REKKR - V1.16

[Andromeda]

Will the 4th episode be added to the /idgames version or is it meant to be Steam exclusive?

[Shadow Hog]

7 hours ago, Redneckerz said:

If that's the case, what are the requirements for running in DOS? A 486, or a Pentium? :)

Can't make any assertions on the 486 atm (don't have one), but I can confirm the 2019 build I tried (wherein I discovered several of the MIDI tracks didn't work - which has long since been fixed) worked swell on a Pentium 133. My assumption is that the 486 should be fine, though.

[Revae]

8 hours ago, Spectre01 said:

For those out of the loop with development, how is the Steam version different from the free release?

New episode 4. So new maps, with some new monsters, minor tweaks here and there. 3 new midis, new final boss, buncha textures and all. Just packaged standalone with gzdoom, for people who don't wanna play with source ports and such.

You can pull the iwad and rename to wad and it'll still run on whatever port you want though.

 

Steam/wherever else I end up selling it exclusive, but I plan to add the other updates outside of monsters, maps, midis, sounds, to the original version. Just bugfixes and tweaks. No eta on that.

Edited September 2, 2021 by Revae

[P41R47]

3 hours ago, Andromeda said:

Will the 4th episode be added to the /idgames version or is it meant to be Steam exclusive?

I'm not the one to tell for sure, but probably Steam exclusive.
That way, more people will want to buy it.
And surelly, Revae deserves our money.

So what is the number of your bank account, Rev?
I want to give you the scriptures of my house.

For the idgames version, i think we will have the tweaked and fixed of bugs version that is already an official add on, or maybe one essentially the same as the steam release, albeit without the new E4.

[Redneckerz]

3 hours ago, Shadow Hog said:

Can't make any assertions on the 486 atm (don't have one), but I can confirm the 2019 build I tried (wherein I discovered several of the MIDI tracks didn't work - which has long since been fixed) worked swell on a Pentium 133. My assumption is that the 486 should be fine, though.

That's just baller, honestly. Because by doing so (and being an IWAD), it technically counts as the first new original ID Tech 1 game since Strife that runs on DOS.

 

One should ought to change Wikipedia for it! :P

2 hours ago, Revae said:

New episode 4. So new maps, with some new monsters, minor tweaks here and there. 3 new midis, new final boss, buncha textures and all. Just packaged standalone with gzdoom, for people who don't wanna play with source ports and such.

You can pull the iwad and rename to wad and it'll still run on whatever port you want though.

So rename it to REKKR.WAD and i am good to go using just Doom2.exe?

 

Or is there a possibility for REKKR to ship with its own DOS-based executable (REKKR.exe) for that full on-authenticity?

 

The DOS part is important because if it can run as-is on a DOS machine, it should count as a new entry after Strife.

 

10 hours ago, Gez said:

A "real" fourth episode. In the free release it's just a set of bonus maps with no storyline attached.

Interesting take on the DLC concept if you ask me, in spirit.

[Revae]

Oh, no. I don't have the wherewithal to make a new dos exe with all the code pointers swapped around properly... Outside of just permanently dehacking an existing exe, which I think is still illegal to distribute (though I'm not sure why since the source is available anyway).  That would be interesting, tho.

So, you'd still have to dehack doom.exe.

 

I guess I spoke improperly. Just about any common port. Chocolate, GZDoom, retro, etc... It'll be named rekkrsl.wad to keep it distinct from shareware rekkr (ha).

It also come with a GZrekkr.wad for some cleaner GZDoom fixings. Edited menudef so things like freelook aren't togglable. New cheats so it feels more like a real game and not a mod... That sort of thing. It's all optional, outside of the steam download, in case anyone considers those annoyances.

[P41R47]

37 minutes ago, Revae said:

It also come with a GZrekkr.wad for some cleaner GZDoom fixings. Edited menudef so things like freelook aren't togglable. New cheats so it feels more like a real game and not a mod... That sort of thing. It's all optional, outside of the steam download, in case anyone considers those annoyances.

no annoyance, we want it actually :D
No more feeling like a mod, a proper game with proper cheats :)
REKKR is the game most of use always wanted on ID Tech1.

[Redneckerz]

1 hour ago, Revae said:

Oh, no. I don't have the wherewithal to make a new dos exe with all the code pointers swapped around properly... Outside of just permanently dehacking an existing exe, which I think is still illegal to distribute (though I'm not sure why since the source is available anyway).  That would be interesting, tho.

So, you'd still have to dehack doom.exe.

I know it is possible, perhaps one of the folks here can help you out?

 

I know Wraith777 supplies a custom Doom-plus executable with his work. Eternal Doom had a MakeIWAD option to merge the Eternal Doom resources with the Doom IWAD. Return of the Triad uses a fake IWAD to go standalone. FreeDM is a IWAD but its not very known as one. Robocop for Carlos's CDoom was an IWAD that ran in DOS. The Hacx 1.2 update from 2010 can run Hacx as a IWAD in DOS, but is not much talked about.

 

Searching around the forums tells me this kind of discussion is relatively unknown, instead referring to IPK3's for GZDoom.

1 hour ago, Revae said:

I guess I spoke improperly. Just about any common port. Chocolate, GZDoom, retro, etc... It'll be named rekkrsl.wad to keep it distinct from shareware rekkr (ha).

And Vanilla ;)

[Revae]

24 minutes ago, Redneckerz said:

And Vanilla ;)

I hope. We'll see. Like I said I haven't tested the new dehacked file in vanilla yet, and I know that some changes that chocolate can run (or at least could 3 years ago, it might be more accurate now) might break vanilla.

[HavoX]

Played it yesterday, and I was reminded of a Wolf3D TC called Orb of Dilaaria (anyone remember that one?)

Edited September 3, 2021 by HavoX

[HavoX]

But ANYway... the thing I like about TCs such as this one is that they give it a distinct personality. It's almost like you're not playing Doom at all!

[Revae]

I tried to make it as different as possible within dehacked limits without making it *too* hacky.

[Redneckerz]

18 hours ago, Revae said:

I hope. We'll see. Like I said I haven't tested the new dehacked file in vanilla yet, and I know that some changes that chocolate can run (or at least could 3 years ago, it might be more accurate now) might break vanilla.

Did some testing on DOS:

• rekkrsa.wad needs a rename to doom.wad
• Loading it alongside rekkr.deh shows the title screen but will bomb out with a P_SpawnThing error.

So... it is nearly there when it comes to running on DOS.

[P41R47]

5 hours ago, Redneckerz said:

Did some testing on DOS:

• rekkrsa.wad needs a rename to doom.wad
• Loading it alongside rekkr.deh shows the title screen but will bomb out with a P_SpawnThing error.

So... it is nearly there when it comes to running on DOS.

I think that only renaming the wad to doom would not do the trick as there far more data on REKKRSA.wad than in doom.wad

So deusf and dehacked need to be use along to create a proper hacked .exe with all the strings and things changed around, and all the texture patches included and usable by the .exe.

I did it with VULD, and it work without problem :)
Playtested the whole thing on doomPLUS.exe to be able to play the limit removing maps on the bonus episode.
It works like a charm for sure.

A minor thing that could be use for the completelly vanilla part and doesn't change anything of the actual release or the new steam release, is changing the string that said what resource wad to use.
It is still doom, so even after applying the dehacked patch to the exe, the new exe still seek doom.wad to play.

So, if it is changed inside the dehacked patch, to rekkrsa there would be no need to add it as a -file option after the merge.

Edited September 3, 2021 by P41R47

[HavoX]

Uh! Looks like I found a slight boo-boo in E2M3:

 

[Revae]

11 minutes ago, HavoX said:

Uh! Looks like I found a slight boo-boo in E2M3:

 

I would be more surprised if you didn't on that map. Nearly the entire level is off-grid (purposefully). Rendering issues like that were bound to show up. I'll wiggle the vert, but if that doesn't fix it then o-well.

 

Thanks for playtesting my map and making your DW title a lie. ;-)

Edited September 3, 2021 by Revae

[HavoX]

^{Disclaimer: This post was made on September 3, 2021. If you don't understand what's going on, my title back then was "No, I will not playtest your levels." After this post was made, I changed it to "No, I will not(?) playtest your levels."}

 

On 9/3/2021 at 6:16 PM, Revae said:

and making your DW title a lie. ;-)

 

Well, it shouldn't really be taken seriously :-P

 

EDIT: it's actually a parody of the "No I will not fix your computer" T-shirt phenomenon, but I went ahead and changed my title a bit so it (probably) won't cause any more confusion. But still... try not to take it too seriously.

Edited October 10, 2021 by HavoX
added some clarification

[Redneckerz]

19 hours ago, P41R47 said:

I think that only renaming the wad to doom would not do the trick as there far more data on REKKRSA.wad than in doom.wad

So deusf and dehacked need to be use along to create a proper hacked .exe with all the strings and things changed around, and all the texture patches included and usable by the .exe.

I did it with VULD, and it work without problem :)
Playtested the whole thing on doomPLUS.exe to be able to play the limit removing maps on the bonus episode.
It works like a charm for sure.

So, if we were to use the shareware exe, would that work when using DeHacked? We are technically in a shimmering here regarding legality, then again an exe does not do jack without an IWAD. Me thinks renaming the thing so that rekkr.wad is recognized as an iwad (instead of renaming it to doom.wad).

[P41R47]

19 minutes ago, Redneckerz said:

So, if we were to use the shareware exe, would that work when using DeHacked?

I need to try it to be sure, but i suspect it don't, otherwise, distributing the .exe wouldn't be illegal as it would be the same as the shareware version :/
If you can ''install'' the v1.9 from this link, i would gladly experiment.
It crash for some reason on my end.
 

19 minutes ago, Redneckerz said:

Me thinks renaming the thing so that rekkr.wad is recognized as an iwad (instead of renaming it to doom.wad).

There is actually a workaround for that:
 

19 hours ago, P41R47 said:

A minor thing that could be use for the completelly vanilla part and doesn't change anything of the actual release or the new steam release, is changing the string that said what resource wad to use.
It is still doom, so even after applying the dehacked patch to the exe, the new exe still seek doom.wad to play.

So, if it is changed inside the dehacked patch, to rekkrsa there would be no need to add it as a -file option after the merge.

if one change the name of the string on dehacked from ''doom'' to ''rekkrsa'', then rekkrsa.wad will be recognized as an IWAD.
Obviously, after applying the dehacked patch to the .exe.

Edited September 4, 2021 by P41R47

[Shadow Hog]

AFAIK the rub there is that DEH strings can't be longer than the existing one? You might be better off renaming it to something like "RE.KKR", which is a few characters less, or "REKK.RSA" for exactly the same number.

[P41R47]

3 hours ago, Shadow Hog said:

AFAIK the rub there is that DEH strings can't be longer than the existing one? You might be better off renaming it to something like "RE.KKR", which is a few characters less, or "REKK.RSA" for exactly the same number.

I just tried it and it worked without problem :D
I modified the original .deh file on Ultimate Doom 1.9, to be compatible with the vanilla .exe
Then i launched rekkr.exe and it searched for rekkrsa.wad
;)

Edited September 4, 2021 by P41R47

[Gez]

4 hours ago, Shadow Hog said:

AFAIK the rub there is that DEH strings can't be longer than the existing one?

It's not entirely true. The strings cannot be longer than there's space for them in the exe. Sometimes, for various reasons such as byte aligment, there may be extra space available. For example, the string "doom.wad" is nine characters long (the eight actual characters, and then the null terminator). So to get the next string to start at an address that's a multiple of 4 (32-bit alignment), you may have three extra bytes of padding that you can safely overwrite.

 

4 hours ago, Redneckerz said:

So, if we were to use the shareware exe

Technically there's no such thing as a shareware exe, Doom uses the same executable for shareware and registered version. (Only thing that changes is the filename.) Doom II also uses the same executable. Now this is all a bit muddled by the various versions of the executable floating around, of course.

Edited September 4, 2021 by Gez

[P41R47]

5 minutes ago, Gez said:

Technically there's no such thing as a shareware exe, Doom uses the same executable for shareware and registered version. (Only thing that changes is the filename.) Doom II also uses the same executable. Now this is all a bit muddled by the various versions of the executable floating around, of course.

So... technically, it would be possible to distribute the modified .exe, right?
I mean, the shareware is up there to grab, and it comes with the .exe

I can't make the damn thing work, but i'm talking about this one:
https://www.doomworld.com/idgames/idstuff/doom/doom19s

EDIT: maybe distribute, but not sell...little shitty catch right there D:

Edited September 4, 2021 by P41R47

[Biz!]

 

24 minutes ago, P41R47 said:

So... technically, it would be possible to distribute the modified .exe, right?
I mean, the shareware is up there to grab, and it comes with the .exe

I can't make the damn thing work, but i'm talking about this one:
https://www.doomworld.com/idgames/idstuff/doom/doom19s

EDIT: maybe distribute, but not sell...little shitty catch right there D:

It's most likely legal to sell modified iwads with the exe as long as it isn't doom.wad, doom2.wad, etc...

[MrFlibble]

Aren't there fully free, fully functional DOS ports of the Doom code that are 100% legal to use? Surely someone would be happy to help with REKKR and build a custom DOS binary from the sources of those.

 

Out of those projects, I only remembered Doom Vanille (I guess Boom/MBF would be too non-vanilla for this?).

[Charlie Love]

Doom 1 shareware was legal to distribute and sell wasn't it? 

[Revae]

27 minutes ago, MrFlibble said:

guess Boom/MBF would be too non-vanilla for this?

Something with raised limits would probably be better anyway for insurance. I don't have the wherewithal atm, but there's no reason I can think why it wouldn't be legal anyway...

[NightFright]

9 minutes ago, Charlie Love said:

Doom 1 shareware was legal to distribute and sell wasn't it? 

I would tend towards: Distributing yes, selling... rather not.

Edited September 4, 2021 by NightFright

[Charlie Love]

3 minutes ago, NightFright said:

I would tend towards: Distributing yes, selling... rather not.

It was actually legal to sell for a suggested retail 9 dollars price back in the day. No clue if that's still possible, though. 

[NightFright]

With the rights now owned by Bethesda, it's almost a safe bet to assume anything that was possible and allowed back then no longer is.

Edited September 5, 2021 by NightFright