The People's Doom

[Death Egg]

Website
Forum

Some of you may have heard of this project back from 2003. It's essentially an alternative to Freedoom, a similar goal of having a free IWAD, but having an original palette, graphics and story rather than being compatible with most original Doom mods like Freedoom. It had a very brief period of interest, but that died off and it's been lying dormant for over a decade.

However, the maintainer, Boingo the Clown, as well as I, are both interested in seeing a rebirth. We've acquired and created some original graphics, but we need quite a bit more to really jumpstart development.

I've come here specifically because I know Freedoom has a plethora of rejected graphics from it's long development. We would like, if possible, to use these. Should it be alright, could anyone point it's to the best resources that didn't make it in for whatever reasons?

Thanks in advance.

[Voros]

Goals of This Project


We want to create a fully functioning IWAD for DooM and the DooM source ports.
.
This IWAD, once finished, is to be professional quality. In other words, we want it to be good enough that one would seriously consider buying it, if it was available in a store.
.
All resources within T.P.D. are to be original. Nothing within the new IWAD should be taken from another source, such as the original DooM IWAD, or derived from such. Furthermore, T.P.D. is intended to have its own look and feel. It is not just intended to be a DooM look alike.
.
In order to ensure compatibility with maps within all existing PWADs, provided these maps are used with the appropriate source port if necessary, all textures from the original DooM IWAD will have an equivalent texture, albeit with a different appearance, in T.P.D..
.
To further allow compatibility, all equivalent textures will have a similar theme to those they replace. I.e. Textures meant to take the place of tech theme textures in the original DooM will also have a tech theme. Original textures specific to T.P.D. will be given their own unique texture names.
.
Once completed, the IWAD should have its own complete story. The levels should be complete, and the game should be able to stand on its own. Again, this is consistent with the creation of a quality product.
.
Eventually, we would like create specific versions of T.P.D. for the different DooM source ports, such as DooM Legacy, and ZDooM, in order to take advantage of the port specific features.

Also ...


An optional hack patch (DEH) will be created for the IWAD. This patch will make appropriate text changes, and allow for improved animation and make changes in some monsters’ behaviour. Any additional graphics required to go along with the patch will be included within the IWAD. NOTE: The hack patch will not be required to run the game with the IWAD.
.
With the exception of the patch noted above, no non-standard data will be created for the IWAD, such as MD2s or MP3s, until the IWAD is complete, since they are not necessary for the IWAD to function.
.
In order to avoid comprising between the two types of play, there will be no levels that combine both single / coop play and deathmatch play. Instead, the first three episodes of T.P.D. will be reserved for single / coop play, and the fourth episode will be reserved for deathmatch.

Point 1- its already been done.
Point 2- Freedoom is mostly high quality, and is sold on iOS and Android phones successfully.
Point 3- OK, that sounds interesting.
Point 4- we have Freedoom for that.
Point 5- OK, so its a completely new IWAD, not meant for Doom PWADs, but as a Doom clone?
Point 6- well that is pretty obvious.
Point 7- Ooh! That would be cool. But that means more work and time.
Point 8- OK.
Point 9- thank goodness
Point 10- im fine with that.

Overall: sounds interesting. A Freefreedoom... An alternative to an alternative. But it looks promising.

[finnw]

I see an obviously-inaccurate claim in the first paragraph on the website, so I'm not too optimistic...

the only way to get hold of any of the IWADs is to own a copy of the original DooM, DooM II, or Final DooM, and that can be a problem, since finding a copy of DooM is becoming harder and harder these days.

Edit Realised this was probably written before Steam or GoG existed. Still could use an update though

[Death Egg]

Yes, some of the info is a bit outdated, which can be expected from a project from 2003. :p We'd rather not use most assets directly from Freedoom as that would kind of be pointless, a we'd just end up with just another Freedoom, although if it's alright we might rip the GENMIDI and DMXGEN files. (Or whatever the other sound file is I don't remember offhand)

[Voros]

You should ask the maintainers themselves. Fraggle and chungy, and Jon.

And is this Boingo the Clown still active?

Btw, the forum link is gone.

[Death Egg]

I figured I would make a public post as it would help gain more awareness and get more people who are knowledgeable in Freedooms history to show off the best unused stuff, or even submit their own stuff, as I haven't been caught up with all the slew of new stuff. I know raymoohawk had a bunch of monsters that were considered but ultimately didn't go with. (Though these might be in too unfinished of a state to use)

Boingo is still active, just not on Doomworld. He has been checking in on this topic though.


It looks like the site hosting the forum is just down for now.

[Cire]

I certainly remember this Project. I thought it had potential back then, though as I remember, it was 'Freeware' licensed.

Quote for readme:
"COPYRIGHTS AND PERMISSIONS:

The People's DooM (T.P.D.) is freeware, which means that you may freely distribute it, provided you not accept any money for it (If we're not getting any money for it, why should you?).

All contents of The People's DooM IWAD are copyright of the creators of T.P.D., and may not be used outside of the IWAD without the expressed permision of the original author(s). No
exceptions."

Are you planning on changing to a more liberal license? Otherwise, wouldn't it cause problems if using Freedoom assets, or am I missing something here?

[Voros]

Is that license? Then i doubt assets from Freedoom can be used for this "delayed" projected, since Freedoom uses a licence that allows making profit.

Plus, we have HacX, a freeware IWAD! And Chex Quest 3! And The Adventures of Square!

[Cire]

That license is included in the download.
I'm not saying that a freeware license won't work, I'm just saying that you should be careful about including assets like the ones from Freedoom if you're going to keep the license since I don't Think that will work.

[MrFlibble]

Death Egg said:

I've come here specifically because I know Freedoom has a plethora of rejected graphics from it's long development. We would like, if possible, to use these. Should it be alright, could anyone point it's to the best resources that didn't make it in for whatever reasons?

Someone please correct me if I'm wrong, but the Freedoom license appears to state that you do not need any specific permission to use the assets, either in their original or modified form:

Copyright (c) 2001-2015
Contributors to the Freedoom project. All rights reserved.

Redistribution and use in source and binary forms, with or without
modification, are permitted provided that the following conditions are
met:

* Redistributions of source code must retain the above copyright
notice, this list of conditions and the following disclaimer.
* Redistributions in binary form must reproduce the above copyright
notice, this list of conditions and the following disclaimer in the
documentation and/or other materials provided with the distribution.
* Neither the name of the freedoom project nor the names of its
contributors may be used to endorse or promote products derived from
this software without specific prior written permission. [emphasis added]

You may know that due to recent resurgence in active development a considerable number of good or decent quality assets from Freedoom (mostly graphics) were phased out in favour of higher-quality submissions. This includes weapons, pickup items, as well as some monsters and a variety of textures.

Until recently, replaced stuff would be moved to the attic, but for whichever reason starting with the release of v0.10 this practice seems to have ceased. So if you need to get older stuff you'll need to obtain the compiled release instead.

Also, not long ago Sodaholic started a search for old assets that did not end up in Freedoom but could be used. There's some interesting stuff in that thread. This topic and this one also may contain some links that could be of potential interest to you.

[Jon]

Hi,

Death Egg said:

I've come here specifically because I know Freedoom has a plethora of rejected graphics from it's long development. We would like, if possible, to use these. Should it be alright, could anyone point it's to the best resources that didn't make it in for whatever reasons?

Gosh, it's been a long time since I saw this project, and a long time since I heard of Boingo. He should join DWF! Where else did the Newdoom exiles go?

Anyway to answer your question, just read the license file - https://github.com/freedoom/freedoom/blob/master/COPYING

It's quite simple, but basically yes you can use freedoom assets, just make sure you distribute that COPYING file with your project and make it clear which assets it covers. There's nothing to stop you restricting distribution of the combined work further e.g. non-commercial as it is now, but I'd encourage you to go for a more liberal license, simply because it makes life easier for everyone, and IMHO would be better for your project in the long run.

[Boingo]

Jon said:

Gosh, it's been a long time since I saw this project, and a long time since I heard of Boingo. He should join DWF! Where else did the Newdoom exiles go?

He's been on DWF since 2000. He just doesn't post here much.

[Cire]

Speaking of alternative Freedooms, there's also DECK, a public domain (CC0) Project, that hasn't seen progress in a while afaik: http://vectorpoem.com/deck/
No idea if it's still being worked on.
Maybe you guys can help each other out or something?

[Voros]

Cire said:

Speaking of alternative Freedooms, there's also DECK, a public domain (CC0) Project, that hasn't seen progress in a while afaik: http://vectorpoem.com/deck/
No idea if it's still being worked on.
Maybe you guys can help each other out or something?

Interesting.

From what I can tell, its some Doom editor that comes with various assets for the user to compile in an all new IWAD.

That's pretty big. So its like the Gamemaker of Doom?

[Cire]

Yeah, I Think the end goal would be something along those lines.

[raymoohawk]

Cire said:

Speaking of alternative Freedooms, there's also DECK, a public domain (CC0) Project, that hasn't seen progress in a while afaik: http://vectorpoem.com/deck/
No idea if it's still being worked on.
Maybe you guys can help each other out or something?

i spoke with jpl about it last year, he said that he would reactivate it as a crowd funded project once he found an artist

[Voros]

raymoohawk said:

i spoke with jpl about it last year, he said that he would reactivate it as a crowd funded project once he found an artist

Like you?

[raymoohawk]

nah, he was nice and said he would consider it when i offered, but i think he has a proffesional in mind, or at least someone who is more skillful. i also suspect it will have a very different style from doom, since it is meant for general game development

[MrFlibble]

I think it's also worth mentioning that not long ago MarlboroMike2100 gave permission to use his original graphics (created for Doom) in the libre Wolfenstein 3-D engine project. The graphics are reproduced here starting with this post. There's human enemies, player weapons, various props and some textures.

Since the Wolf3D engine project hasn't properly taken off yet, perhaps you could negotiate the use of these resources in the T.P.D.?

[Gentlepoke]

Ahh I remember The People's Doom years ago... it wasn't a bad idea and it'd be interesting if it continued however I wonder if it'd simply be worth just focusing the attention on FreeDoom instead?

[Da Werecat]

Unless it's going to go in a different direction. Less attention to compatibility already gives the creators more freedom to do what they want.

[Da Werecat]

By the way, is the new palette compatible with player palette swaps, default automap colors, and so on? I need a good template for my own palette, preferably made by someone else (so I could partially blame them if something breaks).

[Voros]

I tried it out and... something clicked in my head.

[Death Egg]

Da Werecat said:

By the way, is the new palette compatible with player palette swaps, default automap colors, and so on? I need a good template for my own palette, preferably made by someone else (so I could partially blame them if something breaks).

I am unsure at the moment. I'll have to check when I get the first chance, but I believe that this is the case.

[Jon]

Boingo said:

He's been on DWF since 2000. He just doesn't post here much.

Which is kind of a shame. Where did you and the other (good) guys go when newdoom imploded?

[Death Egg]

Da Werecat said:

By the way, is the new palette compatible with player palette swaps, default automap colors, and so on? I need a good template for my own palette, preferably made by someone else (so I could partially blame them if something breaks).

I can confirm that the palette was not originally made with these things in mind, and is currently being adjusted accordingly. Is there documentation somewhere listing everything that would be best to keep in mind when creating a palette from scratch?

[Da Werecat]

https://www.doomworld.com/vb/doom-editing/68157-important-palette-indexes/

Not sure if that's all, but that's all I've been told at the time. Obviously excludes source ports, because I didn't ask.

[Death Egg]

Thanks for that post, Da Werecat. It will come in handy.

We have another issue at hand now. The I WAD as it stands refuses to launch in Chocolate Doom even when the music files from Freedoom are added in. Does anyone have any idea why?

[Boingo]

I spent some time working on the palette today.

I have been rearranging the order of the colours to more closely match the order used in the DooM palette.

The colours are all the same ones from the original TPD palette, but now the greys are placed from index 80 to 111 as the greys are in the DooM palette, green is now from index 112 to 127 like the DooM greens, et cetera. Graphics using the DooM palette should look a lot less screwed up when displayed in the revised palette for the most part. The revised palette is not a perfect match for the DooM palette, however, so there will still be some wackiness (like half the pink range being purple now), but it should be an improvement.

Jon said:

Which is kind of a shame. Where did you and the other (good) guys go when newdoom imploded?

I have generally been a fixture on the Chex Quest Fan Forums, where I have been slowly working on my main projects, DeiMWolf, and The Ultimate Chex Quest, for an absurdly long time.

[MrFlibble]

Boingo said:

Graphics using the DooM palette should look a lot less screwed up when displayed in the revised palette for the most part. The revised palette is not a perfect match for the DooM palette, however, so there will still be some wackiness (like half the pink range being purple now), but it should be an improvement.

Why was it decided to create a new palette in the first place? I've heard somewhere some criticisms of TPD exactly because of this feature.

I mean, a different palette is probably a good idea actually, but it seems pretty challenging to create while keeping the goal of PWAD compatibility.