Doom 64 for Doom II - v1.4 released, /idgames link is up

[damo]

On 31/12/2017 at 10:07 PM, Mechadon said:

This one is intentional I believe.  The idea is that the player can chicken out if they can't get all three keys, and just head on to MAP16.  Otherwise they get to play MAP32 if they can get all of the keys.

Ah ok, I understand. It would be nice in multiplayer/coop if the players had to get the keys, as someone will most likely just run into the exit in a multiplayer game, especially if they are unfamiliar with the map. But this is only my opinion, I'm not asking for the map or behaviour to change.

[Da Werecat]

27 minutes ago, damo2k said:

The thing is, we don't seem to know how to raise the bridge, or it simply isn't working for us. A good few of us played this map a few times and no-one could figure out how to get the blue key. Maybe its only not working in zdaemon.

There's a computer maze near the blue door. In one of the side rooms there should be a switch that opens a door in the same room, and there's another switch that will raise the bridge.

 

Probably unrelated, but there's an annoying feature in the original map: once you pick up the key the bridge will lower again, and a soul sphere will be revealed. If you rush to hop off the platform you won't be able to get back and pick up the sphere.

 

I replicated it, but with a walkover line action. Since it's less reliable, I made the bridge repeatable. Then, recently, I forgot about the reason why I made it repeatable, and made it one-shot again, because running back and forth felt cheap. I think I'll need to rethink that again.

 

But, again, I don't think it's related. Someone would probably notice.

 

36 minutes ago, damo2k said:

As for the yellow key on the other map. The little rectangle block/area that the yellow key is contained in. The player can get stuck inside there, especially if other players are mashing the two switches that lowers/raises it.

I added a switch to open the bars from the inside. If it's not enough, I'm not sure what's happening.

[damo]

10 minutes ago, Da Werecat said:

There's a computer maze near the blue door. In one of the side rooms there should be a switch that opens a door in the same room, and there's another switch that will raise the bridge.

 

Probably unrelated, but there's an annoying feature in the original map: once you pick up the key the bridge will lower again, and a soul sphere will be revealed. If you rush to hop off the platform you won't be able to get back and pick up the sphere.

 

I replicated it, but with a walkover line action. Since it's less reliable, I made the bridge repeatable. Then, recently, I forgot about the reason why I made it repeatable, and made it one-shot again, because running back and forth felt cheap. I think I'll need to rethink that again.

 

But, again, I don't think it's related. Someone would probably notice.

 

Cool thanks, I will just check if I can find that. I'm surprised none of us found that.

 

I wonder if it would be more suitable if it is repeatable for coop, otherwise only 1 person may get the key?

 

 

Edited January 2, 2018 by damo2k

[Da Werecat]

If it's this harsh in coop then of course. I was under the impression that all players get the keys simultaneously and they persist after respawning.

[damo]

13 minutes ago, Da Werecat said:

If it's this harsh in coop then of course. I was under the impression that all players get the keys simultaneously and they persist after respawning.

In zdaemon, if a player picks up a key, only that player gets the key. The other players will to pick up the key themselves. Also keeping a key after respawning is a toggle-able options. It can be disabled.

Edited January 2, 2018 by damo2k

[Mechadon]

12 hours ago, damo2k said:

Ah ok, I understand. It would be nice in multiplayer/coop if the players had to get the keys, as someone will most likely just run into the exit in a multiplayer game, especially if they are unfamiliar with the map. But this is only my opinion, I'm not asking for the map or behaviour to change.

I can't think of a way to do this (otherwise it would be something to consider).  If you or someone knows of a way this is possible in vanilla, let me know.  Otherwise I guess its just one of those silly things that COOP players will have to deal with :P

[Da Werecat]

Well, could always block the regular exit with MP-only torches or something along these lines. Unlike MAP01 this might actually work.

[Mechadon]

Oh yea, that would definitely work!  It's probably not a bad idea to implement this for COOP since I assume the vast majority of players will want to play the map all the way through.

[Mechadon]

I've got a few more map updates to share here, and one of them is a pretty big update.  I haven't been able to get in touch with Z86 so I've been making fixes and tweaks to Tech Center.  Yesterday I decided to visually overhaul the map since some parts of it were a little messy and bland (and while I was at it I tweaked parts of the gameplay).  Not that I needed to attach my name to yet another map...but oh well :P.  Here are some quick screenshots:

 

 

Tech Center v4

 

I rebuilt some areas, spruced up the lighting and detail in other areas, and made some minor alterations to the gameplay.  There should be a bit less Hell Knight meat to cut through so hopefully that's a positive change.  And I also attempted to inject some context to the two switch that open up the YK and RK areas.  Music was also chosen (that'll be in the next build).

 

Here are two more updated maps; both are mostly minor updates (Dark Citadel got a tweak so that the courtyard is less annoying to jump into when the monster are awake).

 

Pitfalls v8

Dark Citadel v7

 

Just as a reminder guys - if you want an updated version of your map in the next build, get it to me by this Friday.  Also I need music for some maps still; if you haven't chosen a track for you map, please do so or let me know and I'll chose one for you.

Edited January 3, 2018 by Mechadon

[OliveTree]

in MAP03, right at the start. you can just slide past the door thingies without having to press the switch. Its a small gripe, to be sure, but I thought I'd point it out.

[Mechadon]

That's probably something that's really not worth addressing just because of how difficult it is for the average player to pull off (at least in vanilla, might be easier in other ports).  It also doesn't really break progression (unless you forget to grab the SSG at the start...in which case I would guess players that could glide out could just glide back in ).  I appreciate the report all the same though!  I made a note of it in the tracker just to be thorough.

[OliveTree]

its very easy. There's just like a crawl space between the wall and the gate thingy, i literally just waltzed through. It's really not a big problem but it makes the map feel less polished.

[Nevander]

5 hours ago, Mechadon said:

(at least in vanilla, might be easier in other ports)

I always felt like glides were easier in vanilla and Chocolate Doom. I suck ass at doing them in GZDoom, so much so I started to believe they were actually seriously harder to do on that engine.

[Dexiaz]

"Asked" the Artificial neural network "Ostagram" to recreate the MotherDemon sprite based on Vanilla Demon sprite. For lulz, of course. Well...

 

 

My eyes...I mean, the quality. Anyway, it looks interesting.

[Da Werecat]

WTF it actually tried to create arm and neck muscles, not unsuccessfully. Skynet is upon us.

[Wereknight]

47 minutes ago, DeXiaZ said:

"Asked" the Artificial neural network "Ostagram" to recreate the MotherDemon sprite based on Vanilla Demon sprite. For lulz, of course. Well...

 

 

My eyes...I mean, the quality. Anyway, it looks interesting.

That's why I never will be sure in machines as great digital artists, they can't do man's artwork properly.

 

Finalize Motherdemon sprites?  Cage might be able to do this.

urmhnnnn... isn't he a bit busy now?

Edited January 4, 2018 by CWolf

[Dexiaz]

21 minutes ago, CWolf said:

That's why I never will be sure in machines as great digital artists, they can't do man's artwork properly.

They are only the helpers. Like Rig-o-Matic for 3d modeling. NEVER rig 3d models with rig-o-matic ONLY. Always fix it by yourself. But Rig-o-matic saves o lot of time, it's useful as step 1.

 

That's why I've used ANN here.

[_bruce_]

Looks pretty cool.

[Cage]

6 hours ago, CWolf said:

urmhnnnn... isn't he a bit busy now?

I'm always busy! That also means I'm never bored :)

 

I'll try to make some time to at least make an attempt, since I have an idea how to make it in a way that would take less time and still should look pretty good. I'm really tempted to do this, since barely any project has any proper custom monster graphics ( which incites a bit of a "hold my beer" reaction in me), plus it's been a while since I contributed to anything Doom related that isn't Supplice - it's just like that small D2D64 texture pack that happened a while ago, I just felt like making something :)

[_bruce_]

-same floor texture issue in Map21 stemmed from a sector lowered into the floor... no idea why(done)

-changed lighting in Map24, as pointed out by "Da Werecat", and it was a change for the better(done)

[Mechadon]

16 hours ago, EtherBot said:

its very easy. There's just like a crawl space between the wall and the gate thingy, i literally just waltzed through. It's really not a big problem but it makes the map feel less polished.

I don't know a whole lot about speedrunning tricks like this, but I knew that gap would be glide-able from the start.  All I have to go on is my own play experience, but I had to really go out of my way to squeeze through the gap (testing in Chocolate Doom btw).  If its really easy for the average player to do, then I will definitely address it.  I'll have to try it out in a few other ports to see if it makes a difference.  Could you tell me what port you were using?

 

@DeXiaZ That is kind of impressive!  It definitely created something that could be passable as a vanilla Doom monsters (sort of a hybrid between the Motherdemon and a Baron).  Very creepy!

 

@_bruce_ Thanks for the update!

 

[Nevander]

6 hours ago, Cage said:

I'm really tempted to do this, since barely any project has any proper custom monster graphics ( which incites a bit of a "hold my beer" reaction in me)

We'd be happy to hold your beer for as long as you'd like to pull off something like this.

[Mechadon]

Just a heads-up guys.  I'm looking to release build v7 sometime tomorrow.  So if you have map updates that you would like to get in this build, get them to me asap!

 

Also I have even more map updates to dump.  Obviously these will be in the upcoming build, so you can just check them out there.

 

Staging Area v4

In The Void v3

Outpost Omega v4

[damo]

21 minutes ago, Mechadon said:

Just a heads-up guys.  I'm looking to release build v7 sometime tomorrow.  So if you have map updates that you would like to get in this build, get them to me asap!

 

Also I have even more map updates to dump.  Obviously these will be in the upcoming build, so you can just check them out there.

 

Staging Area v4

In The Void v3

Outpost Omega v4

We will bang through it in zdaemon again!

[Da Werecat]

Unfortunately, I got caught up in other things, so none of my planned updates will be ready in time.

[Mechadon]

Ok, here's test build version 7!  And a small~ish update to the resource wad to go along with it.

 

D64D2 Build V7 [4.1M] (Changelog) This is now out of date, see this post for the updated build.

D64D2 Resource V7 [792K]

 

There's lots of new and updated stuff to check out in this build.  As usual you can skim the changelog to see what's new.  Much of this stuff was already released in the previous resource wad update, like the new graphics and decorate work.  There are quite a few map updates and some other additions and changes though.

 

Anyways, as usual, please let me know if there are any major bugs in this release.  I can get a fixed version up asap if so!

 

@damo2k Hey just to let you know, some but not all of the COOP-related issues are addressed in this build.  I fixed the MAP01 exit issue so that shouldn't be a problem now.  But MAP31 doesn't have blocking objects in front of the easy exit yet, so keep that in mind.

 

@Da Werecat No problem!  I think another build will get dropped fairly shortly after this one if we get more map updates in soon.  Maybe within another week depending on how much gets added/changed.

Edited January 10, 2018 by Mechadon
build updated

[Gez]

On jeudi 4 janvier 2018 at 10:20 AM, DeXiaZ said:

"Asked" the Artificial neural network "Ostagram" to recreate the MotherDemon sprite based on Vanilla Demon sprite. For lulz, of course. Well...

 

 

My eyes...I mean, the quality. Anyway, it looks interesting.

Better than a bowl of spaghetti IMO.

[damo]

I haven't looked at this yet, but I just used rhinoduck's tnsutil to take a quick look at the coop starts:

./tnswutil -c coopstarts -w D64D2_build_v7.wad
---MAP01 1 1 1 1
---MAP02 10 1 1 1
---MAP03 1 1 1 1
---MAP04 1 1 1 1
---MAP05 1 1 1 1
---MAP06 1 1 1 1
---MAP07 1 1 1 1
---MAP08 4 3 0 0
---MAP09 1 1 1 1
---MAP10 1 1 1 1
---MAP11 1 1 1 1
---MAP12 1 1 1 1
---MAP13 1 1 1 1
---MAP14 1 0 0 0
---MAP15 1 1 1 1
---MAP16 1 1 1 1
---MAP17 1 1 1 1
---MAP18 1 1 1 1
---MAP19 2 1 1 1
---MAP20 1 1 1 1
---MAP21 1 1 1 1
---MAP22 1 1 1 1
---MAP23 1 1 1 1
---MAP24 1 1 1 1
---MAP25 1 1 1 1
---MAP26 1 1 1 1
---MAP27 4 1 1 1
---MAP28 1 1 1 1
---MAP29 1 1 1 1
---MAP30 7 1 1 1
---MAP31 1 1 1 1
---MAP32 1 1 1 1
---MAP33 1 1 1 1

 

It would be good to have map08 and map14 looked at.

[Mechadon]

I'll get a fixed build up with proper COOP starts on those two maps for you asap!

[damo]

How are you getting on with your fixes @Da Werecat? I think this wad is almost ready to submit to the TNS team.