The Pinky/Worm

[Voros]

It seems that even though shooting it causes red blood to appear, its death animation has green blood/goop. Can someone make a red blood version, just to see whether it works? I'm justing pointing out that it's a bit weird aesthetically.

Thanks for hearing me out.

[Hexereticdoom]

Hi there, did you mean this?

[Voros]

Yeah! could you lower the amount of blood on the flesh, so that the pink colour of the flesh can be seen? It looks like it got gibbed.

[Hexereticdoom]

OK, here's a second attempt:

[raymoohawk]

honestly the regular version looks better

[Voros]

Dont get me wrong. The regular version is cool, but some players might ask themselves "why does die with green blood, when shooting it causes red blood?"

Also, i dont see why changing that is a bad idea.

[HorrorMovieRei]

Doom had enemies with blue/green blood that bleed red when shot. It's no big deal.

[Dragonfly]

I might be wrong in saying this, but I assume it wouldn't hurt compatibility to inclue ZDoom lumps so that when played in ZDoom and associated engines they bleed the right blood etc? I'm pretty sure it wouldn't break mod compatibility since this IWAD will always be the first to load?

[HorrorMovieRei]

I think that would require them to define new actors for the freedoom monsters, like how they did for the Chexquest actors. The problem is that, although they're essentially the same, they are still different actors, so it would hurt compability with mods that replace said monsters.

Unless you're talking about putting the lump in the Iwad itself, in which case I guess it could work. Not 100% sure, but I think it could.

[Dragonfly]

I guess I see the issue yeah. I'm no decorate expert, but is it not possible to redefine an already existing actor? Or perhaps an actor that inherits itself?

actor Cacodemon : Cacodemon replaces Cacodemon {
    BloodColor "blue"
}

OR perhaps this?

Spoiler

actor Cacodemon {

  Health 400
  Radius 31
  Height 56
  Mass 400
  Speed 8
  PainChance 128
  BloodColor "blue"
  Monster
  +FLOAT
  +NOGRAVITY
  SeeSound "caco/sight"
  PainSound "caco/pain"
  DeathSound "caco/death"
  ActiveSound "caco/active"
  Obituary "$OB_CACO"
  HitObituary "$OB_CACOHIT"
  States
  {
  Spawn:
    HEAD A 10 A_Look
    Loop
  See:
    HEAD A 3 A_Chase
    Loop
  Missile:
    HEAD BC 5 A_FaceTarget
    HEAD D 5 Bright A_HeadAttack
    Goto See
  Pain:
    HEAD E 3
    HEAD E 3 A_Pain
    HEAD F 6
    Goto See
  Death:
    HEAD G 8
    HEAD H 8 A_Scream
    HEAD IJ 8
    HEAD K 8 A_NoBlocking
    HEAD L -1 A_SetFloorClip
    Stop
  Raise:
    HEAD L 8 A_UnSetFloorClip
    HEAD KJIHG 8
    Goto See
  }
}

Or something of that sort? I've never tried to replace an actor with itself. Correct me if I am wrong. :)

[HavoX]

Dragonfly said:

I guess I see the issue yeah. I'm no decorate expert, but is it not possible to redefine an already existing actor? Or perhaps an actor that inherits itself?

actor Cacodemon : Cacodemon replaces Cacodemon {
    BloodColor "blue"
}

AFAIK when you inherit an existing actor, the name of that inherited actor must be different.

[HorrorMovieRei]

You can't replace it with itself, but with a nearly identical copy, so to speak.
If you make an actor named "cacodemon" that inherits from the cacodemon and replaces the cacodemon, it won't work because it has the same name, making it so it conflicts with the very monster it is inheriting from. To make it work, you'd have to name it something different, just one character is enough. For example, I like to just put a "0" after the name, so it should look like this

actor Cacodemon0 : Cacodemon replaces Cacodemon 
{
    BloodColor "blue"
}

Upon reflection, I think putting a decorate lump in the Freedoom Iwad wouldn't be such a good idea. I'm no ACS expert, but I think there's some mods which use ACS that check monster types by name, so replacing them would cause the script to not work for that particular monster.

[Blastfrog]

I actually like this new version a lot better, the colors are much more complementary. I always thought the orange blood was ugly as shit.

As for sourceport specific stuff changing the visuals, I'm against that. It should be consistent to how it will look in vanilla (when the project is truly vanilla compatible).

That isn't to say that supplementary stuff like obituary strings are bad, we very much need those. I'm a bit confused though, where are they kept? I can't find them in either the Freedoom IWADs or zdoom.pk3 after a cursory search. In any case, they ought to be kept in the IWADs and not zdoom.pk3 so that the Freedoom maintainers have control over it in case any changes are needed, as opposed to having to get the ZDoom maintainers to do any changes.

[wildweasel]

The obituaries in ZDoom are stored in Language lumps; if I remember correctly, those can be found in zdoom.pk3 as language.enu, among others for different languages. The Decorate definitions for the default actors all reference those language strings.

[MrFlibble]

Sodaholic said:

I actually like this new version a lot better, the colors are much more complementary.

Agreed. The second version is pretty nice.

[Voros]

Let's do a voting.

All in favour of hexereticdoom's revised death scene?

[Jon]

Hmm. The revised sprites look quite nice, but the last few frames are too monochromatic imho. I do like the original sprite having some kind of weird yellow puss colouring in it, but agree it would be better if the blood matched. The zdoom discussion was an interesting one. I wonder if this could be an opportunity to come up with a way of defining monster blood colour for other ports? If we come up with a sensible proposal we could see if doom retro, crispy doom, eternity etc would accept it.

In short I don't think we should close down discussion and change the sprites just yet.

[TheMightyHeracross]

Voros said:

Let's do a voting.

All in favour of hexereticdoom's revised death scene?

I like it, particularly the second version with more pink skin.

[DooManic]

/me likes the first revision better.

[MrFlibble]

I think some comparison shots of what either version looks in-game (in different lighting conditions etc) would be nice. Anyone?

[Voros]

That would be a good idea to truly test if this death scene can work properly.

Can anyone make a small PWAD for this? We'd be grateful.

[Hexereticdoom]

Sure! Here you have a ZIP file with both versions, each one in an independent PWAD:

http://www.mediafire.com/download/ggnnj556jn42ypq/FreeDoom_Worm_Death_Preview.zip

Glad to contribute on FreeDoom's cause! ;)

[Voros]

It seems the sprites in the WAD aren't loading with Freedoom on PrBoom+ and GZdoom.

Why? I keep seeing the regular death scene.

[scifista42]

Because the sprites in the wad aren't between sprite markers. The wad probably wasn't meant to be played as is, but to be a compilation of the sprites to rip them from into the main freedoom wad. (or wasn't it?)

[Hexereticdoom]

Maybe the loading order isn't correct?

Perhaps the IWAD is overwriting the patch file, you should try editing GZDoom's INI autoload section, or loading it with a shortcut, it should work this way...

[Voros]

@scifista, do you mean that its just a collection, meant for viewing not playing?

@Hexereticdoom, I load the IWAD, then the PWAD (which replaces specific assets in the IWAD). That's not happening here, so.I'm guessing the PWAD is broken. What file format are the sprites in? Are they named properly?
My loading order is fine. Did you try it out yourself?

[scifista42]

Well, if you open the wads in SLADE3, you can see that the sprites aren't between sprite markers, which is why the engine doesn't recognize them as sprites and why they don't display ingame when you load the wad as a PWAD. Seeing Hexereticdoom's reply, he might have just forgotten to put the markers in.

[Voros]

Btw, i sent you a PM, Hexereticdoom. Please see it.

[Hexereticdoom]

Ouch... my apologies. I'm so used to work with PK3/PK7 files that sometimes I forget about the WAD basics... X(

Here you have the fixed WAD versions, markers included:

http://www.mediafire.com/download/g3go99ri1sa1z3d/FreeDoom_Worm_Death_Preview_Fixed.zip

Sorry for the inconvenience, hope this time they work OK.

@Voros: I have sent you my PM reply, please check it!

[Voros]

Ok got it Hexereticdoom!

In game, the first revision looks WAY better.

This should be commited.