The DWmegawad Club plays: Alien Vendetta

[dobu gabu maru]

Szymanski said:

I think CC plays well as a quick blast, maybe a polished VOE would have been a better fit for this episode.

You take that back—CC is one of the best maps of the set. You do some really phenomenal work Szymanski.

MAP26: Hooray, it’s The Living End Post-Mortem Dark Dome! Whereas the last map seemed to drag on and on, this one was alright! I’ve always been a fan of these double tiered maps, and this one is surprisingly more generous than its kin, the sea down below being purged of any kind of toxicity. There’s a lot of ammo but cell gets surprisingly tight if you don’t manage it well, and though the opening of trap doors gets pretty obnoxious, it helps to keep the tension high especially at the start. It’s a shame you spend so much of the map down in the water cleaning up monsters, but the open air here lets you play however you want, and there’s plenty of opportunities for AV/rev snipers to punish you when you get too careless.

The blue key encounter was kinda cute. Back then it must’ve been a pretty stressful trap since there’s no spots to camp once you start it, but nowadays the tactic is, ahem, dead simple—circle strafe to promote infighting, BFG any enemies that get in your way. The following cyber battle past the blue key door was way more difficult in my opinion, and was definitely the spot where I died the most (or restarted the most, since I would reload if I stumbled backwards into the tele). I think the YK switch could’ve been conveyed better but for the most part this map executes on what it sets out to do quite well overall. Part of me would like to praise the map for its solid visuals, but the texture choice is quite unabashedly ripped from its inspiration, so no bonus points there.

[Demon of the Well]

^^I'll change my vote to BrutalWAD if and only if all 12 of you agitating for it promise to stick around and post about it in detail for the duration, rather than leaving the task (and it will be a task) up to the rest of us. ;)

Map 18 -- Lake Poison - 99% Kills / 100% Secrets
Could not for the unlife of me locate that last monster, and it didn't seem to be a missing imp from the sewer-cloister or a little window-camper from the final area, either. Weird.

Discounting the second secret map as a diversion and "Nukefall" as something of an off-type oddity, this is the first map by Anders J. that we've seen in a while, no? Having contributed the largest number of maps to AV, his oeuvre is the one we get to see the most facets of, but I think it's fair to say that his AV mapping (and by extension, AV in general) is most remembered for the larger, longer, more 'epic' affairs, and "Lake Poison" is where this begins. This, for me, is inevitably one of the first maps I think of when I think of AV (though I'm not sure I'd actually peg it as 'Top 5' material!), and in aesthetic style and pace of action it really is something like a gateway to what follows it in the back half of E3. I would characterize this as being something akin to Vorpal's "Suicidal Tendencies" from earlier, in that while it fields a quite hefty monstercount it's for the most part a big softie, outside of a dangerous snare or two it's something that's more about crass fun-for-the-sake-of-it than a stern challenge.

The overall setting, as oft noted, is somewhat Plutonian in cast, depicting what appears to be an old-fashioned toxin monitoring/treatment plant which has been occupied and repurposed by the demons towards darker ends. The network of sampling stations at the north end has been refashioned as a cloister of shrines to unknown stygian powers, and boundaries between dimensions have become paper-thin as a result. Meanwhile, the massive settling pool to the west has become a bathing and spawning ground for a cadre of high-ranking aberrations, moistening their loathsome tissues in liquid verdigris as they plot the downfall of this reality. Minute sector detailing in the introductory segment of the map eventually gives way wholesale to a simpler geometry of broad, tall planes and long vistas, again in an identifiably HR-esque sort of vein, though with a much moodier, gloomier atmospheric bent, largely driven by lighting choices, than the older WAD ever fielded. Apart from a texture misalignment or two (one of which, strangely, is actually rather huge) it is cleanliness incarnate, and while the final topside E1M7 homage arguably looks a bit bare, on the whole it's a very memorable presentation, something I would attribute to the way the presentation steadily builds towards grander and grander scales as the level progresses.

The action is most defined by rapid low-stress slaughter of droves of enemies, with the three highlight areas being the sewer-cloister to the north, the huge settling cistern to the west, and the final E1M7 stretch, all previously mentioned. Each of these takes a different tack on providing a high bodycount without demanding terribly disciplined execution, something which I suppose will appeal to some more than others. The big imp flood in the sewer cloister is tasty rocket-fodder fare with a bit of edge eliding from the need to occasionally navigate around or simply carve through the masses in order to refresh one's radsuit; unfortunately, blocking lines at the mouths of some (not all) of the individual shrines prevent you from stirring up true chaos, alas. The big cistern fight, by contrast, is a classic ZoI setup that levies very little real pressure provided you're not too timid to make an initial foray into the area, and so should appeal to many different skill levels and temperaments, being equally amenable to a very conservative long-range shelling campaign or to a daffy BFG blitz through the entrenched enemy ranks. We cap off by hurling rockets into the midst of zombified plant attendants milling about the elevated hallway of the final "Computer Station" allusion for big chunky clusterkills (it's also fun to ride up and tear through them with the plasma gun, which otherwise sees very little use in this map)--my only complaint here is that Andy made the lips of the windows a mite too tall, and so you can't send gibs flying out of them like you can in the original map. Apart from the sandboxy microcosm of the big cistern, it's all very reptilian-brain sort of fare, but some of that is quite gratifying to me now and again, I suppose in the same way that some other players periodically enjoy tiny mid-90s difficulty single maps. It's a lot of sturm und drang in an appealing setting with low overall pressure (ironically most of the only real danger occurs from chaingunner closets and other small traps in the interstitial parts of the map which nobody ever remembers), and an interesting marriage of the HR/ZoI and adventure map styles, which normally make for very strange bedfellows.

[Capellan]

Map27
This doesn’t feel like a cohesive level so much as a series of set piece idea that have been strung together in a wiggly line. That’s particularly evident in the early stages of the map, with the tedious teleporter antics of the demons and revs being followed by the utterly pointless corridor of cacos prior to baron-a-palooza 9000. It’s a bit sad when the most engaging part of the first half of the map is circle-strafing a clump of goat boys.

Next we have the big blue cave of BFGing archviles one at a time, and the two least secret secrets ever seen in mapping. The yellow key is in a spur off this, protected by a nigh helpless spiderdemon and some other riff raff.

Frankly absolutely everything in the map to this point feels like unnecessary busy work. Now we’ve finally reached the main hub the map it does get a bit more cohesive for a while, with areas feeling more integrated, but that really only lasts until you grab the red key, at which point the divisions between different areas become quite noticeable due to the monsters’ inability to navigate the many sets of steps. Then it’s back to the ‘discrete units’ feel of earlier, which is most egregious and tiresome in the areas after the red door. Waiting around a corner while monsters infight is not really a fun way to play Doom, IMO, but it’s by far the path of least resistance here. Yawn.

[Demon of the Well]

Map 19 -- Alien Resurrection - 106% Kills / 100% Secrets (10 whole bullets GEE WHIZ)
You don't hear much about this one, seems like, perhaps because it's sandwiched in between two of the set's most well-known maps. I like it, though, definitely the stronger of the two maps credited to Madani el Hariri. Like a handful of the levels preceding it, this one comes off as something built in the style of an era earlier than the one from which AV itself comes, with a generally linear progression through a handful of disparate environments that is arranged less as an adventure trail or a locational 'set' and more criss-crossing and zig-zagging back and forth through and around a network of hub areas, several of which are used and reused over the duration via physical changes and fresh infusions of monsters.

While the feeling of a loose collection of concepts ala map 15 from earlier is still present in some capacity, on the whole I'd say "Alien Resurrection" is significantly more of a coherent experience, not only because many of its areas are more fleshed out in terms of play content, but also because it's more aesthetically unified than its predecessor, mostly sticking with a low-tech hoary brick n' mortar theme to depict something like an alchemikult or funerary shrine positioned at the confluence of a three-way flow of mud/water, toxin from Lake Poison just prior, and molten lava from a yet unseen fiery cyst nearby. Not nearly as heavy on the mood lighting as many of the surrounding maps (unfortunately), the presentation is nevertheless kept consistently engaging through lots of novel architectural flair both purely cosmetic (all sorts of interesting metal trim and the like, from the years before this became a community cliche) and more substantive, ala the starting caged junction, the earthen dolmen with its library offshoots built into the mountainside, or the striking gallows-gibbet causeway with bloodbasin carved into its expanse. Lots of little moving parts--dropping/building stairs, springloaded shielding, the like--found here and there also add a sense of dynamism and life to what is at heart a simple layout. Between the lovingly worked beige-tone look and the (mostly) bloody action, I find myself reminded of the work of the Moller brothers, or some other contemporary of theirs.

The bodycount/monster density here backs off a fair bit from what was seen in the previous map, even dipping below what was seen in Vorpal's maps, and so in that sense this is liable to come off as a bit of a breather map, though it's suitably violent in its own right. Rather than using large blocks or waves of monsters attacking en mass between periods of relative calm, played at speed the level offers a mostly uninterrupted stream of mid-grade action driven by lots of teleportation and closeted goons in addition to the initial placements to keep the player busy as s/he wends back and forth through its locales. The ammo/supply balance errs a bit on the casual side, not supplying any real surplus of armor or healing but feeding the player a hearty diet of all ammo types, leaving the issue of weapon selection for any given encounter largely up to player discretion (though of course cells and rockets become prime near the end). In line with the map's name, the idea of having arch-viles teleport into the hubs in order to revive fallen monsters is a recurring concept, and there are some other experiments in place as well, most notably the 'spiders under glass' segment off of the RK hub. The variety is appreciated, I'm sure, though the execution is not always spot-on--for instance, the aforesaid setpiece tends to look like it's broken/malfunctioning halfway through, since all of the spiders wake up at once but are not all released simultaneously, which is practically harmless but also visually rather tacky. On that note, while I'm generally pleased with the gameplay here I feel I can't give it top marks because it's clearly marred by restraints in a handful of places that greatly undercut its potential intensity, most notably the blocking lines in the U-hall in the dolmen, which do not play well at all with the running 'resurrection' concept--more minutely timed teleportation bombs probably would've accomplished a similar pace without the need for hard navigational constraints on the monsters, and were this map made today I reckon that's probably how it would be done.

Nevertheless, I reckon this a more than solid map, worthy of the company it keeps.

[Steve D]

+++ THT:Threnody and No Sleep For The Dead because Ultimate Doom rocks!

I will definitely agitate for a vintage episode in November, but after that, I'll probably join DotW in asking for Hellbound, unless there's a big surge for Mutiny plus another episode, which also interests me.

[Capellan]

SteveD said:

I will definitely agitate for a vintage episode in November

Oh sure, spoil some more of my fond memories :)

[Steve D]

Capellan said:

Oh sure, spoil some more of my fond memories :)

SteveD Enterprises:Specialists in Spoiled Memories and Shattered Dreams since 1996! ;)

Some suggestions for the future:
The Darkening 1 & 2
Classic Episode
CH_Retro Episode
Memento Mori 2

You'll have some things to answer for on that list. ;D

[Capellan]

SteveD said:

You'll have some things to answer for on that list. ;D

In terms of my own work, the only one that worries me there is my Darkening E1 map. It's not like you suggested Demonfear. That'd really make me cringe :)

I don't think I've ever played Classic Episode or CH_Retro.

Edit to add:

+++ Slaughter Until Death / The Evil Unleashed / Obituary

Expect me to keep voting for this trio until it wins, so probably forever :)

[Demon of the Well]

The half-eaten BLT I have sitting on a plate beside me could probably complete the Classic Episode and most of CH_Retro with little trouble if I were to set it in front of the keyboard, and so you could say they share a certain kinship with Demonfear in that regard.

If it comes down to Threnody plus something else (which it looks like it's going to), I would personally prefer No Sleep For the Dead to NRFTL for the 'something else', for what that's worth.

[Steve D]

Capellan said:

It's not like you suggested Demonfear. That'd really make me cringe :)

Hmmmmmmmm . . . . . ;)

Obituary . . . is that the one with Hell Knights in 64-wide hallways, Chaingunners shooting through fake walls, and some kind of rocket zombie?

[Steve D]

Demon of the Well said:

The half-eaten BLT I have sitting on a plate beside me could probably complete the Classic Episode and most of CH_Retro with little trouble if I were to set it in front of the keyboard, and so you could say they share a certain kinship with Demonfear in that regard.

LOL! They aren't that easy, and besides, it's not all about hard, as BTSX E1 has so amply demonstrated. ;)

[NuMetalManiak]

Erhm, I'm gonna sit this next month out.

MAP27 Stench of Evil

More like MAP25 in length, except with less slaughter and more focused gameplay, yet still remains linear as all hell. As before, the weapons are all given. Setpieces, with some secret mancubi, start things off. The vine bridge leads to the red room with warping demons, and the E4M1 tribute is pretty tacky. What follows is a hallway where cacodemons are dumb enough to go under the moving walls and get themselves crushed. I heard that you don't have to kill these particular enemies, as a crusher WAYYY later on will trigger and kill them anyways.

What follows is a castle scenario, except we leave it, although symmetric monster placement makes it easy on the inside. The outside is a large field but it's got lots of barons, and that ice maze with arch-viles is also quite memorable, if a bit Hunted-like. Lots of secrets around here too. The mini castle with spectres, imps, and a spiderdemon gives the yellow key and is easy.

Another castle already? The moats' monsters are of concern but are easily dispatched with the BFG. The fights inside aren't too much to ask, but the secrets sure are. The wooden halls aren't much, the marble room with the glowing moat is fucking annoying though, with the pain elementals and the potentially hard jump to the other side. I get the blue key first from there. I like how the teleporter closets are made, they ensure that the imps that come in come in instead of taking forever to do so. The whole escapade past the blue door leading to the red key is alright, but a bit unmemorable for me.

The room past the marble room leads to one memorable area, full of crazy stuff. The bloodwall of chaingunners, plus a bright red area with lots to BFG. The final stretch of this map puts us in more wood, a bit E4-themed in a way. You pretty much have to go to the lava to get to one switch. The walkways themselves get polluted with hell knights. I rushed this section and wound up using the soul spheres in the exit room to help while I kill the remaining knights. Quite a long one this is, and can be just as tough as the others despite the lesser slaughter moments.

[Demon of the Well]

There are no hell knights in 64-wide hallways in Obituary, Steve. There are super-imps in 64-wide hallways, mind you, but that's another matter. ;) And yeah, rocket dudes. Always good for a laugh.

Map 20 -- Misri Halek - 100% Kills / 100% Secrets
Very likely Alien Vendetta's most famous map, and thus one of the most beloved PWAD maps in the community's history, the crown jewel of Kim Malde's legacy is a masterstroke in locational design, though given the choice of theme I reckon it's fair to say it gets to cheat at least a little bit on that metric (expansive networks of tight, dimly-lit sandstone hallways are not something that would be so readily embraced outside of this specific theme, I'd wager). As I've said in the past, I've always been extremely fond of the stylized Egyptian/Desert Tomb theme one occasionally finds in Doom maps; "Misri Halek" is by no means the first of its kind in that regard, but it remains a longstanding benchmark and source of inspiration for others working with the theme (the number of allusions to this one map spread out through Eternal's Epic II is rather telling, I think), and so I suppose you can imagine how I felt seeing it for the first time when AV was a much newer WAD.

As far as the moment-to-moment action goes, "Misri Halek" is well in line with everything else we've seen from Kim so far, essentially boiling down to an unusually violent corridor-shooter with some light conceptual fiddling to maintain some variety over the course of what is a decidedly longform adventure, i.e. the berserk-driven opening which lasts until you hit subterranea proper, or the timeout from the carefully measured ammo dole that characterizes most of the map for the long climb up the ashen mountain to the yellow skull's obelisk, where the plasma rifle is patently the weapon of choice, BFG be damned. Rather sharp boobytraps punctuate various legs which unfold in the pyramid proper as well, and while some of these have extremely high damage potential (*cough cough CHAINGUNNERS*) most are compensated by nearby stockpiles of health kits, to say nothing of the surfeit of soulspheres in first fiery cataract segment.

In comparison to Kim's other maps, the monstercount here is significantly higher (though this is more a function of length than of density in this case), and the composition skews noticeably more towards mid-tier foes (hell nobles, revenants, etc.), though proportionally speaking imps and zombies are still grist for the mill here. Nonetheless, given this shift, it is inevitable that the pacing of the map (even with foreknowledge) is thus slower than in "Toxic Touch" or the like, and I suppose this will make or break it for some appetites. For my part, I would certainly agree that certain segments don't hold up very well to scrutiny. The whole YK leg is probably the chief offender here, plasma rifle safari or no. Some of the traps which quickly snap into nasty pincer scenarios along the gradually ascending path are quite eventful as is in what otherwise might've been a nice pensive interlude in the middle of the map's long haul, and so it's difficult to see why the long 1-by-1-by-1 files of miscreants in between these were adopted, since they levy essentially zero threat while spoiling the serenity via the plasma gun's abrasive belching. This is immediately followed by a really pronounced SSG grind in a really tiny knot of hallways at the mountain's summit (in the old version of AV that lone 'tron was a mastermind instead, incidentally); I half suspect this latter bit, where ammo suddenly runs disturbingly thin, is intended to be a thematic callback to mapstart, but whatever the case it's difficult to argue that it's not overstated given that there's still quite a lot of map left afterwards, perhaps a function of feeling pressured to artificially meet a traditional notion of a map 20 difficulty peg.

All of that being said, though, for the most part I feel that what's on offer here works well in the context of the map's overall thrust, which is clearly to present a detailed and immersive setting with a filling portion of bloodshed rather than a twitchy 5-minute shootout; for something hewn so persistently out of corridors, the persistent commitment to using height variation and finding new ways of situating a widely varying monster-salad in the context of mostly smallscale venues is admirable. As was the case with map 11, though, all of this talk about the minutiae of the combat doesn't really touch on why I enjoy the map, that being simply because it's so successfully immersive, a function of lovingly crafted aesthetic (the lighting!!!) combining with extremely clever 2.5D design, believably simulating not just pyramid corridors but also a fiery confluence deep below it, and the butt end of the mountain into which it is apparently built--the sense of place here, boys and girls, is absolutely timeless. The genius here, I think, lies precisely in that Kim wanted to adhere to a realistically defined 3D space, but wisely saw no point in marrying himself to a rigidly realistic theme, and so instead of 'just' a pyramid we get a demonic lava-pyramid perched on the side of a volcano. The commitment to staying within certain physical boundaries also makes the map's intricately interlocking flow the more admirable--needs must, I suppose? And it does flow, incidentally, or at least it can. I suppose I know the map well enough that I can't pretend to be looking at it with a fresh pair of eyes at this point, but there is a more or less intuitive 'right' path to take through it which eliminates nigh on 99% of the backtracking many players complained of (something which wouldn't be possible in a layout not as meticulously planned as this one is), and even if you don't follow that path you're never far away from the way forward, with each initial dead-end giving you some little thing to do or to collect, or providing a hint of a later area.

Do I feel this level stands the test of time? Yes, very much so, precisely because it's not something that hinges on satin-smooth combat conduction (and in this area of consideration there is certainly some fumbling going on here), but rather on that ephemeral sense of adventure which idtech1, as an engine ostensibly for a fast, distilled shooty-shooty experience, has always been strangely suited to (chalk it up to functionally infinite draw distance, I guess?).

[Capellan]

SteveD said:

Obituary . . . is that the one with Hell Knights in 64-wide hallways, Chaingunners shooting through fake walls, and some kind of rocket zombie?

It definitely has the rocket zombies. It probably has the other things too, because the Mollers hate you :)

I'm mostly voting for them because they're the oldest Doomworld "Top 100 WADs" episodes we haven't played yet, and they were always well beyond my 1994 skills, so I never really played them.

[baja blast rd.]

One of these days we should vote for All Hell is Breaking Loose. It's a 5-map set so it will pair nicely with a 20-25 map megawad.

It has all sorts of cool monsters.

[Spectre01]

Map 27: Stench of Evil

Before I do my write-up for this one, I just want to give a shout out to stru, his excellent review of the map, and the interesting comment section that followed.

On to the map. This is another long one, up there with Misri Halek and Demonic Hordes with taking me over an hour to clear. I ended up missing one secret and unable to unlock the two Cybers in the bloodfall area with rows of Chaingunners. Otherwise the intimidating 13 secrets aren't too difficult to find.

Stench of Evil consists of a linear journey through various, often distinct, looking environments and fighting large hordes of enemies. The most infamous of which must be the Baron spam before the blue caves. Amusingly enough, I died the most at that part due to some bad Chaingunner encounters prior and starting the fight with 2% health and no armour. Speaking of which, the two symmetrical green armours near the start are really stupid and force you to end up wasting one if you took a scratch in the Fatso trap below. Anyway, the "difficulty" of the Baron fight was mostly port related with plenty of rocket suicides on those small tree things that have a hitbox much larger than the sprite. At least you're given two stacked crates that let you spam rockets with impunity.

The bluerock and icy floor textured cave area stands as the most visually distinct and original section. Huge fan of the way it looks, reminding me of the Crystal Caves in Dark Souls. I fail to see the point of the Spectre spam in the water below the Mastermind, but "allow BFG aiming" finds a way. Once past the yellow barricade comes a scene strongly resembling the outdoor area of map07, but with a Cyber up top and a bunch of fat guy having a swim.

There are a few nasty Archviles and other close range traps in the castle but also significant amounts of monster blocking, which makes infighting simulators quite easy. Overall it's a step down in difficulty compared to Dark Dome and probably Demonic Hordes. It's also the last of the 1k monster maps in the set. I actually like large maps where you can't get lost so the linear aspect didn't bother me here. Enjoyed the map.

[Demon of the Well]

Map 21 -- One Flew Over the Caco's Nest - 100% Kills / 100% Secrets
And now for something completely different, Pablo Dictter's "OFOTCN", hands down the lamest map in Alien Vendetta, new version or old. Evidently consciously designed to be an episode starter, this is an underachieving little scrap of a thing, blatantly and callously linear, flat as a board, and fielding ~65 monsters, the majority of which are encountered one at a time in a layout resembling a cartoon depiction of crusty old pipework plumbing. Changes in wallpaper aside, literally every single map Dictter made prior to Hatomo Battles the Yomi Demons (which was a collab with someone else, IIRC) was built in exactly this same way (even the little side path with a red key, I fucking swear it!), and I distinctly recall that the very first time I played it I was positive it must've been lifted/donated from one of his earlier projects (it wasn't). Hearing that he was primarily a Wolf3D mapper in those days makes a hell of a lot of sense now, I guess.....

Done in an eclectic Inferno-style 'bleeding castle' visual theme, all of the creative energy involved in this map's birth was evidently focused on installing decals and borders and carve-ins in the walls, ceilings and floors, and so there is a considerable variety of that type of detailing on offer here if that's your thing, though everything being set to an unswervingly chibi-fied physical scale limits the possibilities even in this regard. There is literally no height variation, and literally 100% of engagement with other actors is frontal, usually single-file. And how could it be any other way? The layout affords very few possibilities for anything resembling actual encounter design. There is a recurring discourse in the community, these days more commonly revolving around mid/late 00's ZDoom stuff (particularly the works of one Tormentor667), about a style of map construction that attempts to substitute piles and piles of insets and trim and the like for real shape or flow or spatial robustness in a layout; maps like this are an extreme example of what is being criticized in said discourse, something like one of those montages of hideous car accidents formerly shown in driver's ed courses in order to scare people straight.

The map's approach to thing balance is likely of some historical interest here (map 21....early berserk pack....very little useful healing outside of secrets, extremely tight ammo balance.....you get me?), but in practice it is a completely null and joyless affair of wearily backpedaling, hypochondriacal pugilism whose balance concept is for most players likely undercut by the lack of a death exit on map 20 (not that this is surprising or a particular fault of the team, as death exits were not really much of a 'thing' back then). The most telling thing, I think, is that in trying to imagine it with different thing placement, none of the possible alternatives seem like they'd be any better, just bad in a different way. More guns-n-ammo? Trivial. More healing? Trivial. Lighter monster composition? Trivial, even more pointless. Heavier monster composition? Even more joyless to max. Heavier monster composition, more conventional arms balance? Trivial, sloggy. There's no fixing it without making sweeping structural changes or additions--it is simply a fundamentally weak design. Enough said.

This belonged on the cutting room floor more than Valley of Echoes ever did.

[Vorpal]

Demon of the Well said:

This belonged on the cutting room floor more than Valley of Echoes ever did.

Even though I have obvious bias towards VoE, I must ultimately agree with Johnsen's reasoning that e3 had/has a pacing problem when it came to marathon slogging of hellspawn. Map 21/22/24 have been fairly criticized for not quite "fitting in" with the rest of e3, I think in large part because they were more bite-sized when compared to the string of magnum-opus after magnum-opus of e3. Therefore some other mega-sized maps and ultimate-showdowns got kicked by the wayside for the sake of pacing.

[Capellan]

As a big fan of the Flying Tomato Monster, map21 does kinda make me want to make a level that deserves the title "One Flew Over the Caco's Nest".

[Demon of the Well]

Vorpal said:

Even though I have obvious bias towards VoE, I must ultimately agree with Johnsen's reasoning that e3 had/has a pacing problem when it came to marathon slogging of hellspawn. Map 21/22/24 have been fairly criticized for not quite "fitting in" with the rest of e3, I think in large part because they were more bite-sized when compared to the string of magnum-opus after magnum-opus of e3. Therefore some other mega-sized maps and ultimate-showdowns got kicked by the wayside for the sake of pacing.

Oh yes, there is certainly something to be said for episodic pacing, and if one looks at all of Johnsen's huge epic maps, it's not difficult to see that "Valley of Echoes" was the most unpolished/unpracticed/rough around the edges (though "Stench of Evil" arguably had more excess fat to trim...), and so in that sense it was a perfectly reasonable choice to be cut and replaced by "Clandestine Complex", ultimately a much leaner and tidier map, all issues of thematic clashing aside. My point is not so much that there were no good reasons to cut VoE and replace it with something else, as that there were no good reasons to keep OFOTCN instead of also cutting it and replacing it with something else (perhaps something equally short/quick, if desired)--it's a dud! It's bad in the context of AV's third episode, bad in the context of AV as a whole, and would be bad as a standalone map. The original VoE may or may not have cleaned up nicely if there had been more time, but it offered interesting ideas if nothing else; CC may or may not be too thematically askew to truly belong with the rest of E3, but in a vacuum it's a solid, respectable map in its own right; OFOTCN offers next to nothing of merit in any context (IMO, of course). So, seeing as the decision to make cuts from the original set was eventually reached, it's just strange to me that this one dodged the blade, though of course there were likely all sorts of practical concerns at the time someone outside of the team couldn't relate to, I'm sure.

Pablo did eventually learn to make maps worthy of being taken seriously, incidentally. One wonders what OFOTCN would look like if he made it today...?

[Salt-Man Z]

MAP20: Misri Haley
58:22 | 100% Everything

Man, I put this off for almost a week, just because MAP20 is such a beast. (I had recently blitzed through it on IDDQD/IDFA to show my son just how massive it was, so it was fresh in my mind what I was getting into.) And it wasn't as bad as I'd feared. I mean, yes, it absolutely blew me away the first time I played it—easily the pinnacle of the WAD for me. But I really was hesitant to grind through it all again. Instead, I beat the thing in under an hour and was pleasantly surprised! Yes, it's a little grindy in parts: how many times do I have to face a noble or five in a corridor? Yes, the switchback up the mountainside gets a little tedious—but the sheer spectacle of finally surmounting the climb is one of the map's defining moments: just sheer awe. There's a couple moments of Eternal-style "Where do I go next?" that still puzzled me, though (thankfully) only briefly this time. And the lone spiderdemon (guarding those awesome-looking portals) as the finale is highly underwhelming. BUT. This map is still a masterpiece. Whoo boy, I'm still in love.


MAP21: One Flew Over the Caco's Nest
9:37 | 100% Kills | 97% Items | 0% Secrets

I really want to say something nice about this level. "It's not that bad!" I mean, I love the aesthetics and the detail. It's okay as a palate-cleanser after Misri. That's...uh, about all I can muster. Most damning in my eyes is the fact that you can't go back to check for secrets. Messed up my scores, dang it.

[Demon of the Well]

Map 22 -- Rubicon - 100% Kills / 100% Secrets
I had previously said that I remembered this being the weakest of Vorpal's maps in AV. Playing it again now, I'd say it's definitely the most understated, both structurally and in terms of combat design--the most "B-sidey" to trot out that analogy again, if you like--but palatable enough, nonetheless. The most linear of his AV contributions, again it at least kinda follows a north/south columnar plan with the player starting in the middle--there's just not much scope for wandering out of sequence this go-round, usually only a single path is available at any given point. Thematically it seems a natural continuation on the eclectic Inferno theme from Dictter's map just prior, even using some of the uncomfortably low ceilings and squalid depictions of offal and ichor leaking out of gothic masonry in places, though thankfully there's much more variation in physical scale and in the diegetic framing of the path than in the previous map, ala the bridge over the mostly subterranean blood-river early on (presumably the Rubicon itself, from the nomenclature). The blue computer server-room ceilings used in a few places look a mite gross to me, but considering the aforementioned 'classical' IWAD-ish slant on the Hell theme it's not too hard to digest.

The only features of the map I was able to clearly recall before replaying it this month were the cyberdemon who eventually materializes in the banner-decked marble hall to the north, and the artillery emplacements of mancubi overlooking the bridge over the Rubicon early on. Most of the content is straightforward slobberknocker stuff which, in contrast to Vorpal's other maps in the set, follows a bit more of a traditional progression in both enemy and weapon placement, starting out with small groups of imps, demons, and zombies pitted against your shotgun and chaingun, and then steadily introducing additional weapons just as they're needed--i.e. you get the RL right after running over the aforementioned bridge for the first time, and the plasma rifle right before the cyberdemon appears (though in this playthrough I promptly got distracted by the teleporter booth opening nearby and so forgot I'd picked it up all of .47 seconds after doing so, and thus SSG'd the cyb instead--totally my fault, of course, not the mapper's). All this makes for a markedly more conventional battle experience than the HR-inflected E2 stuff by the same author, presumably to ease the player further into E3 before really ramping up into the endgame epics. It's not without some tasty bits of cheerfully exaggerated bloodshed--the dual warp-in waves all of two feet away from the muzzle of your gun in the humble library hub spring to mind--but on the whole it's more understated and unassuming than anything else in its episode. Map 21 is an obvious stylistic outlier regardless of one's personal assessment of its worth, m23 is not particularly remarkable in the action dept. but is another of Malde's tour de forces of setting, m24 is immediately memorable because it seems like (and reportedly actually was!) something out of a different mapset entirely, and 25 and onwards is Johnsen's XXL endgame extravaganza (guest-starring Catalaa and Woodman). "Rubicon" is thus a bit lost in the shuffle--the curse of the 'good son', perhaps--though on its own merits it's perfectly playable and presentable.

[gaspe]

Map27: Long level with lots of monsters. The major areas feel a bit disconnected on their own I must say, but I loved how the map builds a cool sense of a journey. Going out of the red marble castle to pass through the ice cave and finally reach the big green castle. On the whole it makes you feel like you actually made a long travel in the hellish lands. I'm not really fond of the first maze with the pinkies and the big group of barons was quite a letdown, the map picks up when you enter in the last fortress. From there visually everything looks heavily inspired by Thy Flesh Consumed and many fights are quite harsh. I like the hut where the red key stands. I remembered this map pretty well and I really loved it, though only now I understood what it makes it to be so good to me.

[dew]

Demon of the Well said:

^^I'll change my vote to BrutalWAD if and only if all 12 of you agitating for it promise to stick around and post about it in detail for the duration, rather than leaving the task (and it will be a task) up to the rest of us. ;)

Watching Linguica write with ^sup and _sub thought interrupts for a month? Hell yeah I'm in. On a more serious note, DWMC is probably my only option for playing (and finishing) the BD campaign, so you can bet I'd join.

[rehelekretep]

does the BrutalWAD have to played with all the added Brutal Doom effects?

[Spectre01]

rehelekretep said:

does the BrutalWAD have to played with all the added Brutal Doom effects?

It can be played without any gameplay mods, but at what cost? I know Project Brutality causes some trigger issues here and there. I'll change my vote if there's actual interest to play it.

[Paul977]

Map 27 Stench of Evil:

I remember back when I played this map, the first thing that came to my mind to was: "This is the true hell" and it did strive me a lot for complete it. With time this map has become one of my favorite levels if not the favorite of the set.
Thanks to the incredible fitting music and the hellish environment (inspired by e3 and e4 from utimate doom) this level manages to put a distress sensation to me like few other maps that I played.
Since the beginning of the map until the ice maze included it's, for me, the most intense part from this point of view, after, when we reach the main fortress, the distressing atmosphere lightens up a bit but not much.
The author gives us the whole arsenal at the start suggesting a slaughter map to come, actually it is not the case: in this map you have to use the right weapon at the right situation without wasting too much ammo, in particular cells.
One thing that I really like of this map is the monsters placement which is, to say the little, truly good. One example of that is on the early red stone fortress where there are commandos snipers on both sides, hidden barons and escape routes blocked by mancubus.
Another is the room with the two arch-viles and the pain elementals into the pits with an arachnotron strategically placed so that you'll run into ammo troubles if you don't quickly kills the viles duo.
The weakest part of the map, imo, is the Jansen's section of the level: there the monsters tend substantially to kill each other and I found it a superfluous area in a map which is very long even without that section - although very well designed and thematically consistent.
There is much more to say about this map (for example, the great designed red key area both for aesthetics and the fights); I conclude by saying that this is a beautiful level where the hell theme is masterfully made, the grim atmosphere even and it deserves to be replayed several times to be able to appreciate it even better.

[antares031]

MAP28 - Whispering Shadows
ZDoom, UV - Pistol Start, KIS(%): 100/97/100

This level starts with soft beginning, then there's a Cyberdemon in the next hall. While other monster placements work fine with me, this level throws Cyberdemons in unexpected ways. Ignore the first Cyberdemon if you're playing with pistol start, and just jump to the next sector. The next Cyberdemon is easy to deal; camping with SSG right next to the window. And after you get the BFG, the other Cyberdemons are pretty much same to fight, shooting BFG until they die. Other than Cyberdemons, the combat is okay, with good combination of lots of small action scenes and a few mass murders. The secrets placements are also acceptable, except one with soulsphere next to the red brick room with a skull switch. It took me numerous jump attempts with rising lift to get that one. The scale of level is a little bit underwhelming compare to the previous three levels, but this level was enjoyable in the end.

[Capellan]

Map28
Well, on the plus side this map has only half the monster stew that the last map did. And it doesn’t have any encounter areas quite as superfluous as those in the red key wing of map27, either.

On the other hand, it is once more a collection of mostly-monotextured zones (the worst offender being the ashwall canyon - more like asswall, amirite?), and it’s again presented more as a series of puzzles to solve than a coherent whole. The few of these that stick out in my memory tend to do so for the wrong reasons: distant hitscanners over wide open areas, blind jumps with monsters you can’t see below you, that sort of thing.

I did quite enjoy the cyber battle in the courtyard with the red doors: decent combo of monsters despite the (of course) chaingunner snipers whittling your health away while you’re battling the big guy. I think I got pretty lucky here with the RNG and demons doing me the favour of acting as meat shields.

Episode three of AV is something of a slog, to be honest.

[darkreaver]

Got totally off track, so just a few short comments (basically just if I like them or not...) on each map

map22: Another Spencer map. As much as I like Vorpal-maps, this one is just OK. Actually, when I think about it, its my least fav Vorpal map that I can think of right now.

map23: The worst thing here is that the PG is in a secret (luckily I knew about it). The best think is the looks. Gameplay-wise its OK, but nothing special.

map24: Never really liked this map, but I dont know why to be honest. I guess it simply lacks a certain "feeling" Im always after when playing maps. Even though I DONT mind shifts in themes and lack of consitency in episodes, this map still feels out of place.

map25: Nostalgia to the max. I still dig this map today. The music is really fitting, and I really dig the tune so the constant looping of the song doesnt hurt the map imo. I looked up the map in DB and its really "small" and simple actually. Feels a lot bigger in game. Cool stuff.

map26: Not a big fan of the gameplay here, because its moslty cleaning up from around corners OR pretty unfair traps (well...Im making a bunch of really unfair maps these days myself so I really shouldnt complain). I dig he clean design and theme though. All in all cool, but I rarely play this map.

map27: I remember digging this map, but back then I liked all maps in AV because it was new and exiting and epic and whatnot. Now...not so much. Some cool locations throughout the map, but it feels like Andy had lots of ideas for maps that he never finished and then went on and pasted them all together to form this map.

map28: I like the atmosphere in this one, but it does suffer from some of the same stuff as map27 did. Better than the last map. It gets a pass on the nostalgia score.