The DWmegawad Club plays: Estranged

[baja blast rd.]

SteveD said:

The other explanation is that this is simply something most mappers tend to forget unless it's brought up in playtesting.

Yeah this for sure.

[Seele00TextOnly]

rileymartin said:

For that encounter, there's no lock-in so you can quite easily run out and lure the monsters to the ledge above the spawn area and force them to infight/clean up.

Yeah I did retreat though not down a ledge, just back down the winding hallways where I did clean up.

[mouldy]

MAP16 - "Battle Room”

Interesting looking place, I like the use of light and shade, and the oppressive geometry. This map seems to be all about the space, and how it is used to facilitate the fighting, whether it means hemming the player in or allowing them cover. Works quite well on pistol start, where finding that rocket launcher is a priority before you go picking up any keys (number of rocket boxes around the red key served as a pretty good hint to go get tooled up). I managed to get the yellow key without setting off the trap by the way, but I liked this map so I went back and set it off anyway. Everything was fairly manageable with a bit of care and attention, but then the last fight happened. Not sure how lucky you have to be with that fight, the winning solution appeared to involve immediate infighting. Not so hard I guess with a mastermind in the middle, but took me a few attempts. Feels like the difficulty is stepping upwards a touch.

[Pirx]

rdwpa said:

map16



Here's a video where I play the map:

pinkie hilarity ;)

[Salt-Man Z]

mouldy said:

I managed to get the yellow key without setting off the trap by the way

I did the yellow key last, and nothing happened besides 3-4 archies being released. I wondered at that, since the other two keys both released rather large ambushes. I assume the trap is just the archies (I did get max kills) but it felt odd at the time.

mouldy said:

but then the last fight happened. Not sure how lucky you have to be with that fight, the winning solution appeared to involve immediate infighting. Not so hard I guess with a mastermind in the middle, but took me a few attempts.

Yeah, infighting is the only way I could manage it. I was down to like 2 BFG shots (used the rest on the yellow key viles) and that was enough to charge the mastermind, but then I would get pinned in by pinkies and nailed from behind by revenant rockets. I finally ended up just running around the room in a circle, hugging the walls and letting the weaker baddies take out the spider, and then cleaned up using the SSG and using the cover afforded by the corner pillars to dodge the rockets.

[Magnusblitz]

MAP08: Reptile
100% kills, 3/4 secrets

Good ol' "gather three keys for the exit" map. I ended up going red-blue-yellow, which I think may be the optimal way for my enjoyment since the red path gives the SSG the quickest, and blue allows you to pick up the secret RL, which I actually found for once. Like MAP04, I think this map does a good job of showing the author's strengths, which is creating old-school maps with a lot of varied locales, which keeps things feeling fresh. Makes me not mind the linearity as much, at least, and the lack of grindy fights helps in this regard too, though I can also see how some would say the map needs more bite - after the opening ambush there's nothing very difficult. Still, one of the better maps so far.

[Demon of the Well]

Map 14 -- Fissure - 100% Kills / 100% Secrets - FDA
This one felt a lot like the thematic/conceptual sequel to "Venom" from earlier in the WAD, with another techbase dug into solid rock like a concrete pillbug of some sort, preceded by a jaunt through some dusty, upheaved terrain with a river of toxic waste flowing through. The emphasis on these two segments is here inverted, however, with the outdoor section comprising the meat of the map, and the base interior seeming to exist primarily to pad the length. Also similar to "Survey Centre" from earlier, the idea of the outdoor segment is to pepper the landscape with enemies of various types (gunmen, fireball-throwers, magic-homing-explosive-levitating-geode-launchers, etc.), tasking Estrangedguy with navigating an irregular playspace while being mindful of angles of fire, but despite the somewhat heavier opposition and theoretically more complicated terrain I think this is actually less of a to-do to deal with than the gulch-runs in said map, primarily because there are more convenient cover points and it's easier to steer clear of the drop into the ooze. In "Survey Centre", you pretty much had to resign yourself to periods of total exposure while clearing out snipers on the horizon (and many of whom you would never be able to physically close with), but in "Fissure" you can more easily chose a snipe-off, if that's your kind of thing. I prefer a more direct approach where it's practical, and the more complicated terrain allows you to barrel into it to look for more efficient angles of fire if you've the gumption, and so there's no need to deal with fire from distant revenants out of autoaim range indefinitely unless you allow it to happen. Many of the snipers can also be eventually met face-to-face later in progression assuming you've allowed them to live that long, and so if you know where you're going the majority of the level can boil down to a very simple corridor-shoot with little need for futzing around with crossfires and such.

The techbase stuff which comprises most of the second half of the map is quite nondescript, for good or ill. Oddly placed computer area map, that's for sure...it does actually show the secret area this time (as well as the tiny niche where the switch opening it is nestled, if you've a sharp eye), a bit of an oddity for this set, especially since the secret mainly contains rocket ammo which will be of little use to pistol-starters by the time the map is picked up, and only of slightly more impact for continuous players. Another minor thing that struck me was the blursphere in the short blue access tunnel before the last little bit of hiking--it's actually useful (though hardly essential), which is also a bit of a departure from what we've seen previously. A number of modern mappers have evidently made it a point to try to rehabilitate the blursphere's image as a useful artifact, but up until now Estranged has used them in the old-fashioned way, where they've been of dubious usefulness if not an outright powerdown, ala that first one way back in map 02.

Map 15 -- Floating Fortress - 101% Kills / 100% Secrets - FDA
Talk about old-fashioned! This is essentially a simple "Castle" map (as opposed to a map of some other sort with a castle-related theme), one of the archetypical layout types of the halcyon days of PWADing, up there with MYHOUSE/MYOFFICE/MYSCHOOL maps and modified IWAD maps stuffed with 300x more monsters. In essence, you take a long perambulation around the entirety of the outer deck (or the battlements, if you will) before you can finally penetrate into the massive yard in the fortress's center, and then do another perambulation around said yard before you can access the huge concrete bunker at its center (or the castle keep, if you will), where the normal exit is presumably located. Classic stuff, quite the nostalgia trip if you remember any of those castle-type levels (though whether the similarity here is intentional or not is uncertain), and a fresh way for Foodles to reframe what is more or the less the 15th iteration in the set of what he's been doing this whole time. That is, having us fight through a stage-dressed corridor of action (with a hearty dose of perched attackers) to occasionally spill out into a simplistic scuffle in a more open space.

I would imagine that getting into something like this does not come easy to a modern audience, especially considering that the map is easily three times as long as anything that's come before. The actual amount of pressure you're under is usually limited (and I would imagine is largely nonexistent if you come into the map with a full arsenal), encounters come in bitesized chunks, and much of the tactical play is purely positional in nature, rather than requiring a lot of twitch reflex or incessant dashing to and fro. As aforesaid, it's not actually much different than most of what has preceded it in that regard, but height differential between you and your enemies is a much more persistent factor, and the opposition is heavily slanted towards mid-tier Doom II enemies. Plenty of rockets, shells, and other ammo to dust them with (none of the weapons here are secret, for a change), too, and so things progress smoothly in that regard. The rhythm of combat is based heavily on cover and strategic charges through trenches, over baffles, into clearings and such--it is very simple stuff, and while I felt there's enough distinction between each of the four legs (or four faces of the fortress deck, rather) in what is required of you to keep things moving forward at a decent clip, the lack of categoric variety in encounters coupled with the relatively elongated progression does have the effect of lulling one into something of a mildly soporific state after while, which is not always unpleasant (a sentiment probably much more common among players who remember much simpler days), but can also lead to poor play and an eventual disengagement with the environment. I was very nearly killed (due to sloppy play) at one point while traversing the east face, but didn't really realize just how much danger I was actually in at the time until well after it had passed. Again, Foodles' preference for keeping the player at a basic power level having an effect, there.

The three keycards are all secret, used to remove the bars blocking a switch which lowers the teleporter pad leading to the secret level on one of the outlying islands. Only the first of these requires much active investment in secret-hunting in order to locate; the other two are essentially gimmes provided you're keeping your eyes peeled and exploring methodically. A fringe benefit for getting these for some players will be that taking the secret exit allows you to mostly bypass dealing with the arena at the map's center (though you do have to make at least one brief pass through it to reach the yellow keycard); otherwise finding them all is mainly to give you a little treat for climbing to the highest levels of the fortress, allowing you to look down on where you've been. On that note, visually I think this works well enough, though it is very stark by present standards, more notably so since it doesn't play with lighting as much as previous maps (Foodles appears to be an adherent of the school that holds that neutral-bright floodfill aided only by simulated contrast is natural/acceptable for wholly outdoor areas). It's the sort of thing that's more interesting as a whole or when viewed from afar (i.e. from way out in the water or from high up in the fortress's highest levels) than when you're actually working through the thick of it, certainly, though it's more than geometrically robust enough to ever seem bland. Sort of reminds me of an early Michael Krause level, something like that.

[Magnusblitz]

MAP09: Torture Chambers
79% kills, 0/2 secrets

Aptly-named one here, as this is a small but devilish affair, with lots of dangerous monsters in small, cramped confines, and for a large part all you have is the regular shotgun and chaingun to deal with them. The starting fight gave me a lot of trouble, quite easy to get surrounded. That's what I get for years of underestimating pinkies, I suppose. The barons can be run away from and you have the SSG by the time you reach the Arch-Viles, so not so bad there. Seems like a lot was hidden away in the secrets, unfortunately. Lots of spots here where items are placed in a spot they can't be avoided, which is annoying. Also, negative points for the unmarked exit.

[mouldy]

Salt-Man Z said:

I did the yellow key last, and nothing happened besides 3-4 archies being released. I wondered at that, since the other two keys both released rather large ambushes. I assume the trap is just the archies (I did get max kills) but it felt odd at the time.

i think the viles are the trap, its still a bit low key next to the other ones. Low key..

Looks like the trap trigger is so close to the key you can lean over it and grab the prize. I've learned to be wary of jumping off key shelves

[Steve D]

Map15

Props to Foodles for an architecturally impressive island fortress. It's not showy in a high detail way, but is exquisitely constructed and very convincing, with a lot of verticality and some occasional touches reminiscent of the great Michael Krause.

The gameplay, alas, is yet another Foodles Sniper Spectacular, with the usual suspects – Mancs, Arachnotrons and Chaingunners – guaranteed to make this, for me at least, a real sloggity-slog-slog experience. I aged eons playing this map. At one point, I had to adjust the voltage in my pacemaker to stay awake. ;)

Then suddenly – excitement! I finally reached the interior area loaded with shit-tons of enemies, both on the ground and – of course! – in sniper turrets. But at least there's variety and dynamism. So after allowing a bit of infighting to happen, I jumped into the fray. This turned into something at least close to the chaotic, unscripted encounters with very large numbers of monsters that I so enjoy. It wasn't quite there because too much reliance was placed, as usual, on armies of snipers, so the battle was much less fluid than it would have been if the ground forces were heavier and much, much meaner. The easy tactic to fall into, thanks to the overpowering snipers, was to make circuits around the central structure, kill the ground forces, and then shift to the snipers. But at least I was running and turning, and since running and turning is what makes me happy in Doom, I smiled.

It was only after this battle that I went and collected all the keys. Amusingly, when I found the red key, I didn't realize it, because it was hidden beneath a dead Manc. I knew I'd found something but failed to glance at my keys, so I spent an atrocious amount of time looking for the red key after that. I really have to cancel my prescription for Dumbass Pills. ;D

Now I was able to unlock the central structure for some more combat fun. Died twice in that encounter thanks to some foolish, impulsive play. I had previously died in the early going after sliding past the heavily fortified start area, then deciding some ways ahead that it was a good idea to make a stand in a corridor to take out the Nobles and Revvies following me. When Revvies came in behind me, they demonstrated just how foolish my plan was. Other than that, I suffered 1 or 2 deaths in Archie encounters, so about 5 deaths altogether. That is a moderate challenge by my standards, especially in a map with 375 monsters.

All in all, it's an okay map with excellent architecture and a strong MIDI brought down by a slow gameplay design.

[Demon of the Well]

Magnusblitz said:

The starting fight gave me a lot of trouble, quite easy to get surrounded. That's what I get for years of underestimating pinkies, I suppose.

I know, right? Seems like nearly every close call I've had in my playthrough thus far has involved pinkies (or specters) in some way. They seem to be another monster, like the Baron, that has fallen somewhat out of favor in recent years, but Foodles has been putting them to good use, often as space-hogs. His secret weapon, perhaps?

Map 31 -- The Tomb - 100% Kills / 100% Secrets - FDA
This one's cute. It strikes me as being something like a cheap (but authentic!) creepypasta in Doom map format, if that makes any sense. Sounds silly? Well, it is a rather silly little level, one that you can exit in all of a few seconds if you're thus inclined, with nearly all of what little gameplay it contains being optional. The setting is a small patch of rolling hills with a little brook running through it, with a nondescript grey edifice squatting on the edge of a pond to the east. Looks quite wholesome and nonthreatening under the bright starry sky, and the BGM selection evokes mental images of chipper little applecheeked gnomes singing and twirling merrily while happily working away in the dewdrop-mines or whathaveyou. This being Doom, the reality is of course slightly more dour than that, but only slightly, with nothing to threaten you topside but a few lazily milling groups of inept zombies (who ARE a mite applecheeked, incidentally) and perhaps a fringe risk that you might trip over one of the many potions or helmets littering the woodlands and scrape your knee.

Poke around the hills enough and you eventually find the three skull keys, which unlock the heavy wooden doors in the basement of the little grey building mentioned before. The mood shift down here is so exaggerated that the overall effect can only be interpreted as comedic in tone; there is a palpable sense that the set of doors was intended more to keep something IN than to keep anyone out, and the darkness is thick enough to cut with a knife (although with my particular rendering settings, 1600x900 software mode with 0 gamma correction, it is not actually too dark to see where you're going). You start tripping over shellboxes and eventually stumble into a glowing skullswitch with an SSG sitting in front of it and a crucified stiff beyond a grate nearby. Gee, wonder what happens next....?

Really silly and not very substantial, like I said, but a surprisingly credible atmosphere and decent concept. Solid choice for the map 31 slot.

Map 32 -- Void Walker - 73% Kills / No secrets - FDA
This is also a rather silly map, albeit in a very different way from map 31. I would describe it as a fresh-faced or even naive slaughtermap made by someone without an entirely firm grasp on what it is that really makes the genre tick, but perhaps that's terribly presumptuous of me, and it's actually supposed to be a commentary of some sort, or even another take on the Doom-comedy from map 31.

Big herds of powerful monsters packed into a series of huge open yards (and one smaller structure floating in the void for the finale), with ample ammo scattered about (though powerups are perhaps surprisingly very few in number), prime bait for the 'just run laps/circlestrafe' strategy that philistines have been painting as the core of the style for years now. Pretty easy to skip the vast majority of the content by simply running past it, though you probably have to deal with the situation in the final area in order to make it out alive. I didn't really have the time for a proper 750+ monster clear when I started playing, and frankly hadn't expected to encounter something like this in this particular WAD in the first place, and so a rather cavalier attitude emerges soon enough in my FDA. If you stick around to play the map 'properly', I reckon the core fights are probably palatable enough (if extremely vanilla/unrefined for this style of mapping), but cleaning out the monsters on the peripheral horizon most likely represents little more than unfulfilling menial labor and adds a lot of unnecessary runtime to what would otherwise be a pretty quick outing given its monstercount. The third area, with the outpost surrounded by hills and patches of ooze, is probably the most layered in terms of the amount of return-content you could wring out of it, but the most amusing is probably the final area, for which the map is presumably named. It seemed pretty intuitive to me....there is no realistic way you are NOT getting hurled off the platform sooner rather than later (on skill 4, at any rate), so it seemed natural there would be a way back up somewhere, and running for it at the proper time trivializes the encounter: just gobble that second V-sphere and spam firepower until victory.

Again, very silly. I suppose it's not hard to see this was probably intended to be in the general spirit of a good many other map 32s from notable mapsets of the past, whether it delivers or not on this affected lineage is probably largely a function of how seriously you're willing to take it. I'm still not entirely sure how seriously it takes itself....

[baja blast rd.]

Demon of the Well said:

Big herds of powerful monsters packed into a series of huge open yards (and one smaller structure floating in the void for the finale), with ample ammo scattered about (though powerups are perhaps surprisingly very few in number), prime bait for the 'just run laps/circlestrafe' strategy that philistines have been painting as the core of the style for years now.

For all those approaches are mentioned (far wider than just crude slaughter setups), it seems relatively rare in Doom (not just in "good" maps) for them to be the ideal strategy not only for minimizing damage but also for the sake of ergonomics. A good chunk of setups that are easily circle-strafable are also easily beaten by simply standing nearly still. I can't imagine circle-strafing something like three mancs in a relatively spacious room or, likewise, a lone cyberdemon.

[Steve D]

Map31

I kinda liked it. Nice, loopy layout showing the Foodles strength at generating naturalistic – by Doom standards – terrain. Wonderful MIDI, I loved it. Wasn't so crazy about the pitch-dark Archie encounter, but hey, I'm on continuous with a ton of cells, so once the Archies light up to make their shots, it's one casual BFG blast after another. I was suckered into waiting for the final Vile to come after me. I kept hearing him, got impatient, and found him behind a block monster line at the exit. D'oh!

Map32

Wherein we find a rather ham-fisted approach to slaughtermapping. Not a fan, I must say. After 6 tries, I got tired of trying to get good shots in on the Mastermind snipers and ran through the first 2 arenas. I made my stand in Arena 3 after dying at the Archie switch, but I had saved in a good location, so on the next attempt I decided to fight it out.

Combat was mostly circling the lower floor of the central building while I gauged the forces arrayed against me. The heavy snipers were mostly too far away for rocketing, and there was a butt-ton of monsters cluttered below the ledge who might pull down my rockets for a "Good at Doom!" suicide. I eventually jumped down there in hopes of some good infighting, but in the event I had to kill most of them myself before switching to the snipers. It was basically the central area of Map15 writ large, and I suffered remarkably few deaths given the size of the enemy forces and my tendency to slip on banana peels with depressing frequency.

I decided to cheese the Archie encounter by SSGing them through the side openings of their Spirit Door. Thanks, Foodles, for making that possible.

Then it was the Archie Clump, something I've never encountered before, so points for originality. Gameplay-wise, uhm, I dunno.

Anyway, this map was another fairly enervating experience.

[Spectre01]

Map 17: Twisted Realms

Very small E2-style map that plays a bit awkward from pistol start due to not having an SSG and a large number of meaty enemies. The start gives you jack shit so you have to run past the majority of the initial enemies to find a Rocket Launcher and then carefully use that on anything form Imps to Lost Souls since you don't get a Shotgun until you grab it from a Shotgunner's corpse. Slightly annoying lift+switch puzzle to grab the BFG, but it's useful for killing the Vile with the 2 Barons. Not much else to say really, other than I have no idea why I'm playing pistol start again.

[Steve D]

Map16

Finally, a map that I found fun and where I didn't feel bad about playing continuous.

Yes, I've been a bit butthurt over switching to continuous. It was those damned rocket boxes before the dark Archie/Revvie fight – in a map where pistol-starters could not get a rocket launcher -- that finally annoyed me enough to switch. Of course, I completed that map on pistol, but it's the principle of the thing. Since then, I've felt like I made a mistake and have robbed myself of entertaining deaths and difficult encounters, and naturally, I blame Foodles. ;D As the old saying goes, "He shouldn'ta oughta done that."

A few of us have speculated that maybe Foodles is making a commentary about, or having a few jokes at the expense of, the modern Doom Community and all of the pressures and expectations it lays upon the shoulders of mappers. There've been a few voices over the years – Memfis/Kuchitsu prominent among them – who've asserted that modern mapsets are bland and predictable as a result, and further, that '90s mapsets were better thanks to their unpredictable, quirky originality. As a '90s mapper myself, I don't believe that for a second, but to each their own. Where Foodles is concerned, maybe what he has actually done is not some stealthy trolling of pistol-starters, but instead an honest effort to create a '90s-throwback megawad complete with the quirky weirdness one often finds in them. If so, he has succeeded admirably.

OTOH, he has still produced an odd mapset. Instead of the usual collection of reasonably challenging maps punctuated by the occasional breather map, he's produced a megawad, so far, of breather maps punctuated by the occasional challenging one, and often, it comes across as either too little or too much, by which I mean the UV maps are typically dead easy – too little challenge – or bizarrely difficult for some players.

Map16 seems just right to me as a low stress but still fun experience for continuers. It's a bit odd to come in at 200/115 and find a Zerk blocking the door, but there it is, this is a Foodles map, so just accept the inevitable and grab it, punch a few Pinkies, and then start to dismantle this thing.

I took the red key challenge first, which was maybe the most difficult one for continuers because Revvies up close. But not that close, really, so I unloaded rockets, dodged most of their shots, then when only 2 were left alive, plus a few Hell Knights, I ran out, leaped into the starting area, and waited for the oafs to appear for a ritual slaughter. Next came the yellow key, perhaps the most disappointing challenge, since all you need do is run down the long corridor and wait for the Archies to follow you, at which point you unload rockets into them. The blue key battle was another "Rockets down the corridor" exercise, though I managed to slip on a banana peel the first time through – the maintencance staff should be scolded for leaving them all about – and suffered my only death as a result.

I decided to postpone the final encounter and look for secrets. I found the Soulsphere in the red key area after noticing that the structure separating the incoming paths was hollow, so I wall-humped my way to the fake wall and enjoyed the sudden boost to 200 health. I didn't find the other secret, though. Foodles can be very obtuse when it comes to hiding them.

The Mastermind setpiece was okay. I had a well-charged BFG, so screw infighting and bye-bye Spidey. What followed was some easy circling with Pinkes serving as meatshields for me while I sought to eliminate the Revvies. Alas, I accidentally ran over the exit with 1 Revvie left. Bummer!

The map looked nice and clean with some tasteful lighting. Even though it was quite easy on continuous, it was nonetheless satisfying to blow away so many mid-tiers and for once not spend 80% of my time clearing overhead snipers. It was just good, solid Doom action with one of my fave Doom 2 tracks as BGM.

[dobu gabu maru]

Demon of the Well said:

I didn't really have the time for a proper 750+ monster clear when I started playing, and frankly hadn't expected to encounter something like this in this particular WAD in the first place, and so a rather cavalier attitude emerges soon enough in my FDA.

This is just a quick personal interjection, but I have a wildly different attitude to large monster numbers nowadays than when I first started playing Doom wads. Back in my nascence I eagerly awaited the +600 monster maps and always had fun conquering them, whereas nowadays I'm far more cognizant of how they're used and more frugal towards spending my time on them. There was a certain bliss in my ignorance where I thought a map that took upwards of an hour was time well spent, but no longer can I merely circle strafe a massive horde of nobles and consider that "fun". That's part of the reason why if I'm not appreciating the gameplay of a megawad (Vile Flesh, Bloodstained), I bail before it starts getting lengthy.

[Seele00TextOnly]

Map 17

Gotta run for your life on pistol start in this map. Eventually got to a hallway where i had to pistol a few lost souls and a pinkie before finally getting a shotgun drop. I figured out the BFG secret early on but could not for the life of me get it legally, so I had to go without. Map was grueling when it came to combat in close quarters with very limitted ammo. I sort of liked it, though at times it was almost impossible such as with the Archvile encounter that i had to savescum the hell out of. Really could have used that BFG there. But anyway I prefer tight ammo balance to maps that throw everything at the player and let them get away with playing however they want to. I mean that's fine sometimes but a more disciplined map feels more like a refined experience. Anyway, this map is primarily a corridor crawl which in some ways works for the claustrophic combat and dread created but also means it's basically tunnels and corners: the motion picture. Thankfully it's at least short with a low monster count, so all in all i consider this a tasteful and successful map.

[Demon of the Well]

dobu gabu maru said:

This is just a quick personal interjection, but I have a wildly different attitude to large monster numbers nowadays than when I first started playing Doom wads. Back in my nascence I eagerly awaited the +600 monster maps and always had fun conquering them, whereas nowadays I'm far more cognizant of how they're used and more frugal towards spending my time on them. There was a certain bliss in my ignorance where I thought a map that took upwards of an hour was time well spent, but no longer can I merely circle strafe a massive horde of nobles and consider that "fun". That's part of the reason why if I'm not appreciating the gameplay of a megawad (Vile Flesh, Bloodstained), I bail before it starts getting lengthy.

I feel the same way about a lot of speedmaps, certain types of concept map, and very small/casual maps in general. They don't take much time to complete individually, it's true, but because they are often fragmentary, unmemorable, or even outright unfulfilling, it nevertheless feels like time wasted to me, ironic considering that one of the main selling points of such maps for folks who enjoy them is that they are very conscientious about not wasting a player's time. For my part, though, once I start something I will generally make an effort to finish it--I've seen enough mapsets that have stuff I wouldn't want to miss hidden among otherwise unremarkable fare, and I generally value the experience gained as applicable to my future Dooming--even if I know before it's even halfway finished that it's something I will most likely never play through again.

Map 16 -- Battle Room - 104% Kills / 100% Secrets - FDA
Had a lot of fun with this one. If map 13 seemed like the first time Foodles really began to strive to exert more concerted pressure on the player, this is perhaps the first time where he sees fit to step on the gas pedal from the get-go without ever really letting up. Interesting that the shift in pace accompanies a layout that's more non-linear than anything we've seen since "Reptile", as well; this is in fact another three-keys-in-any-order setup, but it is much more condensed than the aforesaid level and vastly more combat-focused. Pistol-starting leaves you feeling hemmed in from the outset with naught but a berserk fist to defend yourself, and so you've immediately got to finagle your way past the mancubus to the SSG, from which point you can try to fight out the ensuing cascade of hell nobles from your starting area (where ammo pressure becomes very real) or slip further into the bunker, rousing more and more of the gathered abominations thronging its halls and boardrooms. Sheer monster density feels significantly thicker than in any previous map (save for parts of m32, I suppose), and it's not comprised of smallfry either, so things can get pretty frantic. Monsters path around fairly well, too, so you'll have to stay on the move. While threat is higher, I feel like the map is actually more amenable to loose/rambo play than many of the earlier, more comparatively sedate offerings, simply because there's a lot more healing littered around than has been the norm. My gameplay in the FDA is pretty terrible, to whit, but I still made it through precisely because so many mistakes are allowed, provided one keeps moving and keeps fighting.

Each key-get includes a slew of new monsters upon collection, so the level of violence remains high, especially if you've not cleaned out the larger setting's initial occupancy before you start triggering these influxes. In contrast to "Reptile", where each key-leg was largely self-contained, the more condensed and centralized layout of "Battle Room" means that these bigger battles, while generally quite simple in concept (cadre of arch-viles who show up near the YK, generalized warp-in near the RK, deceptive two-pronged skeleton parade tied to the BK), can often play out in a number of different ways depending on what the player has already seen/done in the level and his/her willingness/ability to let the fights follow him/her into other parts of the level. This is capped off nicely with more of a proper setpiece in the central space, which makes a very credible (if usually momentary) threat of the spider mastermind and requires more panicked scrambling and crowd-controlling in a context where the RL (which is the only heavy weapon pistol-starters will have) is dangerous to the one holding it and where the ethereal insurgence is too rapid to make using the SSG/chaingun comfortable. I screwed up this fight something fierce (pinkies!!!!) but still limped out of it because the mastermind was momentarily stuck, and because I still had a big chunk of soulsphere to burn through (its secret actually shows on the map, uncharacteristically, though how to actually reach it is still not quite straightforward). Because I played so messily I decided to give this one a second go later on (the first map in the set I've felt like replaying, to whit), and I felt that it held up well--I had a very different but similarly fast-paced experience on my second, more learned go.

Visuals are again pleasantly clean and simple without seeming underwrought. Blue/grey is a very reliable color scheme for Doom and its default palette and stock textures, I think, and here the directional shadowcasting makes a concerted return to add moody inflection to many of the bunker's peripheral areas. Could've used some additional props, I felt--you know, corpses and occasional pools of blood/gore in the halls, stuff like that--but generally rock-solid in presentation. Easy to miss if you've come here from maps 31/32 instead of direct from m15, but the sometime environmental continuity Foodles has been using for the set adds some extra flavor to an otherwise fairly abstract setting in this case: this big squarish space is the defcon xx bunker beneath the building at the heart of the floating fortress, meaning it is presumably underwater (which would conveniently explain some of the more soiled/stressed bits of structure), and its name is not necessarily a function of the combat that takes place there but rather a reference to its purpose (a war council HQ) before being overrun by hellspawn.

[Magnusblitz]

MAP10: Deadlands
100% kills, no map secrets

Reading the other comments here, I expected to hate it, but I didn't. I've always had a soft spot for E3M2 though, and it reminds me a fair amount of that (and E4M6's start of course). Didn't really have any issues with using the minimap to get around, aside from not knowing the switch in the middle of the map had opened up at one point. There is some pretty poor Pain Elemental ammo tax going on, and the map takes a sharp nosedive when it just turns into rev/AV spam in tight corridors, which isn't fun. But I liked the outdoor portions.

[Demon of the Well]

Map 17 -- Twisted Realms - 100% Kills / 100% Secrets - FDA
Estranged returns to the Shores of Hell theme, here in a way that's far less coy than what was seen in "Dark Heart" earlier on. Congested and confined, this now unrecognizable bit of UAC facility combines stacked orthogonal construction with strangely warped and irrational tangles of passageways on the ground level, with bits of computer station, industrial/processing construction, and carved gothic stonework colliding and competing to be the forefront element in what seems to be a rapidly deteriorating reality. A very classic catch-as-catch can presentation, for sure (and a very convenient precedent for mappers who hate sticking to a disciplined theme), though one I've become steadily more fond of through the years.

Adding further uncertainty to just what precise stance this mapset takes on the pistol-start vs. continuous balance dichotomy, the gameplay here really only forms up into something that makes more sense than a grab-bag of monsters in piddly hallways if you play it from pistol-start, where severe underarmament coupled with being stalked by powerful monsters heavily flavors the early going. You've got little choice but to run deeper into the installation's shifting bowels in order to find something sturdier than your peashooter, and what you find is the rocket launcher, not exactly the most ideal tool given the surroundings, but it's what you've got and so you make due until you can pick up a shotgun from a former human sergeant's corpse. There's also a secret BFG which is easy to spot but a mite tricky to access (had to attempt it a handful of times myself), which can help you more smoothly swing the skirmish against the blue skeleton key's guardians but isn't truly necessary provided you hang on to at least a few rockets. It's an extremely brief level, and one where the pressure falls off a cliff as soon as you get a foothold; essentially all of the gameplay's real structure and flavor elides from the conditions of a pistol-start, and so I imagine it will barely even register on the radar of players using carryovers (m16 didn't use a death-exit, right?).

[Magnusblitz]

MAP11: Barren Keep
100% kills, 0/1 secret

Another episode ender, and much like MAP04, one I found to be pretty anti-climatic (seriously, a tiny white floor gate as a dimensional portal?). The large open area is probably supposed to be impressive, but it's too easy to just run through everything, and after realizing there wasn't much to do besides grab the RL and ammo, returned instead to the start to go through the other area to open the gate. I dunno, it just didn't really grab me as something I wanted to fight through (though I did end up killing everything somehow, thanks infighting I suppose). The fight at the end isn't bad (I left with about 12% health) but still anti-climatic.

[NuMetalManiak]

MAP17 Twisted Realms

If it seems like a breather it may be a false flag. The first two enemies are barons in this map with cramped spaces and a low monster count. I made a beeline for the rocket launcher here. Unfortunately, this one does not have much in the way of weapons besides that. You'd have to pry a shotgun and chaingun from zombies, and then there's that really egregious BFG secret. I guess it's fine as it fits but the timing is almost pitch perfect to reach and will take several tries. Due to a dearth in supplies as usual I let enemies smack each other, as even on continuous I've been running dry on reserves lately. The segment before the blue key stands out rather annoyingly, with a baron duo, an archvile, and then you have cacodemons coming at you from the side where you least expect it. Save the BFG for that folks. Never struck out to me at all, this one.

[baja blast rd.]

Demon of the Well said:

I feel the same way about a lot of speedmaps, certain types of concept map, and very small/casual maps in general. They don't take much time to complete individually, it's true, but because they are often fragmentary, unmemorable, or even outright unfulfilling, it nevertheless feels like time wasted to me, ironic considering that one of the main selling points of such maps for folks who enjoy them is that they are very conscientious about not wasting a player's time. For my part, though, once I start something I will generally make an effort to finish it--I've seen enough mapsets that have stuff I wouldn't want to miss hidden among otherwise unremarkable fare, and I generally value the experience gained as applicable to my future Dooming--even if I know before it's even halfway finished that it's something I will most likely never play through again.

I had a post drafted some days ago related to this. I'm beginning to feel that small maps are totally pointless for casual play when they don't have any interesting design choices and aren't really anything resembling challenging. There are a lot of maps even in many modern Cacoward winners that fit this description. I'd go as far as to say that gameplay itself should be secondary to design in small and casual maps, and the focus should be on creative aesthetics.

This speedmap of mine can illustrate what I mean, but the gameplay is actually interesting. (IMO :D.) Build time by the way is a month.

Spoiler

A few hours one day, and a bit of time reworking the fights another day. I'll probably remove a few cells in the final area, but I'll hold off on that for another month. ;)

Just imagine it being a bit bigger, a bit more detailed (maybe with some purple marble buildings and some other firebluey fireblu stuff), and with light casual gameplay instead. If someone else made it I'd feel glad about having played it, just because of the unique aesthetics.

But as I've gotten into speedrunning lately, I've been appreciating the generic maps with simple gameplay as long as they play in non-bullshitty ways (no hitscanner RNG nonsense). Some of these can be found in ASS!

[dobu gabu maru]

Demon of the Well said:

I feel the same way about a lot of speedmaps, certain types of concept map, and very small/casual maps in general. They don't take much time to complete individually, it's true, but because they are often fragmentary, unmemorable, or even outright unfulfilling, it nevertheless feels like time wasted to me, ironic considering that one of the main selling points of such maps for folks who enjoy them is that they are very conscientious about not wasting a player's time. For my part, though, once I start something I will generally make an effort to finish it--I've seen enough mapsets that have stuff I wouldn't want to miss hidden among otherwise unremarkable fare, and I generally value the experience gained as applicable to my future Dooming--even if I know before it's even halfway finished that it's something I will most likely never play through again.

Oh yeah, we definitely differ there, as I'm usually down for a quick 80-100 monster map no matter how bad it is. That said though, a collection of speedmaps generally sounds less appealing to me than a solo megawad release like this, and--like you--the more atmospheric/novel a map becomes the more I'm willing to enjoy it no matter the length. My favorite thing I've played this year remains Miasma, and a large part of that is because it was an hour long and let me really explore its angular halls and irradiated depths. Had that been a 10 minute speedmap I doubt I'd look back on it as fondly... crossing my fingers that some day rdwpa sees the light and makes a 1-2 hour long map :D

[Steve D]

rdwpa said:

This speedmap of mine can illustrate what I mean, but the gameplay is actually interesting. (IMO :D.) Build time by the way is a month.

Very interesting -- and intimidating! -- setups in this one. Nice design, too, but can you really call it a speedmap if it took a month to build? Or does that count extended build time on a core map originally built in a few hours?

[baja blast rd.]

dobu gabu maru said:

crossing my fingers that some day rdwpa sees the light and makes a 1-2 hour long map :D

Eden is probably approaching the lower end of that. :)

SteveD said:

Very interesting -- and intimidating! -- setups in this one. Nice design, too, but can you really call it a speedmap if it took a month to build? Or does that count extended build time on a core map originally built in a few hours?

Yeah that was a joke based on the build time thread. Total build time is probably 3-4 hours, including testing and dl-ing/assembling textures, some a few weeks ago, some recently.

[Steve D]

dobu gabu maru said:

Oh yeah, we definitely differ there, as I'm usually down for a quick 80-100 monster map no matter how bad it is. That said though, a collection of speedmaps generally sounds less appealing to me than a solo megawad release like this, and--like you--the more atmospheric/novel a map becomes the more I'm willing to enjoy it no matter the length. My favorite thing I've played this year remains Miasma, and a large part of that is because it was an hour long and let me really explore its angular halls and irradiated depths. Had that been a 10 minute speedmap I doubt I'd look back on it as fondly... crossing my fingers that some day rdwpa sees the light and makes a 1-2 hour long map :D

I'm sorta torn between you and DotW on this. Back in the day, I loved making and playing big maps with high monster counts. Nowadays I prefer to make smaller maps with lower monster counts but higher monster density, thus creating nastier and more fast-paced combat, but mainly, it's just easier to get them done. Big maps are bears in the polishing/testing phase and seem to drag on and on forever. OTOH, I can enjoy playing a nicely done largeish map, especially if some extra effort has been put into the architecture and the size is exploited for some grand-scale visuals. I also share your enthusiasm for Miasma, which I must find time to get back to. I foolishly undertook a UV playthrough and got stuck in a setpiece key battle where a Cyb and some Revvies descend on neon platforms. What an awesome cinematic! But aside from bulling my way through scores of deaths until I got lucky, there was no way I'd beat that battle, so I'm going to restart on HNTR.

But to get back to some on-topicness, I'm pushing for Alien Vendetta next month. After all these years, I really need to finally play this thing. ;)

[Steve D]

rdwpa said:

Yeah that was a joke based on the build time thread. Total build time is probably 3-4 hours, including testing and dl-ing/assembling textures, some a few weeks ago, some recently.

Ah, okay. ;D Very nice work in such a short timeframe.

You've inspired me to come up with smartass build times for my own longer-term projects. And as it happens, they won't be that far from reality. ;)

[mouldy]

MAP17 - "Twisted Realms”

Very shores of hell. Tightly organised and weird looking , I confess I have given up trying to work out what is going on with the story now, it seems like we are going back to hell again. I like how in this map I started off with rocket lauchner and nothing else, not sure if thats just the route that I took, but it made things interesting in those claustrophobic spaces. There was a secret that involved a timed switch run lift door type thing, which I couldn't do. Looks like a BFG was the prize, oh well. Cheeky exit chaingunnners made me laugh.

[Steve D]

Map17

This was a lot of fun on continuous. I generally dislike maps that force a player to use a certain weapon in environments designed to make said weapon dangerous to the player. To some it's an interesting challenge, to me it's a gimmicky PITA. And we've already established that rocket-trolling goes back to '96 at least, and Foodles has already rocket-trolled us a few times. Plus, if you go along with the concept, you'll end up with plenty of "Rockets down the corridor" action, with which we're already familiar. Indeed, we did that a few times in the last map!

So I used a lot of SSG in this one, some Chaingun, and of course a lot of rockets. I used the BFG on Archie, who caught me by surprise the first time and sent me to Sleepaway Camp. Oh well, another perfect run tragically cut short.

Foodles does a great job on the E2 theme and provides us with a highly interconnected layout, nice overlooks and great texturing. Very solid work along with nice, gloomy lighting. One of my favorite maps in the set so far.

I found all 3 secrets. The second one I found was the Zerk, but I had no idea what I grabbed because it's a black item in a dark closet. Foodles could have come up with some lighting here, but throughout this mapset he's shown a penchant for placing important items in shadows. That's a habit worth changing in the future.

And the MIDI, The Demons From Adrian's Pen, is IMO one of the very finest IWAD tracks, and perfect for this claustrophobic environment.

As DotW said, this map argues in favor of a pistol-start. So once again, I have to chide both Foodles and his playtesters for those rocket boxes at the dark Archie/Revvie fight. Somebody shoulda said something. But I can't really complain, since it worked out in my favor. ;)