the DL link. I have also completed the layout of map 14 just need to populate it now. So expect to see that within the next few days, thanks!

[Pinchy]

Thanks for the playthrough and good feedback, I don't get much of that these days.

I moved the berserk right up to the start and adjusted some of the small ammo so there's more at the beginning.

V0.97

[baja blast rd.]

FDA for map13: http://www.mediafire.com/download/ryquwbprkeirlcy/cknt13_rdwpa_fda.lmp

Nice one as usual, I love these layouts, they are very interlaced and vertical and use a lot of textures in a coherent way. The first two key fights were underwhelming, especially compared to the complex start scenario. The soulsphere secret didn't feel like a secret, because back when I hit the switch that apparently made it accessible, in the yard below, I didn't connect it to that particular secret. Also with key bar doors, it's often a good idea to put a trigger to open the doors on a two-sided linedef adjacent to the bars and between them, as such: []__[]__[]__[], just to make it easier to open quickly (I think I 'missed' a few times, owing to how much empty space there is).

[Killer5]

Hi. Here are some FDAs of maps 01-07. I played the I am enjoying the set so far.

https://www.doomworld.com/vb/post/1671382

Because I primarily play slaughter stuff I'll primarily comment on maps 06 and 07.

Maps 01-05:
I played the first few maps a while back but I didn't really remember too much.

I never really got lost. Some of the traps are fun. However I feel like placing cells in areas where there are traps makes things incredibly obvious that something is about to happen. I basically just saved plasma for these situations.

What I really like is that all the maps seem to increase in difficulty nicely.

Oh the ssg secret in map 2 is way too free. Something has to happen when you grab the ssg.

The maps are very pretty.


Map 06 (edited after more thought):
Fun map. However it feels out of place after playing the initial 5. My primary gripes comes from the rl fight and the final area.

The rl fight needs more rockets and revs. I got hit a few times but it was whatev. If the player grabs the soulsphere before this fight you can add even more reward to finding that soulsphere secret by adding many more revs and more rockets. With prior knowledge of what exactly will happen here you should be able to crush the revs np.

The bfg makes the final fight easy with only a couple viles at a time. The group of 4 at the end was fine but I feel like more can be added with a bit more cells to add some extra challenge on uv. I wasted a soulsphere and still completed this comfortably.


Map 07:
Another fun map. Caused my death in my playthrough so far derping it around the revs in the 2nd phase.

My main issue with this map is that there isnt really a lot of pressure put on the player in the first phase if the player hides behind one of the blocks like I do. Every fat monster infaught with the rest. Then all you are left with is imps. I suggest doing something to force the player to use plasma more aggressively. Maybe spawn a few imps or something in the areas behind the blocks to force some more pressure on the player.

The key elevators are too easy. They are only guarded by one super baron (I don't know what this monster is). There should be a lot more stuff in those elevators to make things interesting.. or maybe spawn different types of enemies in the arena after grabbing each key. I felt like the keys were too free.

Also maybe consider releasing the cyb or something after a set amount of time. He was never really a threat and releasing him during the 2nd phase fight at some point would make things interesting.

[Scotty]

Map 13 is solid as always. I really liked the opening as there are a whole load of ways to approach it. I think my only comment would be the spacing of health, perhaps the berserk secret could be accessible after the initial onslaught as i was screaming for it then - by the time it is accessible, so is the soulsphere and so it feels less useful. You could even simply swap the blue armour and the berserk and it'd work just fine with the map flow - the punches would be useful early on - more so than the chainsaw, which seemed a bit pointless to me.


I'll review my maps and upgrade the ammo as suggested earlier by Seele00. I think i may try and improve the looks as well, cause i feel as though my maps look a touch inferior to everything else in this project so far.

[Demonologist]

FDAs for the current compilation posted in the OP, the wad itself is inside the zip as well to avoid confusion further on. No deaths.
Fun stuff, things start off very easy but there's definitely a steady increase in both difficulty and complexity of the maps, slow enough to still be pretty lenient, at least at this point. If it's going to be a full megawad one day, however, then I'm pretty sure there will be enough time for things to get meaner eventually.

Aesthetically everything looks nice and well-made, the combination of castle-like architecture and sewer textures on 13 looked a bit odd to me, but that's really the only issue I can remember, and even then - I believe it's largely subjective.

Rdwpa's map was my favorite, though that was to be expected, he's like a Ribbiks' lost sibling with his own twist (I must say that I'm totally fine with the timed AV rush in the finale, felt fun enough to me as is), yet I agree that objectively it clashes with the rest of the maps. Not that bad as far as the variety of styles and gameplay approaches is concerned, but still. But yes, with bigger number of contributors/more submissions from current ones such differences are inevitably going to be mitigated, so no biggie I presume.

Will be definitely waiting for more, this project has a very good potential. Liked the new monsters as well, it always makes me smile when I see chaps from R667's bestiary being adapted to classic map formats. Keep it up!

[Scotty]

*ignore*

[Killer5]

Here is a vod of all of the maps played from pistol starts.

My comments from earlier still stand. Just really looking forwards to the release of the wad after what I have played!

https://www.twitch.tv/mrzzul/v/91265972