Anyone else liked the original imp better?

[VGamingJunkie]

The problem is complaining seems to be all you do and about fairly trivial and even contradictory matters.

Also, you do realize you could easily find a shot of both monsters in similar lighting by simply using the model viewer don't you? It literally uses the same environmental conditions.

[Touchdown]

MetroidJunkie said:

The problem is complaining seems to be all you do and about fairly trivial and even contradictory matters.

Also, you do realize you could easily find a shot of both monsters in similar lighting by simply using the model viewer don't you? It literally uses the same environmental conditions.

I wouldn't say stylistic consistency is something not worth talking about. People just seem to be very eager to take criticism as bitching. If you just outright interpret everything as an attack and not as simply bringing up a point to discuss it's no wonder all you see is someone complaining all the time. I could literally spend hours gushing over what an absolutely amazing shooter foundation id has created in DOOM4 and actually considered making a thread about it. But in some ways it's more fun to talk about things that people disagree on. If only people spent more time sharing their thoughts and less complaining that I don't like certain things.

Also, contradictory matters? What?

As for the comparison, again, you're free to provide a screenshot of a Pinky on which it doesn't look like a toy in a realistic setting, unlike most of the other monsters. I can post what you're asking for but that's just nitpicking, it doesn't make any difference to me.

[VGamingJunkie]

I meant your complaints have contradicted each other, both complaining that it's not enough like Classic Doom and not enough like Doom 3. I'm not seeing the drastic increase in artstyle you're claiming, they just use different colors and the Cacodemon looks "drastically" different from the pinky by your reasoning.

[Trycon]

Pinky needs changed. Less spikes please.

[jazzmaster9]

Touchdown said:

Why is it no ok to criticize something I don't like about a game? It's a forum. For discussing stuff.

If you really wanted to make a change. You would discuss this on an official ID forums. All you do here is gonna come off as "Bitching" since we are not the Devs.

Maybe Email Hugo Martin about how much Doom sucks and maybe he might care.

I wonder what Doom 2016 Thread will Touchdown Crusade next.

[Touchdown]

MetroidJunkie said:

I meant your complaints have contradicted each other, both complaining that it's not enough like Classic Doom and not enough like Doom 3.

What? Where did you get that from? If anything I said that some monsters in DOOM4 are too much like the original sprites. I've never said they should be more like the originals.

jazzmaster9 said:

If you really wanted to make a change. You would discuss this on an official ID forums. All you do here is gonna come off as "Bitching" since we are not the Devs.

Maybe Email Hugo Martin about how much Doom sucks and maybe he might care.

I wonder what Doom 2016 Thread will Touchdown Crusade next.

If that's the conclusion you came to based on everything I said then there's nothing I can do for you.

[jazzmaster9]

Touchdown said:

If that's the conclusion you came to based on everything I said then there's nothing I can do for you.

No need to do anything for me. Keep your Crusading, you might change the DW Forums someday.

[DooM_RO]

The problem with the Pinky is that while the overall silhouette is faithful to the original, the design is a bit...overproduced? Its fangs and armor look a bit too chunky.

[igg]

Before playing Doom 2016 I also thought the new Pinky is the worst looking enemy because of it's purple/cartoonish look. But ingame the demon looks fine.

[MrSkeltal]

The enemy consistency in Doom 2016 looks fine to me. I'd assume it's the big glowy eyes in some of them that throws people off.

[Caffeine Freak]

Honestly, the only enemy that didn't seem to fit in the game at all to me was the Hell Guard. It was fine as a monster design, it just seemed like it belonged in a different game.

I'm pretty good with everything else, to me the rest of the monsters fit nicely, both in the context of a Doom game and the particular art style of this game. Since the Pinky seems to be the hot topic though, I'll just add that my initial impression upon seeing him was that he was too Zerg-like.

Also, I think one mostly overlooked aspect of this discussion is that many monster designs are enhanced by being placed against the correct environmental backdrop and the correct lighting. For instance, the Imp colors are enhanced by the moody red and orange lighting that's prevalent throughout the game, but he looks a bit less cool under the white/blue fluorescent lighting of levels like the Lazarus labs. Same goes for the Pinky. The Revenant looks pretty awesome in both of those settings, but a bit less so in the early hell area, which is more light brown/dull yellow.

[jazzmaster9]

Agreed with the Hell Guard. The design was really different from the rest of the Bestiary. It would almost fit a hack-n-slash fantasy game than an FPS.

[Touchdown]

DooM_RO said:

The problem with the Pinky is that while the overall silhouette is faithful to the original, the design is a bit...overproduced? Its fangs and armor look a bit too chunky.

It definitively has too much of modern-Blizzard feel. Something straight out of WarCraft or even Diablo3. They have a tendency to add all those bulky elements to their characters. Same with the aforementioned Hell Guard.

Here's a quick, crappy reinterpretation showing what it could look like with a simpler, eyeless design.

[VGamingJunkie]

Having literally no eyes doesn't look right, though, looks more like something gouged its eyes out.

[Chickensoup101]

I really wish they bring back the Zombie soldier guys... Shotgun dude and the Chaingunner with a modern look~

[Caffeine Freak]

Making the new Pinky eyeless would actually fit his behavior very well, but it wouldn't fit his visual design. The D3 Pinky was good without eyes because of the smoothness of the rest of his facial anatomy, and because of how odd he was overall; you got the impression that he was something of a very strange organism, what with no natural hind legs and a set of jaws protruding from a bloody orifice, like maybe he had to chew his way through to eat and breathe. It was almost like he was a product of botched evolution, with teeth and and a sense of smell and nothing else, and someone decided to make use of him by strapping him with legs.

The modern Pinky doesn't really look like a creature that shouldn't have eyes, partly because he doesn't fall into any of those categories.

Chickensoup101 said:

I really wish they bring back the Zombie soldier guys... Shotgun dude and the Chaingunner with a modern look~

VERY much agreed. They introduced a tactical element to D3 that was somewhat absent from the previous games.

[VGamingJunkie]

They sort of have a Shotgun Guy, the Security take on the Possessed Soldier with the shield is the only one of them that has a hitscan shotgun.

[DooM_RO]

I really liked the D3 Pinky. Very original.

[Caffeine Freak]

True, but he's limited to a short range.

Edit: that was meant for MetroidJunkie.

[MrSkeltal]

The Hell Guard were originally going to be more demonic if the concepts in the art book are anything to go by. They were probably changed for lore reasons.

[igg]

MrSkeltal said:

They were probably changed for lore reasons.

Can you name one or do you have an idea? The Hell Guard really doesn't fit in the game :-(

[RightField]

Didn't it say somewhere that the guardians were reworked leftovers from the old doom 4?

[MrSkeltal]

igg said:

Can you name one or do you have an idea? The Hell Guard really doesn't fit in the game :-(

The fact that the Guardians themselves are the worm things and the golems are basically Hell's version of a mech with a nondescript insignia on the front. I assumed they were corrupted Argent D'Nur tech or something stolen from another dimension since their aspect isn't 100% demonic compared to the rest of the enemies in the game. The earlier concepts had them as typical demons, so if id wanted to they could've gone with that but they didn't.

[DooM_RO]

I think the new Imp is the best enemy in the game both visually and gameplay-wise. A bit too OP on Ultra Nightmare though.

[DooM_RO]

Touchdown said:

It definitively has too much of modern-Blizzard feel. Something straight out of WarCraft or even Diablo3. They have a tendency to add all those bulky elements to their characters. Same with the aforementioned Hell Guard.

Here's a quick, crappy reinterpretation showing what it could look like with a simpler, eyeless design.

http://i.imgur.com/nPFCB4Vl.jpg

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7wz-Ksren6Q&t=430s

Interesting tidbit about the creation of the Pinky at 14:45

[ATP2555]

Unrelated, but I liked the old Stinky Pinky.

Also, I'm not sure you can call a 3D character model cartoony when comparing it to a 2D sprite.

[drokk]

the pinky looks fine but how about some doom1 style hell knights?

[Sig]

drokk said:

the pinky looks fine but how about some doom1 style hell knights?

Redundant. They were just mini barons back when.

[drokk]

Sig said:

Redundant. They were just mini barons back when.

there's room to distinguish it from current baron though

[Quagsire]

40oz said:

The new one is a little too acrobatic for my tastes. Imps are tough but they're slow and stupid. Also the player death sequence is pretty brutal for such a simple throwaway monster that's used all the time.

Who says imps were meant to be slow? Where did this come from? They've always been on the swift but not too swift side. Keep in mind that they were only like that in the original because of limitations in terms of technology. They made them acrobatic in DOOM 3 as well.