Does anyone find Tech Base maps boring?

[Budoka]

I'm not a fan of maps that ape the IWAD aesthetics in general, whether techbase, urban area, hell or even Plutonia. But I'll deal with if is the gameplay is worth my time.

[CFWMagic]

I am actually the complete opposite. I hate all the maps which are NOT tech-base. Particular hatred is reserved for abstract maps. There are two main reasons for that:

1. I'm ADHD. Meaning, anything which isn't straightforward, and even a little bit mazy, is going to be near impossible for me to process and pay attention to. The perfect example of this would be Plutonia 2. Map 16 of which, I spent 30 minutes at, unable to beat. Every monster was dead but I couldn't finish the map. Why? Because it was a maze where I had no idea which switch did what. I literally could not open up the exit. And infuriated as I was, I ragequit.

2. I'm colorblind. And this means that maps which have a lot of green in them, make imps completely invisible to me. The biggest offender on this is, again, Plutonia 2. But there's nothing that fills me with more rage than an imp that is literally in front of me, and I can not see it, and then it just -fast spams me with fireballs to death.

I understand why 'normal' players would get bored of techbase/city levels. But if it was up to me? There would be nothing BUT techbase/city levels.

[Lucius Wooding]

I mean half the textures in the game are catered to techbase and most of the most acclaimed levels in the original are techbase. The game had 2 real themes: Sci Fi and Hellish Fantasy. All the realistic stuff and city levels and whatnot came around later. Of course most of the fan made levels would build around the original games since the assets fit that style; everything else is experimentation. This includes even the city levels from Doom 2 IMO, even though it's a canonical theme it's something Sandy came up with as an alternative use of the stock textures. You'll never convince me that it was intended to have an outdoor cityscape, the texture set would be a lot different if such were the case. Personally although I like the creativity of the idea, I almost never like city levels in terms of gameplay.

 

If we're airing hot takes, I think any derivative wad based on the IWADs can be considered boring by the same logic. They build around references to the original games, using the same kinds of aesthetics and secrets and often similar combat. However if they're well done, I still enjoy them. They're boring in the same way that chicken soup is boring; it's not anything new or exciting but it's a comfort food I go back to from time to time. Not everything has to be incredibly original, and often the most creative stuff can be unrefined or is panned by much of the community because they're not used to it. Also not everyone has it in them to make custom assets or make some new implementation of the stock textures that's never been done; it's foolish to expect otherwise. 

[E1M10]

I think the tech base / Phobos aesthetic is brilliant. SKY1 combos perfectly with the gray green tech stuff. Surreal, gloomy, lonely, kind of “liminal space” as someone else said.

[Somniac]

I find that while techbase fatigue may be real, I still love a good techbase. There are a fair few distinct flavours of techbase: E1, E2, Starport, TNT, brick/wood base if we're talking purely aesthetics and just IWAD styled. That's before we get to the myriad flavours of the style that have emerged in PWADs over the years. I'm a sucker for the "dark techbase" Quake II inspired look a la The Darkening E2, and that's just one example of that style. Something about it just works perfectly in Doom. Its familiar, comfortable, and really quite versatile. 

[Dubbag]

no they're my favorite

[Codename_Delta]

depends, really.

 

if it's an eviltech techbase then fuck it.

 

But if it's a shores of hell base than I'll fucking jump on that shit.

[Captain POLAND]

It depends on the individual level. But I wouldn't want to play dozens of them in a row with no variety.

 

 

[roadworx]

i actually quite like techbase maps, e s p e c i a l l y  ones that make heavy usage of either brick textures or COMPBLU. not entirely sure why, i just absolutely adore it.

 

8 hours ago, CFWMagic said:

I am actually the complete opposite. I hate all the maps which are NOT tech-base. Particular hatred is reserved for abstract maps. There are two main reasons for that:

1. I'm ADHD. Meaning, anything which isn't straightforward, and even a little bit mazy, is going to be near impossible for me to process and pay attention to. The perfect example of this would be Plutonia 2. Map 16 of which, I spent 30 minutes at, unable to beat. Every monster was dead but I couldn't finish the map. Why? Because it was a maze where I had no idea which switch did what. I literally could not open up the exit. And infuriated as I was, I ragequit.

2. I'm colorblind. And this means that maps which have a lot of green in them, make imps completely invisible to me. The biggest offender on this is, again, Plutonia 2. But there's nothing that fills me with more rage than an imp that is literally in front of me, and I can not see it, and then it just -fast spams me with fireballs to death.

I understand why 'normal' players would get bored of techbase/city levels. But if it was up to me? There would be nothing BUT techbase/city levels.

okay, so...i'm confused by this. first of all, expansive, winding layouts aren't exclusive to non-techbase maps. you can look at the vrack series for a prime example of a techbase with a massive layout, and revolution for a wad with plenty of easy-to-follow maps without techbase theming. there's really not much of a correlation between that theme and layout other than that many wads tend to start you out in techbases near the beginning of the map, meaning that they're typically smaller

 

secondly, idk if you're newish to doom or not, but in my experience as someone who also has adhd, the more custom wads i played (and after having made a map myself), the easier it became for me to navigate the more confusing layouts. i definitely still get lost and don't know where i'm going half the time, but it's a far cry from how bad i used to be at finding my way through abstract layouts. it's likely that you just need more time in order to adjust to abstract layouts, because eventually you're gonna start recognizing certain elements of maps that'll clue you in to where you're meant to be going (if they're properly signposted, that is)

 

third...you say you don't like confusing layouts, but you somehow manage to love city levels? wat

[CFWMagic]

30 minutes ago, roadworx said:

i actually quite like techbase maps, e s p e c i a l l y  ones that make heavy usage of either brick textures or COMPBLU. not entirely sure why, i just absolutely adore it.

 

okay, so...i'm confused by this. first of all, expansive, winding layouts aren't exclusive to non-techbase maps. you can look at the vrack series for a prime example of a techbase with a massive layout, and revolution for a wad with plenty of easy-to-follow maps without techbase theming. there's really not much of a correlation between that theme and layout other than that many wads tend to start you out in techbases near the beginning of the map, meaning that they're typically smaller

 

secondly, idk if you're newish to doom or not, but in my experience as someone who also has adhd, the more custom wads i played (and after having made a map myself), the easier it became for me to navigate the more confusing layouts. i definitely still get lost and don't know where i'm going half the time, but it's a far cry from how bad i used to be at finding my way through abstract layouts. it's likely that you just need more time in order to adjust to abstract layouts, because eventually you're gonna start recognizing certain elements of maps that'll clue you in to where you're meant to be going (if they're properly signposted, that is)

 

third...you say you don't like confusing layouts, but you somehow manage to love city levels? wat

EDIT:

(Deleted. Because I realized I'd better not respond to bait lest I sink to it's level)

Edited November 25, 2022 by CFWMagic

[roadworx]

17 minutes ago, CFWMagic said:

Yup. You heard me right. Winding layouts aren't exclusive to non-techbase, but they're the ones most confusing in my own experience. PL2 is exclusively non-techbase. And it's impossible to navigate, at all. It took me 3 months to UV-Fast it because of it. Conversely BTSX-E1 is techbase exclusive. And it took me a single day to UV-Fast the entire wad. BTSX-E2 is non techbase. And I got lost in it, the same as plutonia. TNT has lots of techbase, and I didn't get lost in there. Plutonia is lots of temple and I got lost in there. JPCP has a lot of variety, and I mostly got lost in Nanka's maps ... Which aren't techbase.. Of course there are exceptions. But the rule of thumb I noticed, tech-base levels tend to be restrained. Non techbase, tend not to be.

in that case, i suppose it's understandable that you find them more confusing. either way, there's plenty of techbase maps out there that you probably wouldn't find confusing; i recommend the techbase maps within bourgoise dm and going down, as both primarily have small maps that are fairly difficult to get lost in.

 

Just now, CFWMagic said:

Second, About 20 years of doom at this point. So yes, I'm very green at it. Alas, I didn't start in 1993. Thankyou for being condescending to me, oldtimer! I'm sure that because it works for you, it works for everybody else, right? You're the only person that matters in the whole wide world. In fact, I'm surprised this thread is still going. You responded! No point in continuing the conversation! Sarcasm aside, Plutonia 2 doesn't become any less bad no matter how many times I play it. Maybe you missed the colorblind part of my post, but non-techbase levels are not only confusing, but completely invisible to me.

bruh, the only person being condescending is you. actually, i'd go as far as to say that you're just straight-up being an asshole.

 

i've only been playing the game for 9 years in my case, so i'm not an "oldtimer" like you seem to make me out to be (not that being a doom veteran would somehow make me better than you?). i was just trying to share what personally worked for me as a way to possibly help someone with similar circumstances overcome their struggles. in fact, i even gave indicators that it may just be something that only worked for me, with things like "in my experience" and "likely". that's meant to clue you into the fact that it's something that worked for me, but may not work for everyone else. there's no need to be a dick about it.

 

and no, i didn't miss the colorblind part. it's just that techbases that make heavy usage of TEKGREN aren't exactly uncommon, so i'm not really sure why that'd matter

 

13 minutes ago, CFWMagic said:

Yep. You heard me right. Doom 2 downtown specifically is very easy to remember. Strafe left off the teleporter. Then back away from the teleporter next time. Anything that has a maze? Turn left-right-left-front-back-front-right-left-right-front-left-back-front-left the first time. Then turn left-back-front-left-right-back-right-back-front-left the second.

you obviously have a much better memory than i do, because i'm unable to remember something as long as that.

[CFWMagic]

57 minutes ago, roadworx said:

secondly, idk if you're newish to doom or not

8 minutes ago, roadworx said:

bruh, the only person being condescending is you. actually, i'd go as far as to say that you're just straight-up being an asshole.

Literally felt like:



If that was not the intention, then I apologize.

Either way, I don't want to talk to you ever again. Farewell.

[roadworx]

2 minutes ago, CFWMagic said:

Literally felt like:
-snip-
If that was not the intention, then I apologize.

Either way, I don't want to talk to you ever again. Farewell.

that...isn't even close to the intention of that? i was just curious, cuz i used to be really confused with layouts as well back when i was less experienced with the game. you srsly gotta chill tf out, man

[CFWMagic]

4 minutes ago, roadworx said:

you srsly gotta chill tf out, man

I am. I've even apologized. As said, if that was not the intention ... Then I apologize.

EDIT: It felt that way because of a combination of "You must be new to doom" while simultaneously telling me that in your experience, it's not the case and thus, I just need to play more maps which confuse me (which I did by forcing myself to UV-Fast PL2, and not only did it not help, it made me despise PL2 with extreme prejudice). I interpreted that as "lol no. It works for me, so you just a noob".

As said ... If that was not the intention, I apologize. Yet, as I've already mentioned, let us never talk to each other again. Let's stop the peanut posting right here and go our separate ways from here on out, please?

Edited November 25, 2022 by CFWMagic

[roadworx]

???

 

okay lol

[TheSlipgateStudios]

If it is well designed I won't get bored of the tech base map, but wads that consist of tech base maps only, yeah I might get bored halfway through.

[Caffeine Freak]

11 hours ago, Redneckerz said:

Was a really worthwhile bump aswell, heck yeah!

 

There's no more worthwhile a reason for reviving a six year old thread than having it locked within a day when members inexplicably start fighting. Fuck this thread, it deserved it. 

 

Anyway, tech base maps are generally fine by me. It really comes down to the skill of the mapper as opposed to the theme of the map. I like tech base maps that follow the formula of E1M7 ('Computer Station'): lots of focus on narrow, cramped spaces with tech detail, enemies popping up at close range, plenty of windowed vantage points that let you peer into parts of the level you can't access yet, and lots of finding yourself back in the same areas you previously visited by virtue of different paths. (I'm aware none of these traits are specifically limited to tech base maps, I just think tech base maps especially benefit from them.) An example of a WAD with a map that does this well would be map 12 ('Transduction') of TNT: Revilution.

[7Mahonin]

@CFWMagic, if you really don’t wish to hear from roadworx, then you’re best off blocking them. Though, I find that a bit silly seeing as it appears this was some sort of misunderstanding. Telling people to never speak to you again is a great way to eventually become lonely here with no one willing to engage in conversation, and it appears roadworx was trying to give you advice, not trying to one up you or belittle you for your opinion, more so sharing that they could somewhat relate to you as they have the same condition as you and had map suggestions for you.
 

This is the time of year many people have a lot of issues in their life to shift through. Let this misunderstanding fade and try to get along with each other, it could make a difference for you both. 
 

 

Anyways, tech bases can be enjoyable for sure. I get what others mean by when they feel like they’re playing it too safe with E1 style design, but I don’t mind as long as the combat is fun and somewhat believable. A tech base should feel like it was once highly guarded by grunts, so it may feel a bit off when there’s not so many former humans to deal with, but that’s about it as far as I go with gripes other than the design of the map itself which plays the biggest factor. 

Edited November 25, 2022 by 7Mahonin

[CFWMagic]

12 minutes ago, 7Mahonin said:

@CFWMagic, if you really don’t wish to hear from roadworx, then you’re best off blocking them. Though, I find that a bit silly seeing as it appears this was some sort of misunderstanding. Telling people to never speak to you again is a great way to eventually become lonely here with no one willing to engage in conversation, and it appears roadworx was trying to give you advice, not trying to one up you or belittle you for your opinion, more so sharing that they could somewhat relate to you as they have the same condition as you and had map suggestions for you.
 

This is the time of year many people have a lot of issues in their life to shift through. Let this misunderstanding fade and try to get along with each other, it could make a difference for you both. 
 

 

Anyways, tech bases can be enjoyable for sure. I get what others mean by when they feel like they’re playing it too safe with E1 style design, but I don’t mind as long as the combat is fun and somewhat believable. A tech base should feel like it was once highly guarded by grunts, so it may feel a bit off when there’s not so many former humans to deal with, but that’s about it as far as I go with gripes other than the design of the map itself which plays the biggest factor. 

I don't do that. If I can't handle their words, then it's a me problem. I won't silence their voice just because I don't like it. But you're right. In many more ways than you realize. I've grown accustomed to being lonely. Perhaps, it's even what I seek out. It's why it took me years to actually start posting instead of lurking. But this is not a conversation for doomworld. Being depressed and suicidal, being traumatized and snapping at just about everyone, it has nothing to do with doomworld. That's why I asked for the conversation to stop. Out of my own weakness.

Let sleeping dogs lie ... I get what I deserve. In the end ... Loneliness does become proud solitude. In the end, no matter how much pains one traverses, it's the smile in the face of adversity that counts.

Look at me ... This is exactly what I wanted to avoid. Going on a tangent because of my own issues ... Ironic, isn't it.

... Anyhow. Now that you mention it, hitscan and former humans are probably one of the reasons I do enjoy tech-bases so much. The chip damage can really be lethal in ways that projectiles can't. Nobody is invincible in the face of hitscan, unless there is cover. And even then. -fast can really switch things up. I suppose this is why -fast BTSX-E1 was so enjoyable to me.

Edited November 25, 2022 by CFWMagic

[Wavy]

Corrupted techbases > Regular techbases

[Sectorslayer]

It's clearly a matter of preference. And your preferences might very well change over time. ;-) I personally love a good tech base. What I don't like to see is flat layouts, door-after-door and improper texture work. Whether it's a tech base or hell map does not matter. Variation matters. Imagination matters.

 

Classic Doom is actually pretty abstract. Not like today's hyper-graphic-physics-realistic games. The maps work often like abstract paintings or narrative, evoking an idea of what the place is or could have been. I feel like the layout and construction contributes to that far more than hyper-detailing - although, it is impressive to look at.

These are the tools of the medium Classic Doom. It has the power to generate an atmosphere, inspire. And it's fun to blast through :-)

 

[PeterMoro]

NO. I'm just getting started :p

[Martin Howe]

13 hours ago, CFWMagic said:

I am actually the complete opposite. I hate all the maps which are NOT tech-base. Particular hatred is reserved for abstract maps. There are two main reasons for that:

1. I'm ADHD. Meaning, anything which isn't straightforward, and even a little bit mazy, is going to be near impossible for me to process and pay attention to. The perfect example of this would be Plutonia 2. Map 16 of which, I spent 30 minutes at, unable to beat. Every monster was dead but I couldn't finish the map. Why? Because it was a maze where I had no idea which switch did what. I literally could not open up the exit. And infuriated as I was, I ragequit.

I understand why 'normal' players would get bored of techbase/city levels. But if it was up to me? There would be nothing BUT techbase/city levels.

Sounds like me and Classic HeXen :) Being autistic rather than ADHD, I have the opposite problem; I can focus very easily, but often cannot figure out things that aren't given to me on a plate; I hate subtleties in maps. I also have the same issues with mazes, switches, and doors; but that is because short-term memory and getting overwhelmed with detail in real time is a common problem for autistic people.

 

I love techbases, but they can get boring if the mapper isn't skilled enough to add variety and open areas as well as tight corners; interactivity, such as computer consoles that do something when used, are a great way to avoid that, as long as it's (a) obvious that they do something and (b) obvious what they did.

 

City maps are OK if they are detailed to look like a real city, but that's a big effort to pull off and only a few manage it; abstract city maps just leave me cold.

 

Hell themed levels feel like a pointless slaughter with no interesting scenery to look at, so I don't bother with them. Partly because Hell themed levels in Doom don't match the classic idea of Hell; I'd expect a cavern full of volcanos, earthquakes, evil temples or chapels, and Raven, rather than Doom, styled monsters. I once actually did this myself, but the project got abandoned due to a big disaster in RL getting in the way :(

 

 

[InfernalMonsoon]

Not at all, personally I love techbase levels, the aesthetic and style allows for a lot of creativity in map design as I find that abstractness to really favour odd and interesting levels. While I would love to see people get out of their comfort zone and try their hand at hell maps and other themes, personally a good level is just a good level regardless of their theme.

[Nefelibeta]

The term "techbase" can be literally applied to a lot of things, half of Eviternity, a lot of skillsaw maps, a lot of Darkwave maps, even Criticality, Miasma, Mutabor etc... If there's a reason that people might hate techbase maps, it would be those boring ass maps that belong in 2000s.

 

 

 

 

So do I like techbase maps? Yeah.

[DeletedAccount]

On 11/24/2022 at 11:31 PM, 7Mahonin said:

Heck Yeah, let's revive a six year old thread.

Already did lol

 

[Gougaru]

Like everything else I still love them in moderation. Even if it's just the  nostalgia kicking in

[heliumlamb]

playing: playing a good map is the act of playing a good map

making: i tried making a few My First Techbases 6 years ago and it bored me to the point of not wanting to map for many years afterward. this has nothing to do with any textures or themes of texture, as well as any of the Many (Wonderful!) Techbases throughout Techbase History. i have not wanted to attempt Techbase Construction since.

in solidarty with Techbase

[Redneckerz]

2 hours ago, Heck Yeah said:

Already did lol

A mild word joke, but still missed.

 

Good to know the bump was intentional.

[DeletedAccount]

28 minutes ago, Redneckerz said:

A mild word joke, but still missed.

 

Good to know the bump was intentional.

Yeah.. thank you so much.

 

Idk abt the joke tho