Why has no one made a fan made doom 64 sequel?

[Arctangent]

MinerOfWorlds said:

Unless you look at them side by side you won't notice.

That is absolutely incorrect. Doom 64 would look a lot crappier without its special type of lighting, due to the fact that the textures are designed with it in mind - aka mostly grayscale, and mostly flat. It's seriously no exaggeration that it's one of the biggest factors to Doom 64's feel that isn't available in standard Doom ports, with the other being the frame rate.

[Nevander]

MinerOfWorlds said:

What about the player's speed? it's slower in doom 64.

Speed is decreased and gravity is lowered, may still need fine tuning. Testing will be done later on once more maps are made so I can gauge the correct distance you can travel in what speed and how far of a gap you can cross.

[MinerOfWorlds]

Arctangent said:

That is absolutely incorrect. Doom 64 would look a lot crappier without its special type of lighting, due to the fact that the textures are designed with it in mind - aka mostly grayscale, and mostly flat. It's seriously no exaggeration that it's one of the biggest factors to Doom 64's feel that isn't available in standard Doom ports, with the other being the frame rate.

If it's the same general brightness it's not a very noticeable difference i'm not saying if it's the wrong color it's not noticeable.

Nevander said:

Speed is decreased and gravity is lowered, may still need fine tuning. Testing will be done later on once more maps are made so I can gauge the correct distance you can travel in what speed and how far of a gap you can cross.

The project seem's to be going well i just hope it doesn't get dropped like doom 64 II the Rising.

[Nevander]

Little bit of an update: I've decided to switch map formats to UDMF after all.

What sold me on it was seeing how damn easy sector coloring is. That was the most tedious thing in Hexen format. You had to tag a sector, give it the right RGB color, and of course the script method you can't see it until you test. Then what if a sector is tagged already? You gotta go and freakin' do another script line for that one, and so on.

Now I can color them all and see it in visual mode, and tweak on the fly. Should speed up the sector coloring aspect quite a bit. Only sector coloring via scripts I'll need now is when you do something in the map and a color changes.

UDMF also now allows me to cut down on some scripts in general and lets me place some smexy dynamic lights in places that make sense, for example flashing computer monitors. I notice BD64 did that on some maps too (not trying to copy, it just looks cool).

The only thing I've noticed I don't like about UDMF: the file size. A 100 KB map in Hexen format is now almost 3 MB. Why is that exactly? I guess if the map editor has to write every single sector, line, thing, and effect in text it's gonna get long.

But anyway, it's good that Hexen format is so similar to UDMF. It means the work I've done thus far wasn't wasted. I've cleaned up and made adjustments to Staging Area in UDMF. I'm almost done with The Terraformer in Hexen format but I'm going to change it to UDMF and finish it there.

[scifista42]

Nevander said:

The only thing I've noticed I don't like about UDMF: the file size. A 100 KB map in Hexen format is now almost 3 MB. Why is that exactly? I guess if the map editor has to write every single sector, line, thing, and effect in text it's gonna get long.

Feel free to look at the contents of your map's TEXTMAP lump in text mode, see how many characters does each vertex / linedef / sector / sidedef / thing entry take up, and compare it with size-per-entry of map data lumps as defined on the respective wiki pages for each of these lumps.

[Nevander]

scifista42 said:

Feel free to look at the contents of your map's TEXTMAP lump in text mode, see how many characters does each vertex / linedef / sector / sidedef / thing entry take up, and compare it with size-per-entry of map data lumps as defined on the respective wiki pages for each of these lumps.

Holy shit.. it amazes me how people can come up with this stuff. Makes me feel like a neanderthal. Also, your post was reply #64! :D

[MinerOfWorlds]

Nevander said:

Little bit of an update: I've decided to switch map formats to UDMF after all.

What sold me on it was seeing how damn easy sector coloring is. That was the most tedious thing in Hexen format. You had to tag a sector, give it the right RGB color, and of course the script method you can't see it until you test. Then what if a sector is tagged already? You gotta go and freakin' do another script line for that one, and so on.

Now I can color them all and see it in visual mode, and tweak on the fly. Should speed up the sector coloring aspect quite a bit. Only sector coloring via scripts I'll need now is when you do something in the map and a color changes.

UDMF also now allows me to cut down on some scripts in general and lets me place some smexy dynamic lights in places that make sense, for example flashing computer monitors. I notice BD64 did that on some maps too (not trying to copy, it just looks cool).

The only thing I've noticed I don't like about UDMF: the file size. A 100 KB map in Hexen format is now almost 3 MB. Why is that exactly? I guess if the map editor has to write every single sector, line, thing, and effect in text it's gonna get long.

But anyway, it's good that Hexen format is so similar to UDMF. It means the work I've done thus far wasn't wasted. I've cleaned up and made adjustments to Staging Area in UDMF. I'm almost done with The Terraformer in Hexen format but I'm going to change it to UDMF and finish it there.

That's great to hear!

[Nevander]

Started on Main Engineering. I also plan to make custom brightmaps for all Doom 64 textures and sprites where it makes sense for them to exist (like lit up computer monitors and when a Baron throws a fireball). I know BD64 made some that I might could use but they are kinda big, scaled down when loaded I'd assume. I will make my own though so I can be sure everything will work together.

[Unholypimpin]

My attempt at making a doom64 wad. Its just one finished map atm

Ya lighting isnt as good as it would be in doom64ex but eh its okay.

[Nevander]

Unholypimpin said:

My attempt at making a doom64 wad. Its just one finished map atm

Ya lighting isnt as good as it would be in doom64ex but eh its okay.

I mean it looks great to me. Doom 64 EX just has fancy ways of lighting different parts of the sector separately. Gives you more freedom and nice effects yea, but a sector that looks red is still a red lit sector. They just gave it a fade to black to the top, or it's black and it fades to red. Close enough for me considering we are not in EX.

[Unholypimpin]

I did a little experiment and you indeed can attempt to make lighting very close to doom64 in gzdoom.


This was just a quick attempt however you could make the gradient much smoother with more tweaking. Only problem is you would have to make around 10 dummy light sectors per actual sector that wasnt the same height to make this effect possible. Eventually you could have a map with 1000+ sectors that are just lighting dummies alone.

[Guest DILDOMASTER666]

Unholypimpin said:

I did a little experiment and you indeed can attempt to make lighting very close to doom64 in gzdoom.

I said:

glowing flats

[Nevander]

Here, have some screenshots of progress. One reason, for proof that this project is real, another because who doesn't like screenshots?



Left one is from The Terraformer, where you can see custom brightmaps in effect for the flickering SMON texture lights (and yes, those ceiling light textures do scroll just like in Doom 64). Right one is from the outside area of Holding Area, demonstrating the heavy use of 3D floors to accurately reproduce classic Doom 64 "fake" 3D scenes. In my project, you can use "fly" console command and actually walk on top of these structures! There's also a good view of usage of a skybox to create a starry sky with much more depth.

[MinerOfWorlds]

Nevander said:

Here, have some screenshots of progress. One reason, for proof that this project is real, another because who doesn't like screenshots?

http://i.imgur.com/hB8NlO2.jpg http://i.imgur.com/4feuPM3.jpg

Left one is from The Terraformer, where you can see custom brightmaps in effect for the flickering SMON texture lights (and yes, those ceiling light textures do scroll just like in Doom 64). Right one is from the outside area of Holding Area, demonstrating the heavy use of 3D floors to accurately reproduce classic Doom 64 "fake" 3D scenes. In my project, you can use "fly" console command and actually walk on top of these structures! There's also a good view of usage of a skybox to create a starry sky with much more depth.

Looks great! i can't wait to play this.

[Prologue-9]

@Nevander, you've got me hype for this. As interesting as BD64 was, it left a lot of the problems that GZDoom64 had intact (like its abysmal monster placement decisions.) I also love NRFTL and the ties between 64 and '16, so this is all kinds of up my alley.

[everennui]

Unholypimpin said:

I did a little experiment and you indeed can attempt to make lighting very close to doom64 in gzdoom.
http://i.imgur.com/TvoMKUI.png

This was just a quick attempt however you could make the gradient much smoother with more tweaking. Only problem is you would have to make around 10 dummy light sectors per actual sector that wasnt the same height to make this effect possible. Eventually you could have a map with 1000+ sectors that are just lighting dummies alone.

Could you just use as many as your gradient uses and then reference the existing dummy sector in arrays?

[Nevander]

Some mini-hype: I've come up with a few names for some levels for my 9-map fan expansion. Whatcha think?

- Aftermath (first map after defeating Mother Demon)
- Shadow Realm (fourth map, leads to secret level for the episode)
- Death Dance (sixth map, be thinking "Tricks and Traps" in Doom 64 type of map) totally unrelated but that's a kick ass Sevendust song, check it out :)
- Aztec (the secret map, based on the beta screenshot)

and I couldn't resist... the final level of the episode is called:

- Doomslayer

*goosebumps*

[JohnnyTheWolf]

Is everybody naked in the Shadow Realm?

[MinerOfWorlds]

Nevander said:

Some mini-hype: I've come up with a few names for some levels for my 9-map fan expansion. Whatcha think?

- Aftermath (first map after defeating Mother Demon)
- Shadow Realm (fourth map, leads to secret level for the episode)
- Death Dance (sixth map, be thinking "Tricks and Traps" in Doom 64 type of map) totally unrelated but that's a kick ass Sevendust song, check it out :)
- Aztec (the secret map, based on the beta screenshot)

and I couldn't resist... the final level of the episode is called:

- Doomslayer

*goosebumps*

They sound good.

Nevander said:

http://i.imgur.com/hB8NlO2.jpg http://i.imgur.com/4feuPM3.jpg

The chain gun looks weird do you have forced aspect ratio?

[Nevander]

MinerOfWorlds said:

The chain gun looks weird do you have forced aspect ratio?

All the sprites are normal, aspect ratio is set to 4:3 during my testing (1024x768) resolution.

[HavoX]

Nevander said:

and I couldn't resist... the final level of the episode is called:

- Doomslayer

I think I've heard of this name somewhere... :P

[Unholypimpin]

@Nevander Does this wad of yours have its own thread yet?

[Nevander]

No, not yet. I want to get a good amount of the maps done first. Probably when all the techbase maps are done. Speaking of which, I am up to Tech Center now. That switch puzzle leading to Outpost Omega was fun to script. :) Works just like Doom 64 too.

[Unholypimpin]

wait so your building all the doom64 maps from scratch?

[HexenMapper]

Why not build these in Doom64EX? Its just as easy to map for as zdoom / gzdoom, and faithfully reproduces the N64 version. You could even copy paste the maps over if you're interested and/or dont want to start from scratch. The 6 part colored lighting and in particular lighting gradients are pretty important for capturing doom64's aesthetic. Being able to seamlessly blend from one color to another from the floor to the ceiling in a sector is an excellent tool for both ambiance and detailing.

The scripting may be handled slightly differently, but its still very powerful.

I've done 7 maps so far for Doom64EX, less of a sequel, but more of an alternate episode - following another marine located on Earth:
https://www.doomworld.com/vb/wads-mods/89559-earth-2-maps-for-doom64ex/

[Nevander]

Unholypimpin said:

wait so your building all the doom64 maps from scratch?

Essentially, yes. Each map takes quite a bit of fixing first since specials, line actions, sector specials, colored lighting, and everything else doesn't carry over. At least having made a custom texture pack using identical texture names, the only texture work I even have to touch is alignment fixes and making custom composite switches (since Doom 64 was able to place a switch on any texture).

HexenMapper said:

Why not build these in Doom64EX?

The goal of my project is to first make a more respectable version of Doom 64 for GZDoom. There's an older one called GZDoom64 but it's a bit of a mess. Brutal Doom 64 forked off that and improved a lot already, but it's still not quite accurate to Doom 64. It can't be perfect, but it's something.

Also another reason is my computer has problems with EX for some reason. I get this horrendous mouse stuttering issue that remains unsolvable for me. That and the sound gets really crackly when a lot is going on. Probably also just my problem. :(

[MinerOfWorlds]

HexenMapper said:

Why not build these in Doom64EX?

He's not making the beta maps right now.

[Nevander]

Tech Center is super easy to fix compared to all the maps before it, there's basically nothing on it. No puzzles or complicated actions. I think the most impressive stuff is very early on, like the way the rooms change in Main Engineering or the puzzle stuff like the platforms leading to Outpost Omega. I think the next major complicated thing is the Plasma Rifle puzzle in Final Outpost and then after that probably In the Void, that map is going to be like 60% 3D floors.

[Nrg01]

Nevander said:

Also another reason is my computer has problems with EX for some reason. I get this horrendous mouse stuttering issue that remains unsolvable for me. That and the sound gets really crackly when a lot is going on. Probably also just my problem. :(

Whew! Glad I'm not the only one with a computer that has issues with Doom64EX. That thing can crash anytime I'm using it, making me constantly save, it's annoying.

[MinerOfWorlds]

Nrg01 said:

Whew! Glad I'm not the only one with a computer that has issues with Doom64EX. That thing can crash anytime I'm using it, making me constantly save, it's annoying.

Can someone report this to Kaiser?