The DWmegawad Club plays: No End in Sight

[bioshockfan90]

Looks like my E2M7 post got removed in this little update or change here, and I don't have it backed up or copied but E2M7 was a great map. Lots of stuff to explore, a good step up in difficulty, etc, etc.... 

 

Definitely a change from the more vanilla-looking DTWID levels leading into a more "NEIS" style. 

[Demtor]

Whoa, new forum layout? I had a good system going... Grrr, shake my fist at you I will. Get off my lawn!

E2M7 - “Gateway Labs” by Emil "NaturalTvventy" Brundage
gzDoom - UV – pistol start/no saves

 

Grr, I had troubles with this one. Seemed like a fairly obnoxious map filled with punishing traps at first but on my 4th and 5th attempt I could appreciate what this map was trying to do. The textures were a little too garish and busy, even for an ep2 map, but I think that was also tied in to what each key area was trying to accomplish thematically. I liked the design and unique look of some of the areas. The super fake exit ambush was funny if a little too predictable. The optional side areas were nice, except for the missable secret. Stuff like that reeks of BS to me. Especially when I only manage to find 3 of 13 secrets. What in the...? Where? HOW? I don't even...

 

Without a SSG the large groups of pinks/spectres, Cacos, Barons and everything else (often at the same time) made combat a very tedious and unforgiving affair at times. Which may be more of a failing of Doom 1 per say and not the authors fault but still, it felt problematic here. Appreciated the PG and RL ammo at least. That helped at times. So many barons though, I ran out quite a bit. Challenging stuff. Not my favorite at all but I hated it a lot less after beating it.

Edited March 15, 2017 by Demtor

[bioshockfan90]

E2M8: Rubicon|Some stats that didn't get logged|

 

Holy cow, actual easy text formatting! Goodbye, BBcode and HELLO to simpler typing!

Updates aside, this was a cool take on E2M8, a bit harder than the original since getting weapons is tougher, and movement is slightly more cramped. Still nothing special though, not really a fan of this but I can respect it. 

 

3.5/5

 

And with that, there's E2 done with! Overall the episode was a nice intro to some more creative designs and more challenging levels, with a lot of cool layouts thrown around. I would say my 2 favorite maps in the episode were E2M7 and E2M9. Shoutouts to E2M5 for being third place.

[Spectre01]

Looks like my e2m6 post got eaten by the forum update. :(

 

E2M6 - “Poison Control” by Chris Lutz

The first map by the second guest mapper here, Mr. Lutz delivers a sprawling nukebase map full of catwalks and bridges passing over the stuff. The secrets can be quite tricky to find but some, like the Berserk and armour, feel required to have fun here. It's rather long map and took me just over 30 minutes to max. Gameplay is more relaxed compared to Xaser's secret map with not much that should be twisting your plums. Some quirks exist here that I'm not a huge fan of. The mini-maze that blinks between pitch-black and bright is just unpleasant on the eyes rather than tense or atmospheric. This room containing 4 caged Imps and some Lost Souls is pasted 3 times and this poor Pinky is monster-blocked. There is some cool detailing here, like the outdoor area leading to the exit.

E2M7 - “Gateway Labs”

NT delivers a mammoth of a map with over 400 monsters as the penultimate e2 finale. Huge level which took me an hour to try and max, although I ended up only finding 9/13 secrets despite having the computer map. Speaking of secrets, some of them, and a few locations are one-time only and can lock you out if you either retreat or proceed to early without flipping some kind of switch first. Not a fan of that design decision. The fights here definitely step it up a notch but as long as you can run circles and pick off the shotgunners you're generally good. The large groups of monsters released in the hub area are easy to funnel into one of the hallways. There is a lot of visual variety on display here, with all 3 key paths offering their own distinct style and experience. I definitely enjoyed this map overall.

E2M8 - “Rubicon”

Obligatory Cyberdemon boss map on top of a tower, or at least a large platform raised over a damaging floor. I like the gimmick here with lowering Imps guarding supplies and hoping a Cyber rockets gibs the group standing over the Rocket Launcher so you don't have to pistol them. There's only a bit of plasma so the Cyber fight still ends up being a rocket duel.

 

E2 Thoughts

Still not straying too far from the id formula, this episode did have a few surprises mostly coming from Xaser. Favourite maps are e2m4 and e2m9.

Edited March 15, 2017 by Spectre01

[NecrumWarrior]

E2M8: Rubicon

 

A pretty cool take on the Cyberdemon arena. It was definitely more cramped despite the openness of the actual map. It was far more challenging than I would have expected and I had to fight him quite a few times before victory was mine. The episode ending delivers a pretty fun text wall at the end, and we prepare do dive once again into the sea of blood called Hell.

 

Oh yeah: Fuck Lost Souls.

[Magnusblitz]

E2M6: Poison Control

 

My original post for this got left behind in the switch over, but as a quick summary, I liked it. Pretty much just rambo'ed through it, and liked that every area felt different and was unique to look at.

 

E2M7: Gateway Labs

93% kills, 4/13 secrets

 

Hoo-ee, this was a big one. I got annoyed early on at the lack of health, especially in some areas that have a lot of difficult-to-avoid hitscanners and required damaging floors (that you can't even see beforehand due to dropping down), the worst being near the plasma gun in the blood area leading to the blue key. I did like the central conceit of gathering keys left in UAC-style vent ducts and returning to the central chamber only to face a new wave of enemies every time. Aesthetically it's maybe a bit too varied, feeling very jumbled, but perhaps that was the point.

[Steve D]

Ah, real-life work got in the way of my DWMC fun, as usual. Will I be able to catch up? Odds say I won't, but here's my thoughts on the last maps of E1.

 

 

E1M7 – Biosphere by Xaser

100% Kills, 66% Secrets, Zero Deaths

 

I usually die at least once in Xasermaps, but even without successfully dying, this one definitely kept me busy. As Getsu said, if you're familiar with Xasermaps, you'll recognize right away that you're in one. There's loops, plus weird little close-in spaces that give monsters an advantage as they hit you from peculiar angles. I wasn't thrilled with the space where unseen Sergeants plugged you from below. I got hit several times before I took the side path and found them.

 

At first, I wasn't feeling it, but the map loosened up as it went along and the encounters became more fun. The scenery is much more ambitious than previous maps, even though I wouldn't quite call this one attractive. For example, those tall Brown144 walls in the nukage area really got to me.

 

I didn't do so great at secret-hunting and there were 2 where the space was so small I had no idea what I found. This is a well-known complaint in a lot of maps, so I'm surprised to see it here. Bottom line: mappers should stop doing this.

 

One thing the map had in its favor was a level of verticality lacking in the rest of the episode. This made for intrinsically interesting areas plus more dynamic encounter design than previously seen.

 

I agree with Adam that the 2 rocket-spam encounters at the end were 1 too many.

 

Overall, this is a pretty fun map, my second-favorite after M9.

 

 

E1M8 – Enigma by NaturalTvventy

Zero Deaths

 

I agree with everyone who described this as underwhelming, There are so many things you can do with the original formula that it's a shame to see a map with so little ambition.

 

 

E1M0 – Tom's Halls by NaturalTvventy

100% Kills, 66% Secrets, 1 Death

 

Ah, the death which eluded me in the previous maps found me here. I died in the weird pillar area by making the mistake of being aggressive, which got me flanked. The easy way was to back against a wall and let the enemies come at me.

 

Anyway, this isn't such a bad map if you can overlook the texture usage. More than a little Wolfensteiny in its layout and absence of verticality, but that's to be expected in a Tom Hall homage. At least the opening battle against the hordes was fun.

 

 

E1:Overall Thoughts

 

It should be obvious from my map-by-map commentaries that I think this is a weak episode. I found the maps to be unattractive with generally dull combat. Encounter design was sacrificed and emphasis was placed on chained secrets, but these secrets rarely revealed compelling new areas or interesting encounters.

 

When I think of great E1 replacements, it comes down to Fava Beans, Dawn of the Dead, Classic Episode, CH_Retro and of course Double Impact. Several of these are vanilla yet have much more ambitious architecture, even those from the '90s. Combat is significantly more compelling, but here it needs be said that these episodes veer from the strict Knee Deep monster mix and in some cases feature the complete Doom bestiary. This gives them a significant advantage in encounter design, but nonetheless, KDiTD itself features more consistently interesting combat.

 

This episode does have its charms with occasional cool architecture, texture combos and extremely clever secrets. Alas, these elements rarely come together on a consistent basis.

 

Favorite maps:

E1M9 – Super-fun blast-fest from beginning to end

E1M7 – Nice verticality, interesting areas and fairly strong combat

E1M2 – Good architecture, atmospheric lighting and decent combat

 

 

[Demtor]

 

E2M8 - “Rubicon” by Emil "NaturalTvventy" Brundage
gzDoom - UV – pistol start/no saves

 

Well that was a fun Cyberdemon fight. Great set piece design. Switches on the inside and out of the column circle. Imps hiding inside each pillar with the item pick up spots just waiting for an errant missile. SPLAT! You can pistol them down but with the big guy marching around it's tough to keep your nerve as that is a slow process. Making the player wait for the wall sections to open and the imps to die, added a built in time mechanic to the whole thing. Not all are required either. Armor, soulsphere, backpack, PG, and two RLs. You have to guess which is where but it's up to you to stay alive long enough for things to fall in to play. Loved it. I also liked the Lost Souls sneaking in. Not sure if they were tied to the RL pick up but it sure felt like it! There were only 3 or 4 I think. Just a little extra challenge without being overly tiresome. The PG to help get rid of them if you so chose.  Precarious heights with certain doom below. Good stuff!

 

That's the end of Episode 2! (I think I'll wait until the final end before I judge these one at a time.)

[joe-ilya]

E2M8

 

Way better than E1M8, this one has more of a spark in it's encounter design, the big pickups are locked with a switch and a wall of meat, this mixes a little bit of infighting to get the big pickups and you having to move the cyber away by picking the big rocket stashes stored on the cliffs.

This map has tension and great gameplay, it's all I ever needed to finally be done with this dreaded episode.

 

5/5

 

E2

 

I didn't like this episode as much, it didn't have what made E1 great ; more outdoors, less doors with health and no cheap knock-offs of the classic ultimate doom maps.

 

2/5

 

In case I haven't rated E1 overall, here's my rating for it : 4/5

 

 

[TheOrganGrinder]

E2M7: Gateway Labs

 

This one has its share of interesting architecture and exciting moments but overall I found myself not so much a fan of the way it all comes together.  I felt like the central core and early corridors with their curious machines and electronics were among the map's strongest elements visually; the further I progressed into it, the less inspired and consistent things started to feel.  Similarly, traps and setups that were entertaining while navigating the map's first loop had lost their charm by the second or third time around, and ultimately after grabbing the blue key I just sprinted for the exit rather than sticking around to duke it out with the last wave of demonic reinforcements or poke through the map's corners for the majority of its secrets.  There are some good ideas and gorgeous design choices here, but not enough of either to fill out the area or running time the map is stretched over.

 

E2M8: Rubicon

 

This is a better showing, a relatively tight arena with some switches to play with, imp fodder to blast out of the way, and the omnipresent risk of an over-enthusiastic rocket dodge or the kinetic blast of a near miss sending the player off the edge of the battlefield.  The intermission text is right about the way this particular encounter never gets old, and it's an enjoyable way to round out the episode, a familiar opponent presented in an entertaining new twist on the expected environment.

[Spectre01]

Alright, time to start rolling in the E3 posts! I've played ahead a bit into this episode and it's an interesting change of pace. A word of warning to the blind+no save+uv-max crowd: There is quite a bit of content requiring traversing damaging floors with No Radsuits in Sight.

 

E3M1 - “Gates of Hades”

 

Episode 3 opens with a pure puzzle map where the combat is clearly an afterthought. Getting max here took me quite a bit of trial and error because a lot of this stuff is no exactly obvious. Exiting the map is also quite easy assuming this type of gameplay is not your thing. Big fan of the new hellish aesthetic with the main outdoor area and creepy sector art faces serving as rather iconic highlights. Cool stuff.

[Magnusblitz]

E2M8: Rubicon

100% kills, no map secrets

 

Unlike E1M8, this one puts some thought into sprucing up the Cyberdemon battle, mainly by placing the rocket launcher (and other powerups) in cages with imps that need to be opened and cleared first, and the rockets all along the edges of high cliffs. This provides a bit more excitement to the proceedings, though once the RL and ammo are acquired it's still pretty dang easy to take him out.

[bioshockfan90]

E3M1: Gates of Hades|12:28, 100% all|

 

Not a fan of this map at all. Didn't like the puzzle focused stuff, didn't like how insanely tricky it was to find secrets in the first place. I had to look at the secrets demo just to wrap my head around this, and still had trouble. Combat isn't fun to go through without the secret weapons, and.... ugh. The only thing this map has going for it that I liked was the Hell aesthetic. Please E3, don't become puzzle hell!

 

 

1.5/5

[NecrumWarrior]

E3M1: Gates of Hades

 

Okay so this is a hard one to judge at this particular time. See, I have a feeling that the weird puzzle based nature of this map is to teach us how puzzles will work in later levels without the pressure of enemies assaulting us. If this is true, then I approve of the map and applaud the audacity of creating such a tension filled map with little combat. If there aren't puzzles of this type in the later levels, then fuck, I don't know. It's a nice looking map at least, but really the whole puzzle aspect was really unappealing. Even a small amount of resistance before the ending would have made it more interesting. And maybe there was more where the secrets are but I pretty much played straight for the end.

 

Also I still disapprove of damaging water.

[Magnusblitz]

E3M1: Gates of Hades

100% kills, 3/3 secrets

 

I'm probably much more a puzzles-in-Doom fan than most here, but even this one tried my patience a bit. The berserk pack and soulsphere weren't much problem, but boy did the rocket launcher take me a looong time, first in finding how to light up the teleport map (ended up finding by accident by wall humping) and then what the switch raising the marble did. And the reward is just a RL I won't even be taking with me! :( Heh. It's a nice-looking map though, good take on the marble temple in hell setting.

[TheOrganGrinder]

E3M1: Gates of Hades

 

This is an unusual start to the new episode to say the least.  While the aesthetics are largely in the familiar Inferno! vein of green marble castles rising from landscape of rock and lava, the gameplay is anything but; instead, the map presents the player with a succession of somewhat taxing puzzles that, in at least two cases, depend upon retrieving information from one part of the map to put to use elsewhere.  I left at 8/12 kills, having not bothered with the optional Barons of Tyson after retrieving the berserk pack from their annexe, and 2/3 secrets, so there's probably more of this map for me to uncover on future playthroughs.  I don't know if this is intended as a hint of what's to come, a warm-up to more brain teasers in the episode ahead, or is simply a matter of putting an unconventional gameplay experience in a slot where its impact is only minimally annoying for those that don't find it engaging.  Whatever the case, its inclusion and position is an interesting design choice and one of the most pleasantly unexpected things I've seen in the WAD thus far.

[Demtor]

7 hours ago, Magnusblitz said:

but boy did the rocket launcher take me a looong time, first in finding how to light up the teleport map (ended up finding by accident by wall humping) and then what the switch raising the marble did. And the reward is just a RL I won't even be taking with me! :( 

 

Shitty. Glad I didn't waste any more time on that one.

 

10 hours ago, bioshockfan90 said:

Please E3, don't become puzzle hell!

My sentiments, exactly. 

 

EPISODE 3: WOE

 

Excellent opening view from above

 

E3M1 - “Gates of Hades” by Emil "NaturalTvventy" Brundage
gzDoom - UV – pistol start/no saves

 

Huh, a puzzle level. I think I missed something. I managed to figure out a few of them and was treated to some cool secret stuff along with a 2 vs 1 boxing match with a couple of Barons. (Don't think I've ever done that before!)

However, the checker board with the skull switch next to it; WTF is that all about? The secret with just rocket ammo and no launcher? I don't get it. I started parkouring on to some of the decent looking hell architecture, that I probably wasn't meant to be tip toeing on, just to try and find some sort of a clue or secret wall. Nothing. Blah, screw it. Wasted enough time on this. Moving on. 

 

I am looking forward to seeing what these guys can bring with the hell theme but I hope this kind of map isn't indicative of what the rest has to offer. 

[NuMetalManiak]

E3M1 Gates of Hades

What we've got here is a very unique level, one particularly short of monsters, but gives us a notion to solve something. Again, just exiting is simple enough, get the blue key, find a nearby blue door and hit a switch to open an exit path up. But where's the fun in killing the exit demons with just a scrawny pistol?

 

So there's a number of other things offered. You can reach for a berserk secret and fight off two barons with it, which involves a switchhunt with no hints at all in a hidden, non-secret area. The switch to open the exit involves some quick and efficient pillar crossing. There's also a solution to a teleporter puzzle in the main castle of this area. Getting the rocket launcher for this level is a difficult task, and figuring out just where to enter the teleport maze is a highlight. Then another hidden wall, then backtracking to a switch to shoot a formerly blocked switch. At the rocket launcher room, the switch here doesn't lower the damn weapon, so what do you do? Backtrack, find a tiny ledge, and land on the rocks finding a switch that will finally lower it. And then you finally get the gun you wanted, at the expense of fighting some barons again. Worth it? Maybe. These levels are definitely designed to screw with maxers.

[joe-ilya]

Here's my top 2 list from the maps of E2 :

1.E2M3

2.E2M9

 

E3M1

 

Yet another dull episode starter, there's nothing to do besides to walk on a collapsing bridge, a collapsed bridge, shoot a switch and go to the exit while a slow horde of demons miserably opens up as you're about to push the exit switch. Uh, demons... you're late and fired.

The worst thing was that wierd gap between the collapsed marble bridge that you can barely walk across to flip the switch on the other side.

There's nothing puzzling or engaging, the map's incredibly dull visually too, the only nice looking area was the start view, reminds me of earth.wad.

 

0/5

 

 

[bioshockfan90]

52 minutes ago, Demtor said:

 

However, the checker board with the skull switch next to it; WTF is that all about? 

 

I am looking forward to seeing what these guys can bring with the hell theme but I hope this kind of map isn't indicative of what the rest has to offer. 

That was actually a pretty cool concept, as was lowering the pit where the Pinkies would rise up. I might as well tell you now that you've passed by: The checker board has a specific route you have to take, there's clues to the route in other sections of the map.

[Demtor]

What hint?

 

The thing that gets me is if I take the white one on the left, I get sent back to the beginning. Ditto for the red one on the right. There seems to be no path possible.

 

If it is somehow tied to this room... I don't get it. The symbols on the wall don't offer any clue as all of the symbols on the puzzle board are the same and there are no indicators as to which square is good or bad on either. It's just another board in the middle of some damage water. What gives?

[bioshockfan90]

Gotta flip a switch in the room that had the 2nd screenshot. did you see any health bonuses?

 

 

Also there's some parkour involved.

Edited March 16, 2017 by bioshockfan90

[Demtor]

Ah hell, it was right there!? Thanks for the help. Those health potions aren't there on UV so I don't feel quite so bad. Still though, grr. I remember trying the walls thinking it would work exactly like it does but I must have skipped the pillars or something.

 

Taking hints away with higher levels of difficulty... interesting choice.

[Magnusblitz]

9 hours ago, joe-ilya said:

The worst thing was that wierd gap between the collapsed marble bridge that you can barely walk across to flip the switch on the other side.

 

You're not supposed to be able to run across it that way (there's another whole part of the puzzle that leads to you dropping onto from another angle), guess it wasn't tested closely enough. I haven't been able to make the jump work, to be honest.

[Spectre01]

10 hours ago, joe-ilya said:

E3M1

There's nothing puzzling or engaging, the map's incredibly dull visually too, the only nice looking area was the start view, reminds me of earth.wad.

 

Except, you know, the actual puzzles that the map is about. If you wannabe speedrun it and skip all the content, of course it's going to be dull.

 

As for the teleport puzzle, you alternate between red and white pads going right and around. Quicksave is your friend if you don't want to keep getting sent back to the tower. There was something similar in A.L.T. so I was prepared.

Edited March 16, 2017 by Spectre01

[bioshockfan90]

E3M2: Emblem of Destruction|19:43, 98% kills 50% secrets|

 

Finally, a map focused on combat! :D Was worried after E3M1, but it's all good. This was a great map, and I was a huge fan. Exploration and look was great, you have this Techbase-Hell infusion thing going on, lots of cool things to look at, fun traps. Not nearly as hard as we'd expect for E3 but it's only M2 so I'll forgive. And I somehow found 50% secrets, so I guess it's toned down from last map as well. You get a plasma gun, but I never used it. RIP. Good map.

 

4.3/5

 

PS: Did anyone else notice that the map was designed around looking like a pentagram of sorts? I kinda figured that's where the map name came from. 

Edited March 17, 2017 by bioshockfan90

[NecrumWarrior]

E3M2: Emblem of Destruction

 

So, I didn't hate this map. It was a decent challenge for sure, and I found myself really struggling for ammo and missing my chaingun. But it didn't really stand out to me. I felt like I was just going through the paces on this one. I was certainly glad to have something to shoot at this time around, but that really isn't a way of measuring this level's quality. I guess I would say it felt kinda average. I did rather like the combat maze at the end, though. It was pretty tough and I had to try a few different approaches to it before I managed to beat it.

 

Oh yeah, also playing this WAD and DTWID has made me realize how nice it can be to play episodically, losing all your weapons with each new iteration. It gives you something to look forward to. In Doom 2, once you have all the weapons there really isn't anything to get you excited other than new enemies and challenges.

Edited March 17, 2017 by NecrumWarrior

[baja blast rd.]

20 minutes ago, NecrumWarrior said:

In Doom 2, once you have all the weapons there really isn't anything to get you excited other than new enemies and challenges.

If you play continuously, no midlevel saves and pistol starts upon death is where it's at. It not only makes death meaningful (which in turn makes avoiding it maximally exciting) but also creates natural progression loops after the first one, since most levels aren't going to have every weapon or useful carryover items like the backpack.

[NecrumWarrior]

17 minutes ago, rdwpa said:

If you play continuously, no midlevel saves and pistol starts upon death is where it's at. It not only makes death meaningful (which in turn makes avoiding it maximally exciting) but also creates natural progression loops after the first one, since most levels aren't going to have every weapon or useful carryover items like the backpack.

You know, that makes a lot of sense. See, I started playing Doom when I was in High School, so I really didn't appreciate stuff like that back then. As a result I pretty much just play the same continuous style that I am accustomed to in more modern games. I think I might give Doom 2 a go like that (and on UV since there's no way I would find HMP challenging any more after playing Ancient Aliens).

[joe-ilya]

11 hours ago, Spectre01 said:

Except, you know, the actual puzzles that the map is about. If you wannabe speedrun it and skip all the content, of course it's going to be dull.

 

As for the teleport puzzle, you alternate between red and white pads going right and around. Quicksave is your friend if you don't want to keep getting sent back to the tower. There was something similar in A.L.T. so I was prepared.

First time I play a map I play it regularly and explore all there is, then I come up with a fast path so my videos won't be too long and will be exciting to view at the same time.

The thing is, in E3M1 I was looking all over the map to find out what the switch near the soulsphere secret did and what is the berserk secret button was for, and didn't find anything else to do besides to walk across the collaped marble bridge, it seemed like the only way to beat the level, not sure what I was supposed to do to reach the switch on the other side.

 

E3M2

 

This is the most proper maze map so far (says a lot when this is E3M2 already), it was actually refreshing to play especially after E3M1 because it was engaging and had something to the combat that the other mazey maps didn't have, such as interactive windows and traps that were nicely placed monster closets and a clever crusher room plus some bridges to rise in a fun way while dodging the few monsters around the fat catwalks and pillars that allowed for it.

 

5/5

 

 

Edited March 17, 2017 by joe-ilya
grammar