Disjunction, small mapset project - RELEASED [17.2.2017], on /idgames

[dew]

1 hour ago, Paul977 said:

Check out this FDA made by dew maybe it can help you http://www.mediafire.com/file/yddx8l20df3eycp/dj_rc2_10-11fdas.7z

It should be mentioned that they're for RC2 and the map changed in places, so in order to replay that demo you need to use this wad: https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B1NxOZlEf5aNdEhvVEVUZFhjcFk/view?usp=sharing

 

And yeah, that start area of map10 is naaaasty, heh.

[GarrettChan]

7 minutes ago, dew said:

It should be mentioned that they're for RC2 and the map changed in places, so in order to replay that demo you need to use this wad: https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B1NxOZlEf5aNdEhvVEVUZFhjcFk/view?usp=sharing

 

And yeah, that start area of map10 is naaaasty, heh.

It cost me like 2 hours to run through the map with S/L... I had only 10+ rockets left... This map made Foundry like a joke...

 

Then I took 2 more hours to figure out the route for single-segment. I have a conservative approach, but it's sort of RNG based, and ammo is SO tight! Probably this is beyond of my skill level.

[UglyStru]

55 minutes ago, Paul977 said:

Check out this FDA made by dew maybe it can help you http://www.mediafire.com/file/yddx8l20df3eycp/dj_rc2_10-11fdas.7z

If I can even remember how to run those damn things. That's one of those prBoom files I gotta run through a .bat right?

 

1 hour ago, GarrettChan said:

I guess the best way is to Arch-vile jump to the platform with 2 Soulspheres and Armors, then you can kill two Arch-viles there. If you want to go in a "legit" way, it may kick you arse...

I'm probably the worst out of the entire Doom community at vile jumping.

[Phade102]

Just now, stru said:

If I can even remember how to run those damn things. That's one of those prBoom files I gotta run through a .bat right?

 

I'm probably the worst out of the entire Doom community at vile jumping.

You can do it Stru! I supported you through map08, and i'll support you here! cant wait to see the vids!

[UglyStru]

2 minutes ago, Phade102 said:

You can do it Stru! I supported you through map08, and i'll support you here! cant wait to see the vids!

Idk man. Foundry was a lot less RNG-based than the upcoming... :/ Might not see a vid after MAP09 for a while. I probably ended up throwing my monitor out my window or something. 

[Paul977]

4 hours ago, stru said:

If I can even remember how to run those damn things. That's one of those prBoom files I gotta run through a .bat right?

Nope, use this version of the wad to watch that demo: https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B1NxOZlEf5aNdEhvVEVUZFhjcFk/view?usp=sharing , select the wad file and the .lmp file, then drag both simultaneously into prboom+.exe

[GarrettChan]

@dew

How much time did you cost to finish Map10? I'm still thinking whether I should run this map since I feel this may be beyond my skill for now.

In the meantime, I may run other maps. Glad that I picked 4 and 6 first, so the remaining 2, 3 and 5 should be fairly enjoyable.

[UglyStru]

14 hours ago, Paul977 said:

Nope, use this version of the wad to watch that demo: https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B1NxOZlEf5aNdEhvVEVUZFhjcFk/view?usp=sharing , select the wad file and the .lmp file, then drag both simultaneously into prboom+.exe

Easier than I thought. Last time I tried running these, I had to do it through a .bat file and it was a nightmare getting it right. 

[UglyStru]

So as an update, I actually find myself surviving MAP10 better than MAP08. However, there's a switch puzzle a little ways through that is pretty much impossible to reach. Is this switch puzzle meant to be a coop puzzle? Because there's no way I can hit a switch, ledge run across to hit the other switch which allows me to cross the platforms and run across those platforms and pass through before the bars raise. Not only is it fucking hard as shit difficult, but I think that the platforms lower too slow to cross and get in before the teleporter(?) closes. 

 

If you played the map you guys know what I'm talking about lol I can't show screens or anything because I'm at work right now.

[floatRand]

2 hours ago, stru said:

So as an update, I actually find myself surviving MAP10 better than MAP08. However, there's a switch puzzle a little ways through that is pretty much impossible to reach. Is this switch puzzle meant to be a coop puzzle? Because there's no way I can hit a switch, ledge run across to hit the other switch which allows me to cross the platforms and run across those platforms and pass through before the bars raise. Not only is it fucking hard as shit difficult, but I think that the platforms lower too slow to cross and get in before the teleporter(?) closes. 

 

If you played the map you guys know what I'm talking about lol I can't show screens or anything because I'm at work right now.

It's supposed to be done in single run.

Plus, it isn't strictly necessary, mostly serves as a way to get back start. 

 

On offtopic note, is it possible to set BBCode-editing on? 

Edited May 26, 2017 by floatRand

[GarrettChan]

2 hours ago, stru said:

Because there's no way I can hit a switch, ledge run across to hit the other switch which allows me to cross the platforms and run across those platforms and pass through before the bars raise.

You probably hit the last two switches in wrong order, as what I did before. Notice the bars lower longer than the gate of teleporter. However, that teleporter just takes you to where you Arch-vile jump to at the beginning, so you can totally ignore it.

 

Oh crap, floatRand is quick!

Edited May 26, 2017 by GarrettChan

[UglyStru]

Ahh, okay so fuck that teleporter. Thanks guys!

[UglyStru]

Has there been a single player that was able to solo the last battle of MAP10? I pretty much got everything else completed but those viles and caco hordes make this virtually impossible. As Dew said, there aren't enough cells to complete it. Bad enough you have to worry about getting caught by a vile or stray fireball or two, but you can't BFG spam here. You could rocket spam but the revenants get in the way 99% of the time and make it nearly impossible to kill the viles. There's also not NEARLY enough ammo to combat the caco hordes. So even if you manage to take out the viles with your BFG, you can't survive the cacos. 

 

Was this map just not meant to 100%? With enough luck I may be able to sneak by and fall into the exit. But god damn, this is brutal. I've got a better chance beating Dark Souls with a Guitar Hero controller. 

[GarrettChan]

7 minutes ago, stru said:

Was this map just not meant to 100%?

I guess you're talking about the Blue Key room? The Arch-viles spawns counterclockwise (If I remember correctly) from 6:00, then 3:00. There are total of 8. The first one is annoying, so you need to lure the Revenants to the 12:00 direction a bit, and take out the Arch-vile. Just wait for the spawn and take them out ASAP. After killing the 8th one, a Cyberdemon is joining the party, and you can just get outta there. Wait for everything cluster in the gate and clusterf*ck them to death... This won't leave the corpses inside the room for the final Arch-viles to do things.

 

If you're already doing so... probably nothing else I can do... at least for now.

Edited May 28, 2017 by GarrettChan

[elderdragonbrasil]

Man, that wad is really hard! floatRand really did a beautiful job in the architeture, but I hope he places less monsters and more ammo next time.

[Killer5]

@stru

Here is a completion from a playthrough I did after I saw your comment. I dunno what your cell count is going into this room though.

 

Finished with 1 monster remaining.. but I also missed a secret so the monster could have been there.

[GarrettChan]

5 hours ago, Killer5 said:

Finished with 1 monster remaining.. but I also missed a secret so the monster could have been there.

Wow, you don't even bother getting out the room. Thumb up for that... Until I saw you finished so many crazy runs. Long road for me, long road.

 

After running through the map one more time, I think the last one monster can't teleport in, which happened to me twice.

Edited May 28, 2017 by GarrettChan

[UglyStru]

16 hours ago, Killer5 said:

@stru

Here is a completion from a playthrough I did after I saw your comment. I dunno what your cell count is going into this room though.

 

Finished with 1 monster remaining.. but I also missed a secret so the monster could have been there.

Holy shit nice!!! My cell count was very low so I guess that's a reason why I had trouble, but good job on the viles. I'll take this as a tip; ignore everything else and just go for viles. Once they're gone, I see it's much easier to dodge the cacodemons. My problem is they kept trapping me and I had nowhere to go. This is another one of those circumstances where luck is involved :/ 

[Killer5]

I don't think luck is involved at all. This is just a well designed fight. If you are still having problems because of a very low cell count then I find that cool actually. Maps where you can screw yourself over because of poorly managing resources are very interesting. A change of pace from the norm (giving enough ammo for the player to kill everything no problem).

[GarrettChan]

Finally, I finished Map10, so excited. It seems I can't find the trigger of the last monster (1 of the initial 8 Arch-viles), so floatRand, please tell me it's actually inaccessible. Otherwise, I'll kill myself doing all this again. I don't know why sometimes a monster will target me even I didn't do anything, and there are others hitting him. It seems this only happens in GlBoom+, not in GZDoom though. After I finished writing, I found myself wordy as heck, so please don't mind.

 

Talking about architecture, I have nothing too much to say, and it looks like Foundry 2.0, but I like the room with a thing looks like a guillotine.

 

Then, gameplay is the thing here. This is a map with quite some supplies, but not enough to kill everything by yourself. Therefore, you have to make infights here and there. Since I used Arch-vile jump to reach those 45 Rockets, I don't know how to actually deal with the starting room in the normal or intended way. Then, I like the idea of setting two powerful weapons (SSG and Plasma Rifle) in 2 gauntlets. There are two teleporters in each of these gauntlets. I assume the middle one is for you to esacpe, so it provides an alternative way if you don't want to kill everything. Nice touch.

 

Yellow Key Route:

NE Room (holding the Yellow Skull): The most difficult part is fighting the Cyberdemon behind the bloodfall because you can't really see well, and you have not much space to stand. I noticed that there are small ledges on both side, so I used them to lure the Hell Knight and telefrag it.

 

E Room (holding the SSG): The thing here is you don't want to release the Revenants when you're forced to switch weapon, so walk slow. I guess it's possible to put the trigger on the SSG instead of a line? Also, the fences there, if you put your face on it, you can trigger some infights outside, but they usually can't hurt you, usually.

 

SE Room (2 Mancubi + 3 Pain Elementals +...): There's an invisible wall at the edge of the platform, so Lost Souls and Pain Elementals can't fly through. I don't know whether this is intended, but I used it anyway. Those 3 Pain Elementals are so annoying to deal with, especially having infinite height.

 

Red Key Route:

NW Room 1 (Gunner traps): Not much to say, proceed with caution.

 

Between NW Rooms (Platforming): I guess you deliberately make something for players who don't care about 100%? Although it's easy for me now, it's  pretty tough to navigate through it. However, if you're going for 100%, this part can be totally ignored.

 

NW Room 2 (holding the Red Skull): In my opinion, this room could be switched with the SW room, or probably floatRand wants to give players an easier time for the Red Skull.

 

W Room (holding the Plasma Rifle): Same as E Room.

 

SW Room (Guillotine room): Due to the obstacles, it's a pretty intense room to fight a Cyberdemon.

 

Central Room:

Nervewrecking but fun BFG fight, if there's no Pain Elementals...

 

Blue Skull Room / Exit:

Most of the supplies and almost half of the enemies are here. 8 Arch-viles spawn in counter-clockwise order. I like how the player should time them mentally and precisely, with the consideration of the delay of BFG shots. Then, the scene that the Cyberdemon screams and joins the party, cracks me up for some reason.

 

Other Thoughts:

Is there anyway to take on the Blue Skull Room first to claim a lot of rockets before doing other rooms? However, it may require the BFG to do it, so is it OK to do the BFG fight with limited weaponry and ammo?

 

My Run:

It's very... very slow because I have to take a breath from part to part to relax my nerve a little bit. Probably this is the safest approach I can get. It contains a lot of problems here and there:

1. Accidentally walked into teleporters that I shouldn't.

2. Forgot about the Arch-vile spawned by hitting two switches after the BFG fight.

3. Knocked 2 Cyberdemons into the center pit.

4. The Cyberdemon in the Blue Skull walked out. Usually it's killed at the doorway.

 

Video Link:

Disjunction Map10 Video

 

Demo:

dj10-3742.zip

 

Edited June 10, 2017 by GarrettChan

[floatRand]

I hadn't noticed the issue with one monster not teleporting in. Peculiar, I gotta see into it.

I might have to push yet another update to it, but might as well fix ammo-problems in earlier maps while at it. Can't say when, since I have some deadlines to worry about. 

[GarrettChan]

39 minutes ago, floatRand said:

I hadn't noticed the issue with one monster not teleporting in. Peculiar, I gotta see into it.

I might have to push yet another update to it, but might as well fix ammo-problems in earlier maps while at it. Can't say when, since I have some deadlines to worry about. 

No problem, take your time.

 

I don't know how to use editors, so I'll try my best to explain which one is missing by this to reduce your work (if possible)

1,2: When you drop down from the starting pillar, two Archies will spawn in.

3,4: On the east side and west side of the map where two Chaingunners are, two Archies will spawn in.

5: When you go to the southern part, an Archie will spawn in.

6: Hitting those two switches (looks like a pearl) circled in dark green after getting the BFG, an Archie will spawn in.

7: Hitting the skull switch in the northern end of the map, an Archie will spawn in next to the Berserk Pack.

[UglyStru]

23 hours ago, Killer5 said:

I don't think luck is involved at all. This is just a well designed fight. If you are still having problems because of a very low cell count then I find that cool actually. Maps where you can screw yourself over because of poorly managing resources are very interesting. A change of pace from the norm (giving enough ammo for the player to kill everything no problem).

The real luck involved is not getting gangraped by cacodemons and making sure the archviles are positioned correctly to kill during the fight without having them hide behind the revenant army. Also gotta make sure they don't blast you out of the arena so they need to be attacking you at the perfect times. Knowing their spawn pattern only helps so much. 

[UglyStru]

23 hours ago, floatRand said:

I hadn't noticed the issue with one monster not teleporting in. Peculiar, I gotta see into it.

I might have to push yet another update to it, but might as well fix ammo-problems in earlier maps while at it. Can't say when, since I have some deadlines to worry about. 

Don't you dare go and fix shit after shoving a cactus in my ass with these maps. 

[UglyStru]

MAP10 IS DONE! Definitely not nearly as painful of a map as Foundry. I also didn't read @rdwpa's comments until now. I'll admit that I'm not the greatest Doomer and that this WAD is way out of my skill level on Ultra Violence, but it's truly beyond your normal UV maps. It's a completely different kind of difficulty with the limited amount of resources, and that's the complaint. Difficulty and fun could go hand-in-hand, which is why we usually play Ultra Violence. But when the things that make us enjoy UV are ripped from us, its like "....the fuck?" Some people may love the play style that the WAD instigates, but I just don't and it seems like that's the popular opinion as well. 

 

I have a final review for this WAD once I complete my LP. Aside from the saltiness, the WAD is beautiful and EXTREMELY impressive for a new mapper. The architecture, detail, scripting, design, etc. are amazing and I'm not knocking float's hustle here at all. I wouldn't be able to design anything like this, shit I can't even make a door without having to lay down and count to ten. I just get annoyed with the strict playstyle that the maps require, and I'm even more flustered with myself for choosing to play something I can't complete because I liked the MIDI choice of MAP01. But fuck, this dude made some solid maps. Very few bugs (which given the monster count, that's pretty god damn hard to do), very nice use of textures, very intricate architecture and design. I'm done here for now tho, I gotta continue to spend the rest of my night searching for MAP11's secrets. 

[UglyStru]

On 5/14/2017 at 6:00 PM, rdwpa said:

Phade102, this isn't the first time you've said something like this. You're wrong. There is an audience for very hard gameplay, and if that isn't your thing you have options: play on HNTR or HMP if those are implemented (if HNTR is still 'unbalanced', you may or may not have a complaint), or play something else entirely. A map being "impossible for the majority of players" isn't a valid criticism, unless that was an (implied) aim in the first place, for example if it was being designed for a mass-appeal community project. One important skill in giving feedback is being able to recognize when a map is just not for you. Because if a map is far out of your depth, you can't actually give meaningful feedback. 

 

This is the most verbose way of saying "git gud kid".

[GarrettChan]

31 minutes ago, stru said:

MAP10 IS DONE!

Did you miss one monster? I just want to know whether this is a design flaw, or I'm too careless to discover that. Good luck on Map11. I don't want to run that just now. Now If I'm looking backward, Map08 and Map10 are not that bad really. I agree with your idea the maps being not that fun because you have to be very patient. You can't get the good feeling of going in and gun blazing everything.

 

28 minutes ago, stru said:

This is the most verbose way of saying "git gud kid".

Meh, sometimes it's necessary to be nice, haha.

[UglyStru]

Spoiler

 

So it is done! Attached is a playlist of all of my runs, extra salty with a pinch of whine ;) A final review was also included at the end of MAP11. Thanks again for the wild ride, float.

[GarrettChan]

6 hours ago, stru said:

Thanks again for the wild ride, float.

I think floatRand really hates even numbers, and yeah, the difficulty alters between maps like a coaster ride :P

[GarrettChan]

Finished: 01, 04, 06, 07, 08, 09, 10, 11

Remaining: 02, 03, 05

 

Glad that I usually like to finish the difficult things first. Now I can totally say that I can UV -Max Disjunction since the remaining levels are easier compared to the later ones.

 

I have to say I'm very glad that floatRand updated Level 11... which reduces the monster count from 523 to 326. To be honest, I don't think there are more supplies in the original version, so it is literally unplayable (at least for me) unless you're extremely good at BFG. There were 2 more Cyberdemons, some Pain Elementals and a whole bunch of Cacodemons at the final area.

 

Difficult parts are:

1. Cyberdemon fight in the upper cliff

2. 9 Arch-viles coming out from those "portable toilets"

 

The size of the map fits the feeling of finale, and the music also fits perfectly. You can totally feel the GREATNESS in this map. Those towers on the mountain top are my favorite (one is holding a secret).

 

For my run, I spent some much time for just panicking and doing nothing at all, and dropping from places or such, but hey, I just wanted to beat the map. I'm sure one day @TheV1perK1ller will come in and totally destroy my time by finishing 10 minutes faster ;P  Anyway, really glad that I've done this.

 

Youtube Video:

Map11 in 24:34

 

Demo File:

dj11-2434.zip