Vanilla Bugs and Fixes

[Voros]

For phase 2:
Hardish map, longish time, fast paced, not intentional death

less hard, not very long, kinda fast paced, not intentional death

I'm pretty much against intentional deaths.

Just a suggestion, but more people maybe attracted if this was announced over at the MP/Zandronum forums, because why wouldn't people not want to lend a hand? That, and not many people visit the Freedoom forums.

[chungy]

I've said it before, let's not bother trying to update demos when it's not release time.

[Voros]

Exactly when is the release time, on an estimate? Other than "soon" or "when it'll be released" or "when it's ready"?

[Catoptromancy]

Freedoom1.wad is fully limit removing, excepting for the maps not yet committed.

Lots of updates in the first post. Fixing some vanilla issues because I feel like it.

[Teivman]

Catoptromancy said:

Freedoom1.wad is fully limit removing, excepting for the maps not yet committed.

Lots of updates in the first post. Fixing some vanilla issues because I feel like it.

i thought you guys were aiming for vanilla...

[Voros]

MrD!zone said:

i thought you guys were aiming for vanilla...

And you are absolutely correct. Limit removing is a good way to head into that direction without paying too much attention to the vanilla limits.

Although, Cato and Protox aka Xindage have done a fine job with the vanilla conversion. Some maps are limit-removing and Boom, but progress.

[Teivman]

Voros said:

And you are absolutely correct. Limit removing is a good way to head into that direction without paying too much attention to the vanilla limits.

Although, Cato and Protox aka Xindage have done a fine job with the vanilla conversion. Some maps are limit-removing and Boom, but progress.

okay.

[Catoptromancy]

The info and links in the first post are still getting updated frequently. Lots of screenshots for future reference.

Except for 3 limit removing maps, freedoom1.wad is also vanilla. Episode 3 and 4 are entirely vanilla, only a few minor visual glitches.

Random bug report: <cc_> on e1m6 I had a monster stuck behind a teleporter and who wouldn't spawn <cc_> that teleporter at the beginning in the overdrive room...the monsters spawn in e2m2 ?


MAP20: The island hell knight is now trapped on island and blocked from teleporter. Removed midtex lift.
http://www.geocities.ws/catodemos/freedoom/catoptromancy/map20_c8.wad
http://www.geocities.ws/catodemos/demos/freedoom/repo-demos/fd2-map20.lmp

MAP22: Better designed monster closet. Still testing/demoing, not a submission.
http://www.geocities.ws/catodemos/freedoom/catoptromancy/map22_c9.wad

MAP23: Remove linedef type 37 from sector. Couple boom things converted. Spider HOM gone.
http://www.geocities.ws/catodemos/freedoom/catoptromancy/map23_c1.wad
http://www.geocities.ws/catodemos/demos/freedoom/repo-demos/fd2-map23.lmp

[Voros]

The 3D lift should be a normal lift. In fact, Freedoom's README states not use tricks that exploit the software renderer, like 3D bridges.

[Catoptromancy]

Currently battling linedef type 37. It is a vanilla bug and can only be used a very specific way. MAP23 and MAP25 have same issue with it.

Actually map23 can probably be replaced. It has never been finished. Any suggestions from Jayextees maps?

[Graf Zahl]

I have a better idea for MAP23:

Remove the lava and use a non-changing type for that problem sector. Nobody will ever notice.

And clean out that corridor of zombies. That part really has been bothering me forever. I like the map as a whole but such a huge, mostly useless batch of monsters gives a bad impression.

[Voros]

While I like the concept of map23, the map itself feels like it's in the wrong slot. I don't get a hell-ish vibe from it. The new map24, JXT's map, Gives a hellish vibe while the old one didn't.

With some rextexturing and necessary edits, I'd say the map can stay.

[Graf Zahl]

Voros said:

While I like the concept of map23, the map itself feels like it's in the wrong slot. I don't get a hell-ish vibe from it. The new map24, JXT's map, Gives a hellish vibe while the old one didn't.

With some rextexturing and necessary edits, I'd say the map can stay.

About the wrong slot I agree, I think it should maybe switched with one of JXT's maps in the previous part, I found his style fits better in the 20's range.
(17, maybe? I think that feels a bit off in its spot. I think, moving 23 to 16, 16 to 17 and 17 to 23 makes everything a bit more consistent and 17 looks like it's easier to hell-ify than the current 23 if deemed necessary)

[Voros]

Running it through my head, it sounds like a relatively good idea. But the new map17 feels like a good successor for hawkwind's map17 (the old one), which I believe is a plus. Then there's the difficulty in map23 which feels a bit too much for an earlier slot.

Yes I'm aware that the new map17 is also pretty difficult in a way, but I consider it as the climax of the second episode of Phase 2, since it involves more straightforward, fast paced gameplay against lots of enemies at once, compared to the slower and usually puzzle-oriented pace found in the maps before it.

Make the current map23 into an underground facility made of flesh and rocks, not tech, and it'll be perfect :) not to mention it'll be fresh compared to the other maps

[Catoptromancy]

https://www.doomworld.com/vb/post/1117107

[Graf Zahl]

Voros said:

Yes I'm aware that the new map17 is also pretty difficult in a way, but I consider it as the climax of the second episode of Phase 2, since it involves more straightforward, fast paced gameplay against lots of enemies at once, compared to the slower and usually puzzle-oriented pace found in the maps before it.

... which is actually why I was suggesting it. MAP23 fits a lot better with the previous maps. It's not just the different gameplay but also that the style of the current MAP17 is jarringly different from the maps before and the maps immediately after, which is why this map should be relatively easy to move around.

As for difficulty, who dictates that the current MAP23 cannot be toned down a bit?

I think there needs to be a bit of map shuffling anyway to get this all into a smooth experience so jumping the gun on changing MAP23's style seems a bit premature. It's a nice tech map right now and there should be some spot where it fits better without investing actual work into making it fit the current slot.

[Voros]

Catoptromancy said:

https://www.doomworld.com/vb/post/1117107

Well if the author believes that it's a piece of crap, then I guess it can be moved to the attic. And idgames someday.

[Catoptromancy]

Someone did fix it sort of. It was greatly chopped down so it is much smaller. But a few areas are much better.

I think remaking the original would actually be better using good chunks from new version. Almost all its areas are indoors, so it can easily be vanilla.

I still kind of want to keep it, it just never feels finished.

[Voros]

If you think it still needs replacing, NC's map05 or SI's map05 could make good candidates. You can use the good parts of map23 and merge them with any of JXT's maps

[Catoptromancy]

Sounds like a plan. Will just make current MAP23 vanilla for now.

Once I collect last batch of maps, will make another submission thread.

[Catoptromancy]

Bad news and good news! No more demos until after release. Several maps on repo had nodes rebuilt, not going to redemo them.

Good news, testing will be much faster using save games instead of demos.

Renamed thread, rewrote first post. Still going to post screenshots of glitches and document issues.

EDIT> All maps tested. MAP11 is still being worked on. MAP25 is almost done, limit removing at least.

2 maps away from release.

[Catoptromancy]

MAP25: Limit Removing. Totally rearranged monster closets. Lots of boom functions converted to vanilla. Tested in chocorenderlimits with -nomonsters, and godmode to check spawns.
http://www.geocities.ws/catodemos/freedoom/catoptromancy/map25_c10.wad

[Graf Zahl]

This still contains quite a bit of Boom stuff. Nothing show-stopping I presume?

[Catoptromancy]

A bunch of boom stuff is ignored, some boom stuff that was ignored in choco is doing weird stuff without the control sectors. Just posted a new version after testing in prboom-plus. May need more updates, but seems good.

All maps need testing, not just in choco! Gzdoom, prboom-plus, eternity, are also important. Qzdoom and whatever else is new people are playing are also good testing ports.

[Graf Zahl]

So my test tool still lists the following:

1 x [174] S1 Teleport to another sector
1 x [195] SR Teleport to another sector
1 x [219] W1 Lower floor to match next neighboring floor
7 x [242] -- Transfer sector heights
25 x [255] -- Scroll Wall Using Sidedef Offsets
2 x [261] -- Transfer ceiling light level

The Hissy-secret is not accessible in non-Boom ports as it stands, because both of the teleport switches are related to it.
The 219-type has a dead tag and is not operational anyway and the scrollers are harmless but the deep water stuff is probably not that great to keep in.

[Catoptromancy]

heh
https://github.com/sirjuddington/SLADE/issues/660

With a little more effort I can clean up MAP25 much better. Back to work.

[Voros]

-players can get stuck on this ledge from map21, because of infinitely tall actors.


-what's this, a STARTAN texture in C3M8?

Now this is problematic.

-this item can only be retrieved safely from this route...

-but it can also be accessed from this route too.
Due to the nature of this section, the trigger lines aren't added in this route, this player can get stuck here with no way to go back.

[Catoptromancy]

http://www.geocities.ws/catodemos/freedoom/catoptromancy/map25_c10.wad

Really fixed up nice now. I think I got all the boom stuff out. Even fixed raising lava plats in exit room.

Actually it crashes gzdoom. I will godmode plow through all the maps with prboom-plus and gzdoom soon.

GZDoom bug list: MAP06, MAP25

Random bug/gameplay reports:

Spoiler

<AlexMax> Catoptromancy, map02 of freedoom 2 has locked doors that don't open unless you find the switches
<AlexMax> i find that sort of thing pretty non-obvious
<AlexMax> also, both dark underwater sections in map02 can be charitably described as horseshit
<AlexMax> the first one has a mob that activates BEFORE you jump down, so if you dilly dally you'll get mobbed
<AlexMax> the second one on the way to the yellow key - you just had no room to manuver in a small room with two invisible demons, complete bullshit
<AlexMax> MAP03 - the area by the red door, there is a half-open stuck door
<AlexMax> if you use the automap, there doesn't appear to be any hallway to that hallway - maybe make the far back line invisible or introduce a corner to suggest a continuing walkway?
<Catoptromancy> post in forums heh
<Catoptromancy> or i can copy and paste
<Catoptromancy> im just focused on making maps nilla at the moment
<Catoptromancy> or limit removing
<AlexMax> there's a spot in map04 where there is a staircase and then a lift - without freelook, imps can fire at you out-of-sight for free
<AlexMax> right after the blue door in map05 the fight with the monsters in the trench is very awkward and it's hard to see the stairs from the backside - also you can run off the cliff fast enough, hit your head on the bars, but you clip through
<AlexMax> also the exit portal in map05 is....a portal to hell, not a normal gate to the next level :P

[Graf Zahl]

Catoptromancy said:

http://www.geocities.ws/catodemos/freedoom/catoptromancy/map25_c10.wad

Really fixed up nice now. I think I got all the boom stuff out. Even fixed raising lava plats in exit room.

There's still two 242's, but none has a valid sector link (linedefs 3386 and 3390), plus a few wall scrollers (linedefs 5896, 5906, 6986, 616, 5033)

Catoptromancy said:

Actually it crashes gzdoom. I will godmode plow through all the maps with prboom-plus and gzdoom soon.

GZDoom bug list: MAP06, MAP25

Can you give any specifics? I just loaded the map and never experienced any crash. What do I have to do?


Overall, good that this deep water river is gone, that part was just painful to play due to low visibility.

[Catoptromancy]

Not really a gzdoom bug, but it does act differently. Crashes as map loads, 2 week old repo.

Removing 0-length line 1303
Map has 2 unused sidedefs


*** Fatal Error ***
!!! Failed to exec debug process
Segmentation fault

Also, Eureka has lots of error checking. Can find all those unpaired tags and unknown actions easy.
http://www.geocities.ws/catodemos/freedoom/catoptromancy/map25_c11.wad