Vanilla Bugs and Fixes

[Voros]

Most of the blood falls in map25 are now static.

Personally, I think making the blood sectors into damaging floors is a dick move. The number of fights present in this map tend to be against from low-medium tier monsters in large numbers to high tier monsters in cramped places. That alone presents a (difficult) challenge for anyone playing the map. The blood sectors shouldn't be damaging.

[Graf Zahl]

I always found this map one of the worst playing ones in Freedoom, it really needs quite a bit of gameplay tweaking. While some of the worst trouble spots are gone now, there's still too many that need addressing, not the least of which is how all the blood works.

[Catoptromancy]

This thread is run out of life. It's purpose has been served well. All maps are committed and on repo, cept for MAP11. This was only for vanilla compatibility.

First post in thread is basically final. All maps minus MAP11, are ready for release. All issues for further vanilla conversions are documented there.

There are lots of general gameplay and map bugs(not vanilla related) that are brought up, these should be sorted into another thread.

[Catoptromancy]

Thread lives again!

C1M5: Vanilla playtest version with doors propped open. There was an angle where player could look through 7 doors, so two small doors directly behind player start are disabled making it 5 doors. Long room near exit had to be walled up, still had to remove many details. Still some texture bugs, and hopefully no vpo.
http://www.geocities.ws/catodemos/freedoom/z0k/c1m5_c10_opendoors.wad

EDIT> Updated. Opened yet another door near start. Intentionally broke one very problematic door, but let it slightly open so player can see item. Area is mirrored stairs anyway and put visible item on other side.

EDIT> Still vpo. I scrapped a version that blocked those two big door behind player start. Reorganized that blue room back there, but it didnt look right. I still think those two mirrored staircases need to just be scrapped and that area remade. Can keep those two big door, but with a 90 degree turn into inner room.

Last EDIT> Going to go with older plan. Switch doors and computer panel. Can then put original stairs, just spread out entire area with original details.



We need people to help make multiplayer demos on IRC. I think demos are all that is left before release, besides a little testing.

[Catoptromancy]

I did it, Somehow. VPO is gone from start rooms. Still needs lots of touch ups, and new areas need to be detailed to match.

C1M5: Playtest edition, spread the mirrored staircases to change angles of doors.
http://www.geocities.ws/catodemos/freedoom/z0k/c1m5_c12_opendoors.wad

EDIT> Yet another update. Should be final open door test wad. I liked the broken door with item behind it, so kept it. Opening/approaching broken door from other side "fixes" door so it works normally.

Spoiler

[Catoptromancy]

The rare quad post!

Starting on C2M5 conversion. Just opened all the doors in editor so far. This may take awhile. If we are lucky it might be done in time for this release.

EDIT> Progress. Totally removed one door, there was another door very close by so it wasnt really mandatory. Blue key switch room's door was rotated, actually entire room was rotated so door wasnt overlooking large detailed area.

Trying to leave as many details as possible, and maintaining good gameplay...not 100% preserving gameplay. So shifting certain openings can allow much more detail to be saved.

[axdoomer]

I removed a Boom scrolling effect on a wall on C2M8. A wall was scrolling right, but vanilla Doom only supports scrolling left.


http://s000.tinyupload.com/index.php?file_id=00383673292615901864

[Catoptromancy]

Nice find! Running the Map Checker on Eureka will point out all the boom stuff in maps. Many maps still have boom stuff, but nothing map breaking with vanilla. The extra boom stuff will eventually be removed.

[Diabolución]

An inescapable sector (the exit platform / room, for example) should be tagged as secret for these maps without “official” secrets, such as MAP02. Or the MAP02's SSG platform as a proper secret sector.

So that any source port will report 100% for secrets. According to Vanilla and Chocolate Doom 0 secrets found of 0 secrets is 0% for secrets, while other ports report 100% so the player knows he didn't miss anything.

[Catoptromancy]

C2M5 update. Its coming along slowly. Here is map to explore in -nomonsters, all doors are open. Still lots of work to do.

http://www.geocities.ws/catodemos/freedoom/z0k/c2m5_c5_opendoors.wad

Old map, tons of HOM and VPO when doors are open.


Updated map. Room door faces a much more closed area, many details can be be kept. Another door in middle was entirely removed. There is still two nearby doors and easy enemies so gameplay is barely affected negatively. Actually makes better flow for DM.

[Diabolución]

Do you plan to keep MAP23, finally? It’s a fun map and I have noticed that two non–vanilla switches has been fixed and now they are triggered by simply walking over, what seems somewhat weird at first sight because there is no need of hitting the use key and the switch texture doesn’t change. Only that switch which rises that lift, or whatever is that, is a true switch. Unfortunately, there are still too many surfaces which scroll to the right and they look static in Chocolate Doom.

[Catoptromancy]

It is functional. I am focusing on vanilla compatibility at the moment. Eventually will make sure all maps have the boom things removed.

EDIT> Mapping block on C2M5. Need to figure out something major and obscure. Will fix C3M9 for now, has a bit of VPO.

[Catoptromancy]

Bump. Renamed title. VPO has nothing to with gameplay and offtopic in another thread.

[Diabolución]

Litrivin said:

Yes, just removing these two lamps is a more sensible choice. It is under 128 currently, the maximum of visplanes I have ever seen is 81, according to the IDRATE code of PrBoom-Plus (software renderer).

One question: I have noticed certain maps feature visplane overflows only when the player enters IDCLIP / IDSPISPOPD and goes to the void. Is this a problem or issue which should be fixed? I don't think so, just asking.

It isn’t enough. Even removing another two lamps, so that there is just one remaining, isn’t enough. Chocolate Doom still crashes if I open the opposite door. Once, I have got “Error: R_FindPlane: no more visplanes.” According to Killough, this means that the layout has to be simplified, yes or yes.

Lee Killough said:

A "no more visplanes" overflow occurs when the number of different visible
flats is simply too large (more than 128). This is a limit which can be
tested statically, simply based on the level's properties. This
is the kind of visplane overflow which cannot be fixed without changing
the level to reduce the number of different flats a player sees at any
one part of the map:

[Catoptromancy]

Have you checked this one? I closed door already, needs reopened.
http://www.geocities.ws/catodemos/freedoom/catoptromancy/map09_c3.wad

3 lighting from lamps removed. 2 ceiling lights in hall removed. Hell area simplified. AGM wall thing in hallway simplified, and blood spot in front of AGM sign. Skylight over green armor also simplified.

Map looks good in chocorenderlimits.

Also, I do not touch layout unless there is nothing left to simplify, usually. Can take hell area down even more, move those two computers to wall near hell area, remove computer/ceiling border in far room. None of those touch layout. Even a crate is 4 visplanes. That area really isnt that detailed.

[Diabolución]

No, I haven’t. It’s a more conservative and smarter choice to reduce visplanes.

Ok, I’m going to fix that little misalignment.

[Voros]

IMO, butchering should be kept at a minimum. This is just one area that causes Chocolate Doom to crash. Keep all the little details unrelated to the cause the way they are.

If it ain't broke, don't fix it.

BTW, Chocolate Doom crashes warping to map09 when using your pwad, Cato.

[Catoptromancy]

Voros said:

IMO, butchering should be kept at a minimum. This is just one area that causes Chocolate Doom to crash. Keep all the little details unrelated to the cause the way they are.

Everything in view is related.

Voros said:

BTW, Chocolate Doom crashes warping to map09 when using your pwad, Cato.

Forgot to rebuild nodes after closing door.

[Diabolución]

Catoptromancy said:

Forgot to rebuild nodes after closing door.

Be aware that sometimes the original linedef type for certain doors isn’t properly restored after testing the map. MAP23 is a good example. The secret which contains the first SSG should be like that Monster Condo’s secret, which closes forever after 30 seconds and it’s unopenable from outside.

[Catoptromancy]

Litrivin said:

Be aware that sometimes the original linedef type for certain doors isn’t properly restored after testing the map. MAP23 is a good example. The secret which contains the first SSG should be like that Monster Condo’s secret, which closes forever after 30 seconds and it’s unopenable from outside.

Unopenable timed secrets should be removed. Needed for coop and 100% explorers. Coop and DM support in MAP09 is also very basic. I had to tag doors from the back and closing traps needed to be reopened.

[Diabolución]

Yes, that makes sense.

By the way, there is another map without “official” secrets: MAP20. Anyway, this layout / slot combination seems to be an obvious clone / homage of Gotcha!, so perhaps it should replaced in the medium / long term.

[Graf Zahl]

While I can see some very basic inspiration, unlike the other maps (11, 18, 26) this is so vague that I'd consider it irrelevant. I just don't like the map as such, it feels a bit off stylistically
Of course removing it would mean the removal of yet another of the original maps, we will soon be down to none!

[Voros]

Litrivin said:

By the way, there is another map without “official” secrets: MAP20. Anyway, this layout / slot combination seems to be an obvious clone / homage of Gotcha!, so perhaps it should replaced in the medium / long term.

This was discussed before, and it's been decided to keep it in Freedoom, because it's original while having a few small homages to Doom 2 like the starting room. Nothing too big to make it ripoff.

I must be the only one worried about the E1M3 clone in C1M3.

[Diabolución]

Understood.

Well, that one is too obvious, for sure. The starting zone, these slime pits, the ambush to get the blue key, the secret zones, the secret exit... More or less, every map of Outpost Outbreak seems original, except por that one.

Edit: current version MAP09 of repository should be replaced with the “vanillified” version.

[Voros]

Chocolate Doom crashes here (the third door). Mind the stats shown. This could be fixed by say putting a teleporter here that leads to that room, no doors basically. It'll certainly make things more interesting.

[Catoptromancy]

Maybe possible and seems better to turn the doors at a 90 degree angle. Much like red key door already. There is wall directly behind door, instead of view of entire room.

[axdoomer]

Voros said:

http://i.imgur.com/61Umy0k.jpg

25 FPS? WTF? This is not Chocolate-Doom, is it Crispy or Chocorenderlimits?

[Diabolución]

axdoom1 said:

25 FPS? WTF?

Off–topic...

Spoiler

It’s PrBoom or PrBoom-Plus in software rendering mode (in OpenGL mode they show walls and flats instead of segs and visplanes, respectively) showing rendering stats, IDRATE code.

Regarding the 25 FPS, likely he is actually running the PrBoom-Plus app bundled with Doom Touch for Android. For this platform, unless you have a relatively recent and powerful smartphone, you won’t get stable 35 FPS. And Doom Touch is the less bad option, because playing doom(2).exe or boom.exe via DOSBox for Android is painfully slow, even with single digit frame rates.

[axdoomer]

Litrivin said:

Off–topic...

Spoiler

It’s PrBoom or PrBoom-Plus in software rendering mode (in OpenGL mode they show walls and flats instead of segs and visplanes, respectively) showing rendering stats, IDRATE code.

Regarding the 25 FPS, likely he is actually running the PrBoom-Plus app bundled with Doom Touch for Android. For this platform, unless you have a relatively recent and powerful smartphone, you won’t get stable 35 FPS. And Doom Touch is the less bad option, because playing doom(2).exe or boom.exe via DOSBox for Android is painfully slow, even with single digit frame rates.

Well... I'm not hijacking the thread to do a discussion about this. I'm just asking one question, because Chocolate-Doom has some framerate issues on some systems and this could have been a modified Chocolate-Doom. Thanks for telling me that PrBoom has such a feature, I got my answer.

[Diabolución]

I was saying that my post is off–topic—not yours—and, therefore, my reply is hidden by the spoiler tag.