The DWmegawad Club plays: Speed of Doom

[baja blast rd.]

MAP22: Dead Echo

Fun map. I always like the concept of 'stocking areas' where you can trade in keys for weapons and other goodies. Again, Doom has a limited armory compared to any RPG, but if the map can successfully tease you with both the weapon and scenarios you really wish you had them for (like the cramped imp-heavy stuff), finally getting the weapon feels exciting, almost as if it's not a weapon you've already picked up in hundreds of other maps.

 

(As an aside, big plus in my book for Darkwave putting the initial pile of stuff in a convenient pile. A row would have worked too (skillsaw is fond of those). I think if you're going to give out lots of stuff at the very start, with the understanding that the player should have all of it before engaging anything, it should be easy to pick up quickly, not scattered around awkwardly. Big minus points for whenever a backpack is the farthest thing away, so that the player has to avoid picking up a cellpack or something and then loop back for it.)

 

Encounters are mostly about surprise, so when the surprise is gone, even the harsher encounters lose their bite. Bad thing? Sometimes, but here I don't think so, because the action is very suited to non-survivalist playstyles. There are only a few hitscanners, most of them at the start, so at some point this year it might be fun to try a briskly paced reality max.
 

Despite how rectangular everything is, the map is still good looking, on the strength of the color combos and the cool theme. I like to think the sky is surrounding everything because reality at ground level has fractured and is crumbling away, not because a small fortress suddenly took flight with lots of rocks and cave areas (support-lined?!) somehow attached to it. 

 

15 hours ago, Spectre01 said:

I found using the Chainsaw against the Cacos in map21 to be more consistent than trying to punch them out, which saved me a lot of potential damage from bad punching attempts.

That is not what I'm complaining about. :P 

 

Edited April 22, 2017 by rdwpa

[dew]

1 minute ago, rehelekretep said:

13 hours ago, galileo31dos01 said:

those holes for death people at the beginning (don't know if they have a name)

'graves' :D

Well, a bunch of open graves just gave me a good laugh. Thanks, Joshy & everyone.

[galileo31dos01]

MAP22: I took a picture of my time: 

Spoiler

Now, let's talk about this piece of... bitter lemon candy map. I was aware of how this was going to turn out, as the other players told many things about it. Walk a step; trap, grab a key, trap; flip a switch, trap; grab a weapon, trap; breathe, trap; fart, trap. Feeling empathy with NuMetalManiak, I'm not a fan of instapop enemies either. I suffer from allergies, due to temperature changes, and some days I end up having a headache due to sneezing so much. This map brought me the headache really soon. I tried to be patient and see the positive side all the time "oh well it could be worst, look at the textures, the red, the green, appreciate thWTF 4 ARCHVILES IN SUCH AN OPEN AREA WHYWHYWHYWHYWHYWHY"... I died many times in this map, some traps at the beginning were fine, infighting is always good. But something that really bothered me, not frustrated, bothered, was the red skull traps: first 4 revenants and one baron in a very claustrophobic place and me lacking of a plasma rifle (2 deaths). Then 3 archviles, 1 constantly resurrecting all the corpses (3 deaths). Then mancubus and imps in my face (no deaths, pure luck). To conclude, more mancubus and a single no threatening archvile (went fine). I left the previous soulsphere trap for later. Ok, the red switch, another fucked up trap, four archviles that obviously had to be killed with the BFG, that costed me like 7 or 8 tries as those barbecuers were always zigzagging my shots. The cybers killed me twice too, I tried to waste as less cells as possible, and preserve for the third one. That went like 15 minutes of running around, activating more traps, leaving them to infight, releasing the enemies from the soulsphere trap, escaping and looking for refuge in the red skull room, waiting for the archvile to kill the cyber, etc... attempts that went wrong, so the only succesful way for me was to BFG the cyber and move on. The rest went fine, ending in a massive infighting, the last baron killed the cyber. Once everyone was offed, I went to grab the soulsphere, the other secrets (Found 3/3, very good secrets btw) and left the fuck out of the map.

So, very unpleasant map, not horrible, but unfair, in some parts, others were ok, it's not about the difficulty, obviously we are at map22 and everything has to be harder, but most of these traps felt very cheap in my opinion. I don't know why but usually the later maps of most of the wads I've played were the least enjoyable. I hope this won't happen here... The music was fine, I like original Doom's tracks.

 

Something I've noticed, there is a switch-like with a skull block floating outside the map:

Spoiler

It is not visible in the automap and it cannot be touched.  

Edited April 22, 2017 by galileo31dos01

[Grain of Salt]

5 minutes ago, rdwpa said:

I always like the concept of 'stocking areas'

"Legs"

[The Bandit]

55 minutes ago, NecrumWarrior said:

It wasn't even the difficulty that pissed me off, is the thing. It was the cheapness of the situation. It's a pain in the ass to kill those Viles, and right when I think I have a breather moment I get completely wrecked. Because of the false sense of safety I didn't save and yeah. 

There's something to be said about cheapness.  We're talking 30 minutes of work washed down the drain in 5 seconds.  It's maddening dude.....I know.

[NecrumWarrior]

MAP22: Dead Echo

https://www.dropbox.com/s/wdlu334nvgaa7ts/SoD_M22_Necrum_GZ24.lmp?dl=0

https://www.dropbox.com/s/jmc8gcy1nit5gwb/SoD_M22_Necrum_GZ24_P2.lmp?dl=0

Kills: 85%

Items: 98%

Secrets: 66%

Time: 17:05

 

I dropped back in with with a clearer head and found that the Arch-Viles weren't as much of a challenge any more. Notably, one gets locked behind a wall if you are careful where you step during your stay in the room, which made it much more manageable. From there I didn't find the rest of the level THAT hard. Two Cyberdemons are pretty trivial when you're handed a BFG. It was actually pretty odd that the Rocket Launcher came after the BFG, but whetever. I ended up not grabbing it anyway because it would be useless in the close quarters fight with the Hell Knights. This map definitely feels like hell, which is more than I can say for the previous map honestly. Map21 was more like an E2 map in that it was heavily dominated by Techbases with Hell merging into it. Here it's all gothic architecture, so I guess you could call this the true start of Hell. I'm glad I went back and attempted the level again, because it left me feeling pretty satisfied when it was finished. Always nice to prove to myself that I have some skill at this game.

[NecrumWarrior]

1 hour ago, galileo31dos01 said:

Something I've noticed, there is a switch-like with a skull block floating outside the map:

It is not visible in the automap and it cannot be touched.  

You can shoot it for a secret. I'll be honest though, I never figured out what it was connected to for sure.

 

Just opened the map in GZDoom Builder, turns out it's part of the sequence to reach the Blue Armor (I think anyway). You must have triggered it with a stray bullet at some point.

Edited April 22, 2017 by NecrumWarrior

[galileo31dos01]

48 minutes ago, NecrumWarrior said:

You can shoot it for a secret. I'll be honest though, I never figured out what it was connected to for sure.

 

Just opened the map in GZDoom Builder, turns out it's part of the sequence to reach the Blue Armor (I think anyway). You must have triggered it with a stray bullet at some point.

That's strange, I'm pretty sure I've never shot to that point, unless one of the pellets from a SSG shot went directly that far. I thought that the blue armor was reachable just by using the left skull of the lift.

 

I just checked and the truth is that the blue armor is still obtainable without the sequence. If you go up the lift, return to the same point but from the other side and walk inside the lift, it will automatically lower and you can now press the skull and obtain the armor. The intended way was to shoot that distant skull which releases another switch, which I didn't see before and explains the suspicious linedef I saw in the automap.

[NecrumWarrior]

2 minutes ago, galileo31dos01 said:

That's strange, I'm pretty sure I've never shot to that point, unless one of the pellets from a SSG shot went directly that far. I thought that the blue armor was reachable just by using the left skull of the lift.

 

I just checked and the truth is that the blue armor is still obtainable without the sequence. If you go up the lift, return to the same point but from the other side and walk inside the lift, it will automatically lower and you can now press the skull and obtain the armor. The intended way was to shoot that distant skull which releases another switch, which I didn't see before and explains the suspicious linedef I saw in the automap.

Yeah, it's set up really weird. I guess they decided it was too obscure just sitting out there so they added another way to trigger it? Very odd.

[Demtor]

 

MAP22 - “Dead Echo” by Darkwave0000
gzDoom - UV – pistol start

 

Dead Echo is a pretty metal title. I think “Cyberdance” fits better. However the AV spam was getting pretty obnoxious around that RK area so I could of come up with something very different… In any case, I somehow managed to deal with them well enough thanks to the plethora of shotgun shells given. Lots of in your face pop up ambushes. The one with nobles and revs was particularly scary. The instant drop down reveal of imps/mancs and more AV’s almost got me though. I don’t know how but I lucked out again by running back to the start and squeezing behind the other fat manc for cover.

 

The best parts of this map though, involved Cyberdemon use. The frozen pair coming to life at the beginning and then having another one teleport behind you was intense and fun. Especially because I just ran right in, dodging around the two and ended up fighting THREE of them while they had more buddies teleporting in to that little courtyard. 

 

Then, after all the, showing us a forth one behind the next big door before teleporting him away until the end when he comes back in front of the blocked exit as a whole mess of monsters joins him. Good stuff and not too difficult considering that the BFG was given before the RL on this map. Hah! That doesn’t happen often but it was needed. 

[rehelekretep]

talking about avatars fitting with comments by their owners; how about @galileo31dos01's new face? :D

[baja blast rd.]

It's also what I imagine to be most people's reactions to the more eccentric setups. This atrocious photoshop is how I imagine the end of map20 went down. :D

 

I think my avatar works well for me too. And I keep randomly laughing at yours.

 

Edited April 22, 2017 by rdwpa

[DAZZER]

MAP22: Dead Echo
Time - 14:40

 

Finally we move away from the mostly Tech base setting into a hellish setting like it should be ^^ hopefully it stays like this to the end :) Remember when i said I dont like it when Maps work against you and the only goal for the creator is to kill you ? I think this Map excatly tried that :c Unfortunately... But I have to say I'm really really Dumb.. or blind. In the beginning area you need the blue key for the BFG and the Red for the rocketlauncher and rockets I looked further and saw a SSG and thought ok for that the yellow Key... BUT IT WAS FREE AND I DIDN'T TAKE IT ! X_X So I ended up playing the whole Red Skull Key Area with normal Shotgun... That... That was really not Fun for me ... Where is my goddamn Price for beeing so Dumb ? ^^ atleast Fighting the Cybers was Fun :) The End was pretty unspectucular... why should I waste munition If i can just exit ?

[Spectre01]

2 hours ago, DAZZER said:

MAP22: Dead Echo
The End was pretty unspectucular... why should I waste munition If i can just exit ?

For that sweet 100% kills. UV-Max or bust!

[Demon of the Well]

It lives! Sort of!

 

Map 15 -- Descent to Core - 102% Kills / 100% Secrets

SoD undergoes a sort of soft episode break here (with the secret levels as a traditionally 'anything goes' transition period), as this is the set's final techbase map, at least in the conventional sense. It's competently made and has a bit of a subtle air of gravity by dint of having taller ceilings than most of Joshy's other indoor maps, though the overall look of the thing doesn't particularly appeal to me, sort of slotting into an E1 'sampler platter' aesthetic (which has only become even more common since SoD's time with the advent of 'the CC4 look', though I suppose these days that is being somewhat supplanted by the very clean/arcade-y Skillsaw-base look) where the texture palette is about 1/3 (Ultimate) Doom assets, 1/3 Doom II assets, and 1/3 custom stuff in a loose array. Looks.....cheap and grubby....somehow, though I suppose it could be argued that's how a distant Jovian outpost owned and operated by a faceless megacorporation ought to look.

 

More importantly, though, it's pretty fun to play, for the most part, anyway. The thrust of Joshy's penchant for using a berserk pack right at the start of his maps to be used primarily as a strategic healing source rather than as a primary weapon is quite evident here--you likely tank quite a goodly amount of hitscan damage in the opening few seconds, but if you clean up quickly the pack is there as a balance item to keep you from having to limp through the next 5 minutes of the map. For a small map with a very pronounced split-level plan (i.e. very starkly delineated upstairs and downstairs areas) it visually interconnects well, the spiderdemon casually loafing around in the waterfall area being deceptively effective as area denial, and also effectively delivers on one of the inherent strengths of compact plans by reusing oft-traveled spaces for a number of different fights, making the level as a whole seem more of a knock-down/drag-out fight, generally a satisfying pace for Doom. The crusher corridor is also a somewhat out-of-character direct weaponization of the environment, and memorable for that reason despite being very brief.

 

All is not sterling, however: the amount of demonfat upstairs in the small room at the southeast corner is excessive to the detriment of gameflow, and the cyberdemon who eventually appears in the cage is patently unnecessary and feels somewhat like paying a P. O. box fee or renewing your license plates or some other menial out-of-pocket task, being unsatisfying to kill from any available angle. Not the first time this is going to happen before we're through, incidentally, as most of you have already discovered.

 

As to the secret exit gambit, well.....I did not, in fact, access it on my first attempt, though it quickly becomes pretty clear what you need to do once you get a chance to take a proper gander at that game-y little hillock upstairs (the "AV >>" symbols appearing on the automap really drive it home if you happen to look at it), which realistically speaking will happen after it's already too late. This sucks, frankly, IMO. AV-jump secrets certainly have their place, but I've never been fond of those that essentially gate huge swathes of game content (as opposed to smaller scores like powerups or bonus weapons or the like) behind a barrier of precognition or, more realistically, an enforced restart (though I suppose there is some room for the saves/no saves dichotomy argument here?)--more telegraphy if you're going to take this tack, please!

 

Map 31 -- 101001010 - 100% Kills / 100% Secrets

Stars.mid! The community is full of fine music throughout its various eras, but only a few pieces from each become truly timeless, for good or for ill. This track, I do believe, is already one of them, and this strangely organic landscape of compblue and circuitry and silver is an important part of that legacy--see it and I bet you'll never forget it, regardless of how you felt about the experience of actually playing it.

 

Anyway. As players who joined us for Hellbound surely know, this map is the source material for said later megaWAD's m31, being more or less a 1:1 homage/tribute both thematically and conceptually. I think this map's a lot more fun to play than Z86's, both because it's shorter (potentially much shorter, depending on your battle strategy of choice) and simply because Darkwave0000 plainly has more a natural knack for this style of monster placement, which is essentially founded on positioning small armies in such a way as to flow and potentially interact over airy, open, and irregular rolling geography, underscoring the player's footspeed as his/her true Doomsday weapon. In that sense, I think that this map can be very fairly viewed as both a foreshadowing and a crucial turning point in his later development as a WAD author, with his more recent work consisting largely of a series of in-depth and greatly expanded explorations of this 'topographical slaughter' style, as I've taken to calling it, where the small armies of "101001010" are swapped for larger armies (or, alternatively, shitloads of small armies all on the march simultaneously) and the battlegrounds are as deep and expansive as they are surreal.

 

Somewhat deceptively, perhaps (depending on one's familiarity with this general type of gameplay), this is actually quite an easy map, at least provided you're willing to play the game at least somewhat on the author's terms--i.e. move around and maybe press forward instead of trying to camp out, which in most cases provides you the choice of fighting a series of smaller battles with the extremely generous supply of ammo scattered across the landscape, or alternatively fighting fewer, larger battles by colliding the different armies to allow for infighting to take a heavy toll. This fundamental gentleness will make it or break it for some tastes, inevitably. Speaking for myself, this type and timbre of play generally appeals to me as good low-pressure leisure fare, in the same way that cute 'n casual stuff ala 'classic' KDitD replacements and the like appeal to others. While it's easy, I think it flows and to some extent self-conducts quite naturally and believably--i.e. it seems easy by design, rather than as a side-effect of ineffective placement, which was an issue hampering Hellbound's tribute. In contrast to that map, the Keen-hunt gating off m32 here is also a lot easier, incidentally, which again depending on your particular tastes in gameplay will either come as a blessed relief or as another disappointment.

 

The secret letting you eventually telefrag that one arachnatron in the tower who can see you at the start has always stuck out in my mind. In practical terms, it's a really dumb secret--like, it's not even remotely relevant anymore by the time it actually happens since you may or may not clue in on the second/nested secret (which is also totally superfluous)--and yet it's almost disturbingly satisfying, since he is all but impossible to hit with conventional attacks and will boorishly taunt you with his belligerent chirruping every time you walk along that hill until you finally make it up there just to shut him up. Like I've said, Darkwave's apparently a funny guy (Joshy too, actually!), though you often have to poke around a bit more than you otherwise might to really get a sense of this. :)

 

Map 32 -- Pyramid of Death - 101% Kills / No actual secrets

Yep.

 

This is a pretty damned crass map, although not without its charms. Of its various stated influences--all of which are openly called out in the pre-m31 text intermission, incidentally--not all are perhaps immediately evident, though in the context of the larger mapset I think the homage is actually pretty spot-on on a conceptual level, since this is essentially an oldschool zone of influence slaughtermap (albeit one cranked up to 11), in line with many of the landmark challenge-oriented megaWADs of yore from which SoD takes inspiration, and in stark contrast to the great majority of the rest of SoD, where Joshy generally takes a very different approach to area denial and Darkwave generally likes to let you stretch your legs a bit more.

 

This one's tough, make no mistake, though I wouldn't agree that it's the WAD's toughest level. It'll kill you dead in a heartbeat if you let it, sure, and even if you do things properly you can occasionally be fucked by an unhappy freak of monster-pathing, but it's really not as much of a to-do as it might initially seem, again provided you're willing to go with the flow instead of turtling up and dwelling on how 'impossible' it all seems. Many of our players this month are new to this kind of thing, so it's understandable to be intimidated--overcoming that's usually half the battle with this kind of thing, you know!--and I think there's a temptation or expectation for the rest of us (myself included) to overanalyze maps that are deadly, as a really cerebral, carefully crafted approach to lethality is a core concept in various landmark WADs of the current age. The secret here is that "Pyramid of Death" is not cerebral or carefully crafted in any sense; it's just an unapologetic exercise in wanton escalation for the joy of it, as utterly hamsterbrained features ala the massive infinitely-tall fail re: the gasbag swarm or the deceptively ineffectual three-deep revenant planters or the Moats Made of Goats (TM) all attest.

 

Don't take it too terribly seriously and it's still entertaining, though, and as per usual that's what matters. The secret here is not to try to give the map more credit for its sophistication than it deserves by attempting to develop some terribly elaborate and delicate strategy--just tank damage, hit switches, gobble up items and plow north without concerning yourself overly much with actually fighting things, and then get vile-blasted into the V-sphere up north. Do this and you've essentially won, as in true ZoI fashion the rest of the map places the ball and initiative firmly in your court (though it's still most fun/effective to continue with hamfisted BFG-zerg tactics even from that point!). Sure, you'll probably die a number of times attempting this, since there's sooooooo much attrition blanketing such a small space, but each failed attempt likely only takes a minute or two, and so the actual opportunity cost vis-a-vis your sanity and patience will likely be surprisingly low. Of course, if this is your first time playing the map, it's probably not obvious that this is what you ought to do, which may prompt you to laboriously try to clear things out as you go, which is doubtless significantly less entertaining, and more than a fair criticism--as with a number of Joshy's other maps in the set, the level is almost certainly guilty of going on too long for something framed in such a small space, and played in this way that quality of the level is magnified hundredfold. Just how joylessly untenable trying to play in that way here actually is is a decent counter to the problem, IMO, but of course your mileage will vary.

 

I actually like the finale with the demon-stamped and the boss monsters and the viles dancing around on the pyramid, incidentally, unusual since the coda often seems to be the part of the tune where Joshy most often loses the beat (ala the cyberdemon from his map 15 prior). I would also fully agree with the sentiment that the very janitor-y part of the map (i.e. wherein you eventually mow down the hilariously ineffective gasbag swarm and collect the last two of the three keys from the side platforms) is a mite untoward, though I can accept it as something of a genre-piece. Also of note is that it's easy to get blasted out of the map up north, which has been clumsily bandaged by a weirdly inconsistent system of block-lines and damaging sectors to keep you from just trying to hang out up there.

 

Look, I'll level with you: this is a stupid map. It's lovably stupid, though, and a proud member of a historical tradition of joyfully stupid maps, provided one views it as the optional/change-of-pace diversion which it is.

 

Map 16 -- The Core - 100% Kills / 100% Secrets

Darkwave's half of the mid-E2 farewell to techbases, this level depicts a reactor or fusion node of some sort buried deep underground, the ostensible goal being to destroy it (thus powering down the base) before moving onto the game's 'anomaly' phase. This is probably the simplest level in the game (well, excepting....you'll see), and so there's really not too terribly much to say about it. It can basically be played in two ways: either as a series of four smallish and largely unremarkable arena-fights, or, with a little bit of elbow-grease, as one big scrappy arena brawl, achieved by activating all four waves at once. This is of course vastly more efficient considering the BFG shows up as part of the fourth wave, though in this case the concept is simple enough that I wouldn't say either approach is really any more 'correct' than the other. There's an early secret on offer as well (complete with minor encounters for spice), which affords an early RL of momentary utility for clearing space for the 4-waves approach, though its actual place in the balance is rather nebulous.

 

As a bit of trivia, you don't actually have to blow up the reactor in order to exit the map, which means you can actually leave without really fighting anything except for the handful of knights and the pair of viles in the last couple of mini-traps (having a bunch of monsters alive out in the arena will of course screw with your autoaim and prevent you from targeting the reactor's weak point). It's a cool cosmetic effect, though, simulating a power-down sequence with lighting and barrels and a few convenient triplines, and really, what sort of marine are you if you fuck off without finishing the job?

Edited April 23, 2017 by Demon of the Well

[DAZZER]

MAP23: Poison Ivy II
Time - 11:38

 

This Map has a very very hard start. But I found one little spot that helped me at the start alot ! If you drop down to the lava area you can see theres a Spider Mastermind... burst it away with the BFG and from that hall you can kill all the upper revenants, Hell Knights or Cacos with the RL. of course this just works if you play continues ^^ good luck on all who try to beat this with pistol start. After you managed to stay alive I think this Map is really cool. I like the Fights and enjoy the Fact that this is no BFG Spamming Brutal Slaughter Map. I like the Vine Setting thing. again this could have taken some inspiration from Scythe II :P who knows... It's no secret that Megawads get hard till the End and I knew Maps like this will come. I'm just Happy it didn't end in Chillax type of Maps.

Edited April 23, 2017 by DAZZER

[NuMetalManiak]

MAP23 Poison Ivy II

 

I forgot all about this level until it showed up, then I remembered. This is easily the hardest level in the entirety of Speed of Doom and only MAP32 can match up to it in some way. Extremely assholish start, nice one putting a cyberdemon to my side, arch-viles in places they can snipe, another cyber in a prominent sniper position, chaingunners in the fucking worst of spots. The safest possible area at first would go straight left, to the yellow switch where the mancubi are present, kill them to buy time to lure all the other shitheads to the left side, then run like heck past the popup monsters who get in the way while going to where the spiderdemon is.

 

Oh wait what about those weapons? Right, the first cyberdemon guards them, and his main habit is being a static piece of crap about it too. Other than the BFG, the pistol starters will have to fight that cyber just to get them (the BFG itself requires a jump over a lava pit, you pretty much need THAT gun of course). There's not a good strategy I can come up for this one, even after watching some demos. The teleporting monsters can be real painful too, right after the yellow key for instance. Oh yeah, and I mentioned those mancubi from earlier. They get resurrected by an arch-vile over there too. And yet more cyberdemon bullshit. Pretty certain, we have the most frustrating map in the entire set here. Another conundrum, why are the best midis ALWAYS in the most annoying maps?

[Demtor]

 

MAP23 - “Poison Ivy II” by Joshy

gzDoom - UV – pistol start

 

Crazy, crazy map. Very confusing at first. Especially after the last map’s nonsense. What the hell am I supposed to do here? Punch a Cyberdemon to death?

 

Actually I ended up just running around and looking at stuff. 10 deaths later I found some weapons. After that I could start trying to actually do something. By doing something I mean running lots of circles and letting monsters fight each other while I collected ammo. Took me a bit to figure out the next area though as I didn’t see there was a tiny switch back there. I didn't think I would have to to stand toe to toe with a SMM, gripping my plasma rifle and praying for the random number generating video game gods to be generous.

 

This whole scrambling start to a map that’s done over and over again never feels good to me. I can do it, but it isn’t that much fun IMO. Wasn’t even sure I was doing things “correctly” but getting the BFG was a reassuring moment.

 

I don’t know how this lava flow effect with the YK was done, but it is super impressive. The ambush following that key is hilarious. I didn’t want to waste ammo with so many big demons and AV’s running around so I sat in a corner and just punched the shit out of pinkies and lost souls until their numbers thinned out a bit. There was a funny moment when it felt like I was tag teaming everyone with the Manc who joined the fray as well.

 

That was probably the highlight of this map for me. The rest was just a lot of AV’s and more Cyberdemons along with a dozen more revs and what not. Bleh. I can handle these kinds of maps but I don’t enjoy them. My favorite types of maps are more along the lines of a well designed dungeon crawl infused with Doom sensibilities and combat. That said, this wad probably isn’t going to end up on my list of favorites.

[gaspe]

MAP23: What a start. Maybe in continuous is better since you can react but on a pistol start you pretty much have to run around until you eventually find the weapons (or you know in advance where to go) and then you can wipe out those who survived the various infighting. The situations is pretty tame until you reach the yellow skull, then the other half of the enemies will teleport in the map. Including some archviles in the central trower, and later on other archviles will teleport in the same place... yawn. Pretty nice visually, an obvious reference of Scythe 2 jungle episode. Not sure how this compares to the original Poison Ivy, and if it's the case to do that.

[Paul977]

Map 22 Dead Echo (great map name Darkwave)

 

I like this one a lot. Encounters are the kind I'm fond: fights in rather narrow areas and resource management. I replayed this map 4-5 times (mainly for trying to overcame the last fight without taking the lift but failed) and everytime I enjoyed the level more. The midi is fitting and that plus the opening scene, reminded Cyberden from Plutonia which is cool.

Aesthetically it's a very well-made hellish map with the addition of the void element of which I particularly liked the vista of the final area from the lift that lead to secret blue armor. Only thing I didn't like from the visual department is the 'chessboard floor', personally I find it a bit out of place. Anyway this is a great map and it would really be a killer level with two soulspheres less.

[baja blast rd.]

MAP23: Poison Ivy II

 

This map is one of those 'hard' maps that would benefit from a boost in actual difficulty, to replace the awkward and tedious parts. Like map32, the first half is the fun part (although worse here, because infinitely tall spectres and cacos make the lava pool annoying), and the map essentially ends at its halfway point, everything after the yellow key fight being pointless. The exit could become freely accessible at that point, basically, but if not, I would have liked to see some viles on the ground instead of in that silly cylinder -- maybe appearing through closets so they'd wake up when the player got there, instead of reviving a bunch of the map first. That would have been a fun way to use all of those cells. What really rubbed me the wrong way, though, is that I killed the mancs guarding the YK switch before this, and then ended up having to rekill them during when the viles showed up, which involved a lot of chaingun sniping through those windows. Based on comments it seems like there might be some designed parallels with Scythe II, with map23 in both being the 'shit gets real' map, although I think "Whispering Winds" is a lot better. 

 

Fun fact: You can use a vile jump to grab the second megasphere early if you need it. It's not going to be so useful later on anyway.  

 

6 hours ago, Demtor said:

I don’t know how this lava flow effect with the YK was done, but it is super impressive.

 

Glad you brought this up. I agree that it looks nice. It's made with lots of close drawing (I think editors available in 2009 allowed overlays of floor and ceiling surfaces -- imagine this being done in the '90s :D). That sort of microdetailing is a staple of the 2000s, but in this case it looks very seamless (and thus timeless) because the combination of flats can realistically pass as a distinct texture, instead of lava 'detailing' the rock. So it's not 10x more busy visually than the bare surroundings, as is often the case with microdetailing. I also liked this bit of design, the pillars with small wood columns. The facade of the building is well made too. I like how the 'steps' of the building wall go one way, and the rock terracing goes the other. This is a nice looking map, although, again, the rectangular look is not my preference. 

 

Edited April 23, 2017 by rdwpa

[galileo31dos01]

MAP23: Time: 45:33

I didn't die... less than 10 times. This little map was madness, the beginning has everything you wish you'd never want to face again, there is no place to be safe unless you get that sniper archvile distracted. Sure I was prepared emotionally, I was not going to let the map ruin my day or pisses me off because of dying a lot. These kind of trial and error maps, where you have to have foreknowledge of everything at the very beginning, are not my type of maps. However, after map32 my patience has been broadened enough to tolerate maps like this. So, my experience:

It started with me looking desperately for a safe spot. There was not any safe spot lol. Wherever I went there was something big or little ambushes in tight places. My final choice was to off the row of mancubus with my RL (since I'm playing continuous), and everyone who was coming, leaving me with enough time to think my next moves. The sniper archvile was distracted by a cyberdemon who eventually ended up dying, thanks archie!. For some reason the main cyberdemon on the exit spot was distracted by god knows whom, that gave me some time to off other enemies as well as the SMM, who killed me once because the BFG wasn't working... I know what NecrumWarrior said to me but I was nervous and fucked it up. Then returned to kill that cyber with the plasma rifle, yay we got the plasma rifle!

Anyway, from there I proceeded to follow the sequence to finally kill the annoying hell knights. The YK obvious trap was a little nasty, specially those archviles that didn't want to die with my powerful shots. At least, the RL room worked for me as a safe spot, more or less. The cyber was really easy to be honest. The other archies were annoying too but at least they were easy. The last enemies were sort of a joke compared to the previous traps. I got the SMM to infight with everyone, including the chaingunners, that was fun to hear. She killed the archies for me, so the remaining revenants didn't last so long. And the end! 

A few things, the spectres in the lava pool were really annoying, I guess it is what you call "infinite tall enemies" right?. There were no secrets, kind of like a pizza without cheese. I saw a glitch in the YK area, depending on where you're standing you can see a line of lava on the rocks. 

Hmm, is the music from Hexen? It seemed very Heretic for me, but it's not from that game. Anyway, ok map I guess.

 

[Demon of the Well]

It lives!, cont'd

 

Map 17 -- The Shrine - 103% Kills / 100% Secrets

In the SODINFO textfile, Joshy refers to a number of his maps in the set as being the products of 'stream of consciousness' bursts of creativity. This is not a remark he makes about this particular map--his main comment is that "difficulty may be slightly deviant in its slot"--though it has always struck me that way, something like a mapping exercise in building a room at a 45 degree angle (i.e. the highly symmetrical central junction with a small building in the lava pool in its center, presumably the titular Shrine), with four wings spoking off of it to fill out progression. While the different fights generally don't feel like they have any particular thematic connection to me (as is often the case with neatly segmented hubspoke layouts), the level is somewhat tied together conceptually by the use of the lava river running through its center, which adds (mostly minor) complications to combat in the central hub, to the RK wing to the northeast, and perhaps to task of clearing out the last few hell knights to reach the exit switch at the end. The lava flow is positioned to inflict incremental chip-damage as you work through otherwise simple/linear fights. There are six radsuits placed in mirrored positions around the central shrine to mitigate any inconveniences this might cause, and this is the rub, really: if you are a slow-rolling, conservative player who likes to limit self-exposure as much as possible, these six may not be enough, particularly if you misjudge when to pick them up and especially considering that the actual amount of healing available in the level is fairly limited outside of the soulsphere secret, whereas if you tackle the map head-on you really only need a couple of them. Little of note beyond this wrinkle, though again it strikes me that the map's ending fight kind of sucks, SSGing away the aforementioned HKs one by one while circling to the switch.

 

In aesthetic terms, the second minisode of E2 obviously begins here. The visual style is basically Plutonia at this point, albeit with something of a "Thy Flesh Consumed" inflection between the classic sunset sky and some of the marble/iron bas-reliefs used for decorating some of the inner reaches. This is a rolling theme for much of the rest of the game, sort of a tour of different spins on the Plutonia style (several by way of Scythe II and other interpretations), which will eventually roll over into more of a traditional hellscape with bits of Plutonia scattered about. For now, I reckon the texture combos here are nice enough, tried and tested as they are, with a subtle 'opposing sides' scheme suggesting you're passing into new territory, though the layout as a whole being fairly simple doesn't really make the map particularly memorable. Another of the most popular of the older Stewboy tracks, "Nightrun", features here. It's a good track in its own right, and was presumably chosen to underscore the Plutonia theme, though I don't think it fits the tone of the level very well in this case.

 

Oh yeah, note the soulsphere secret. Totally looks like you're supposed to AV-jump there, yeah? You can, in fact, but there's another, more conventional way if you exercise patience, something you may be leery of doing after m15's trick with the secret exit sequence earlier. I highly doubt this is coincidence. Funny guys, like I said.

 

Map 18 -- Silent Hour - 101% Kills / 60% Secrets

Looks like I'm the odd one out here--lots of folks seemed to really like this one, IMO it's kind of dry, though, and not one of Darkwave's better maps. I do understand the appeal mind you. The way I figure, the main value on offer here is that the level's got some nonlinearity to it, giving you the choice of moving into the blood-filled stone silos housing the BFG and RSK from the outset, or alternately working your way into the mossy crate/storage area comprising the majority of the map's real estate, which ultimately ends with the acquisition of the YSK visually teased atop the bloodfall across from the cyber-tower and mancubus galleries (you can also drop into the blood trench separating the east and west sides, though it's basically a no-go until you've got some weaponry). The playstyles in these two areas are distinctly different, with the former featuring simple arena fights and the latter based around room-clearing, giving the level some welcome variety. Digging a little deeper, also on offer are more of Darkwave's signature secret treats, including a subquest which allows you to remotely squish all of the mancubi in the aforementioned gallery, the oddly positioned HKs in the dirt mounds at the back of the storehouse area, as well as telefrag one of (!) the cyberdemons. Couldn't manage to find my way into the locked storehouses this go round, sadly.....I've been in there before, and I seem to recall the access method has something to do with a secret passage behind a crate, but couldn't figure out how to get it to open this time. Ah, well.

 

It should also be noted that the map's name, "Silent Hour", is not without meaning: if you play it totally pacifistic (i.e. 'silent') for a few minutes at the start, you can collide the vast majority of the monsters from the RSK silos (which all phase in after being alerted by sound once you've crossed certain thresholds) with many of the monsters gathered in and around the starting courtyard, all while arming yourself to the teeth with great efficiency, which makes for an amusing mid-grade riot where the only real threats are the straggling arch-viles. Not bad stuff, by any means, but I guess most of the action in the inner reaches and the concluding stuff doesn't speak to me as much as it might. A lot of the combat in the former takes the shape of room-by-room gunfights with mid-tiers and ledge-walkers through windows and from atop crates, which is a little more hands-off than I like to see from this author. Designed encounters also read just a little stale, with the pre-YSK fight being a textbook "Gotcha!" riff (somewhat notable, I suppose, in that this is the rarer type of framing where the spider will usually beat the cyber fair and square, rather than the other way around) and the end bit being a direct reprisal of the V-sphere crackerbox from the end of m10 earlier in the game, just without the cheekily calculated aspect of timed tension.

 

The level does look quite good, though, IMO, being one of Darkwave's most thematically unified maps in the set, essentially covering the entire Plutonia snapshot album in the span of one efficient mid-length tour, with natural transitions between themes and some stylish silver and wood trim for a personal touch. Don't really like the music track here, though--it's kind of loud, very simple/repetitive, and I feel like the cutesy martial beat clashes with the flute voices.

 

In all, certainly a solid/respectable affair, but doesn't quite do it for me, somehow.

 

Map 19 -- Impure Serenity - 102% Kills / No official secrets

Second breather map from Joshy in a row, here, this time very obviously referencing the early 'garden' segment of Scythe II's jungle ruins episode (which, of course, was a loving re-imagining of the general Plutonia theme), albeit with a hint of stark concrete industrial base here and there, using a popular Final Fantasy track which has appeared in a good number of other PWADs. Moreso than map 17, this one reads like it's actively intended to be something of a break (or a calm before the storm, if you like), though it's not without the possibility for complications, owing to an ammo/thing balance which can get really, really tight about two thirds of the way in if you misjudge your expenditures earlier on--it's usually better to value reaching items over reaching keys/new areas here, if that helps. Note also the absence of a berserk pack, further underscoring Joshy's tendency to treat it more as a healing item than as a weapon. Notably, the obvious/expected fights themselves are generally no sweat at all, occasionally being understated to point where you may suspect you're being had and will thus find yourself waiting for the other shoe to drop (it never does), particularly the case with the gloomy BK cave, guarded by a whopping 5 gasbags or so, who all phase in one by one (shared teleport destination) to be summarily dispatched.

 

The lackluster cyberdemon encounter from the end of m15 returns here, unfortunately, and plays out in almost exactly the same way, with you using the plasma gun to hose him down through one of the openings into the starting room's central enclosure, where he guards a set of four new switches needed to make the exit pad accessible. I don't understand how this repetition of a very static fight seemed like a good idea, frankly, and it puts a bit of a sour note into what is otherwise a reasonable change-of-pace map.

 

Another gripe: you can reach the unofficial megasphere secret by doing a little 'kick-flip' sort of maneuver from atop the tiny crate in the room at the end of the upstairs hallway, onto the windowsill and then down into the well outside, which is cool. Try the same logic elsewhere, though, such as trying to explore the poison plane with dead guys floating in it barely contained by the dike beyond the blue bars by tip-toeing along the fence's seating, and you're met with blocking lines. Dammit. Probably a silly thing to be bothered by, 'objectively' speaking, but harmful to immersion in a significant way, IMO, and deleterious to that mapper/player 'dialogue' that helps drive longer sets with 1-2 authors.

 

Map 20 -- The Path to Hell - 100% Kills / 100% Secrets

Believe it or not, it seems that almost nothing about this map stuck in my memory since the last time I played it, though I did start getting some sense of familiarity upon seeing the western ooze/bricks annex, and the 'sorcerer's tower' climb preceding the final trek through Goat Valley. It asserts itself largely through its pronounced sense of scale and spectacle, featuring mostly big fights framed in large, tall areas, but feels a bit conceptually underworked in comparison to many of Darkwave0000's other SoD maps. Similar to maps 17 and 18, the layout presents a hubspoke key-fetch quest to frame progression, and offers players a choice of tackling either the western or eastern annexes first, before climbing the guard tower and finishing up in the valley to the north. The different wings feel somewhat disconnected thematically and conceptually, an impression underscored by there being no particularly pronounced concept or gimmick to differentiate them from each other, beyond the varying texture schemes. The initial choice is also not particularly meaningful from a strategy standpoint, since both of the first two annexes are designed to function in a vacuum, and thus kit you out in more or less identical fashion. The overall impression (for me) is thus that the whole presentation seems a mite more genuinely old-fashioned or unpolished abstractness, in contrast to the subtle but rather deliberate sense of surreality permeating most of Darkwave's other maps.

 

There is a very pronounced sense of symmetry to the proceedings here, not entirely to the map's favor. Both of the two side areas present straight up fights against large groups of enemies, tasking you with holding your position in the face of a demonic charge, and then cleaning out a greater or lesser number of perched snipers to conclude, with an arch-vile incursion at some point in the mix. This is fine and dandy for what it is, but something seems a mite 'off' when you find yourself for all practical intents and purposes fighting the same meaty fight twice in order to progress. Even the preambles in the main hub (arch-vile hiding in a crevice with imps as shields, etc.) and the appearance of 'secret' cyberdemons is mirrored, though there is some welcome asymmetry in that the cyb in the western annex can be effectively weaponized against the denizens therein with a little bit of foreknowledge.

 

The arch-vile guardtower, by contrast, is quite imaginative, and a devilish way of staging some hair-rising pincers scenarios, though it's quite easy to defuse by stonewalling key chokepoints with your BFG or even your SSG if you know what's coming. The finale, by contrast, doubles down on a very simple concept--huge waves of hell nobles with cyberdemons floating around in them like marshmallows in Doomguy's morning bowl of Lucky Charms--and relies on the awe factor of "I can't believe there are really this many of them" to make its point. Depending on how well you understand the BFG's somewhat esoteric weapon mechanics, this can either take the form of a desperate "YOU SHALL NOT PASS!!1" scenario or, alternatively, read somewhat like using a Weed-Whacker to trim the verge. Far from high art, certainly, to make an understatement, though as it's something of a one-off and possesses some cinematic qualities I don't think it does the map a disservice, and feels like it's more deliberately designed than the sort of 'whatever' group fights in the side annexes, in spite of being very simple and rather hamfisted.

 

I find myself pondering: why is the last phalanx of cyberdemons, with their attached regiment of Barons--easily the single strongest enemy force in the map--all facing towards the coffin where Doomguy rides the bullet-train to the netherworld, rather than facing towards the mouth of the valley, where the enemy will approach from? Some kind of time-paradox thing, a guard force to prevent a prophesied Resurgence? :D

 

(yes, I know it's probably just because Darkwave likes to let you see what you're up against before beginning battle, but don't spoil my fun!)

[rehelekretep]

map22 fda

i dont know why, but this map feels like less than a sum of its parts. i think the small, jagged arenas might have something to do with it. with only the void surrounding these slightly constrained areas, they almost feel smaller, when compared with other maps with a more scenic backdrop.

the 'finale' is desperately undercooked; the arena is too small, and too easy to retreat back to the opening lift, with the geometry (long and thin, semi-circle safety zone) encouraging it. plus, you can just leave if you want to.

the 2 cyberdemon approach after picking up the RK is quite fun, but the opening arena's slopes and steppes mean that in prboom its desperately slidey and awkward, making it feel less about picking off the cybers and more about avoiding ice patches that will path you into a rocket.

one of my least favourite since the midway point.

Edited May 9, 2017 by rehelekretep

[Demon of the Well]

It lives! cont'd, cont'd

 

Map 21 -- Resurrection - 104% Kills / 100% Secrets

Part of an ever-growing tradition of m21 fistfight maps (thx Erik), "Resurrection" is distinguished by its playful narrative conceit of having Doomguy awaken in a remote backwater of Hell and beginning his journey towards the deeper reaches by traversing the decayed, corrupted remains of what appears to be the old Hangar from Phobos, as impossible as it seems. As I've said before, I'm generally not a fan of IWAD homagery, but I reckon this one gets a pass since it doesn't really look, play or feel anything like the original, while yet successfully evoking blood(y) memories shared by essentially all Doomers. What really helps the presentation, I think, is the unhurried delivery--it's not immediately obvious you're seeing the Hangar at first even though the hints are certainly there, and once it finally dawns on you the impression of just how unkind time has been to the old place really hits home...place is a mess. On that point, I definitely agree with rdwpa's observation that this looks a lot like the middle stretch of Unholy Realms (where Joshy has a guest map, incidentally), contrasting dark, filthy/rusty metal and composite with queasy splashes of saturate color, here mostly meaty reds and pinks. Also reminds me quite a bit of UAC Ultra, in that regard, albeit gorier. The opening graveyard is also strikingly reminiscent of the one from Spaghne's "Afterlife" map in CC1, though since this is not mentioned in the textfile in any way it's apparently just a weird coincidence.

 

As these m21 Tyson affairs go, this one runs a little longer than usual, which is balanced by its tack of only ever pitting you against a scant handful of creatures at any one time. You receive basic firearms from the outset, notably, and so it's a matter of necessary ammo budgeting vs. the sturdy nature of many of your foes rather than simply not possessing any options other than fisticuffs/melee that stages and enforces the Tyson gimmick. This means that it's easier for the map to use stiffer opposition from the outset (i.e. three arch-viles appearing in the opening couple of minutes) while maintaining a reasonable balance, which also has the side effect of allowing you a progressively more leisurely time later on, where you can use ballistic attacks more freely in any situation which makes you uncomfortable, by accepting due diligence and using the fist where feasible, 'feasible' being the majority of encounters in this case (though I would agree with the observation that the chainsaw is a safer anti-caco weapon, same diff).

 

Again, if you've never faced this type of map before, it's understandable to feel somewhat intimidated and bewildered, but as genre standards go this is really pretty tame, honestly, and gives you a lot of margin for error by dint of Joshy's placement of additional 'zerk packs to act as full heals at various stages of progression. Fights using the more powerful monsters are not necessarily as dangerous as they might initially seem if you have the know-how to exploit the environment, as is the case with the rather weird vile tagteam fight moments after mapstart (just use the narrow stairways for some hit-and-run attacks). Much of the midgame stuff is more conventional, and largely unremarkable; it's really the E1M1 nostalgia trip that drives this map, rather than the gameplay per se, I think. I do like the use of explosive barrels in various places as a bit of flavor, as punching them at your foes is one of the game's more satisfying attack techniques, IMO. Yet again the exit sequence is a little janky, though I do like that this one at least gives the PCorf vile a good chance to revive the Baron, potentially requiring some last minute improvisation.

 

Map 22 -- Dead Echo - 101% Kills / 100% Secrets

Ah, quite like this one, pleasant memories here. Some things had slipped from mind since I last played, however, contributing to an interesting experience I've never had before: I forgot about the SSG being more or less freely accessible from one of the little votive shrines under the overhang on the floating island's west side (I think I must've incorrectly assumed it needed a key, like the other two weapons there do), and so I ended up completing the RSK leg without the staple weapon. It was fun, too! Suffice to say, the pump-action shotgun and chaingun are not sufficient to hold off some of the nastier assaults involved in the thickly-layered series of traps packed into the red skull's building, leaving the berserk fist (acquired at mapstart) as my strongest source of damage output. I had no choice but to leverage it in beating back the Baron and his gang of skeletons at point-blank range shortly after being sealed upstairs, and again to soften up the viles guarding the lion-switch, locked in a desperate dance to keep them from rounding the last corner. Thrilling! The imp/mancubus traps also proved eminently doable with just the standard shotgun, though of course much tighter maneuvering was required to slip between bodies in the congested space. Anyway, always a pleasant surprise to find that a map which one thinks one knows can show new facets over time, lending a familiar experience an air of the novel.

 

Getting back on track with standard progression following my short RSK adventure, I'm again struck by how nicely paced and conducted the level is, packing a rapidfire series of pitched battles into a compact playspace which are equally entertaining encountered in a discrete sequence (i.e. using wooden pillars for cover vs. viles emerging from the blood-caves) or merged into a larger fracas, as in getting all three cyberdemons involved by chaining the red lock/blue lock encounters together. The majority of the fights being keyed to trap-reveals rather than purely incidental/ambient is precisely what I think makes the map work so well both as a battle engagement and as a setting--it seems like enemies are constantly popping out of the woodwork (stonework, excuse me) from places both obvious and unlikely (blood-cave insurgents vs. the HKs stuffed into the porch-beams of the soulsphere room), such that every action seems to invite an incremental escalation of violence, making for heated action from beginning to end. Well.....almost. I would agree with the sentiment that the finale is maybe a little too easily suppressed than it feels like it ought to be (and shame on you if you retreat to the lift just because you're allowed to, it's not even remotely necessary or particularly efficient to do so), more of a downstep in escalation rather than the expected uptic, which could've been so effective following on the heels of the brief pause in the action after passing through the blue-locked gatehouse.

 

Aesthetically, she's a looker, another of Darkwave's most thematically/materially cohesive offerings in the set, depicting a traditional gothic-infernal charnel house crouched on an island of bleeding stone, suspended in an atypical vivid crimson void. It's a small map, as aforesaid, but packed with distinct visual/structural landmarks around which different phases of the action revolve, like the set of any good B-horror film. The playspace gradually expands and changes in small but significant ways at various points in progression, making it seem more like a fleshed-out location than a collection of backdrops for fights; being so trap-heavy by design, almost every inch of its space is necessarily traversible by player and monsters alike, and there's something satisfying in the way most of the violence seems to seep out from the periphery to rest in the central connecting space, which is inevitably blanketed in corpses before you're through. Also: "Sign of Evil." <3!

 

Unnecessarily kid-glovesy finale aside, this one's probably one of my top picks from the set, honestly.

 

Map 23 -- Poison Ivy II - 100% Kills / No secrets

This nasty mother is, perhaps understandably, one of the mapset's most infamous maps. Thematically referencing similarly infamous levels from Scythe II, "Poison Ivy II" is the second in a signature series of Joshymaps, all focused on heavy area-denial set in pernicious vinecrowned temple environments, which has continued in some form into the present day, most recently being referenced in Darkwave0000's own guest map for Resurgence. If I have my trivia correct, I believe that "Fireking Says No Cheating" from BTSX E2 was also conceived and designed as part of the Poison Ivy series (and it certainly looks and plays the part) before being retitled to fit BTSX's quirky mapname conventions.

 

In practice it's quite a lot like "Pyramid of Death" from earlier, though this one takes itself a lot more seriously (as it should) and requires more in the way of a real plan for survival, despite fielding only a small fraction of the monstercount from m32. The driving force behind the whole short but brutal experience is the extremely hostile mapstart scenario, where you are immediately under lethal threat and have no readily available safe space from which to begin turning the tide--a seemingly insurmountable situation. Of course it's not, though; it's just that you can't approach this as a conventional fight (no matter how good you are) and expect to fare well. Instead, you've got to use your brain a bit, outwitting the highly volatile setup in order to gain basic advantages that more conventional map types would simply give to you.

 

As I see it, there are two basic strategies to choose from to get you started: you can either slip past the cyberdemon guarding the small room just to your right from the starting position, or you can trick the spiderdemon nesting in the eastern chamber in order to slip past her. The former approach, which requires you stir up infighting while sticking around in the extremely hostile area around the central panopticon, has the advantage of quickly granting you most of your arsenal (which in turns affords extra options for a more conventional clear of the initial inhabitants), but requires you to slip back out past cybie while also avoiding being splattered by his buddy in the tower, which is much easier said than done. The latter approach requires some more complex pathing and some rather fiddly and not entirely reliable gambits based on getting the spider distracted long enough for the slow exits out of her chamber to open (dropping directly into the radsuit and SSGing away specters while hoping to incite the cacos against her is most realistic, though I've actually had her aggro on the cyber in the panopticon before as well by guiding his rocket to just the right place), but has the benefit of netting you the BFG and access to the YSK, which firmly places initiative back in your hands.

 

Later stages are far less dramatic, and your nascent armament combined with some smart positional play and accrued advantages from having an efficient plan (i.e. the panopticon cyber will handily neutralize almost all of the later viles if you had the presence of mind not to waste ammo on him earlier on) make for a fairly routine clear to close out the map (its short length a blessing in this case), though the viles + mancs by the yellow switch are indeed a royal fucking pain in the ass that I simply feel should've been designed a little differently.

 

What I've described here in a few lines of text, of course, realistically takes a lot of experimentation and improvisation and simple trial-and-error to develop. It takes a lot of bloodshed (and, realistically, peltshed) to work out initially, but it's quite satisfying when a workable plan starts coming together, and by the level's later stages it's you that is firmly in the driver's seat, rather than the legions of hellspawn. That's the draw of this type of map, and for some it will inevitably be so far outside of accepted comfort zones that it can only leave bitterest memories in its wake. C'est la vie. For my part, I'm glad that there's room in the mapping landscape for maps which categorically refuse to be your 'Safe Space' (or mine, for that matter), and I do hope there's another Poison Ivy sequel somewhere in our collective future.

Edited April 24, 2017 by Demon of the Well

[NecrumWarrior]

MAP23 is a big heaping pile of NOPE! I don't even know where to start, man.

[Nine Inch Heels]

1 minute ago, NecrumWarrior said:

I don't even know where to start, man.

That's kind of like the point of that map, I'd argue. ;-)

EDIT: Truth be told, I am not too fond of this poison ivy trope either, but once you know what's where you can start planning your way. But yeah, it's unwelcoming.

Edited April 24, 2017 by Nine Inch Heels

[NecrumWarrior]

1 minute ago, Nine Inch Heels said:

That's kind of like the point of that map, I'd argue. ;-)

It probably is. So far no one has posted a video or demo for this one so I think I'll just hold off on it for now and see if anything turn up that I can try to learn from.

[Nine Inch Heels]

19 minutes ago, NecrumWarrior said:

It probably is. So far no one has posted a video or demo for this one so I think I'll just hold off on it for now and see if anything turn up that I can try to learn from.

To get you started:

trythis.zip

(GZdoom 2.4)

Should work pretty consistently...

 

*meow*

Edited April 24, 2017 by Nine Inch Heels

[NecrumWarrior]

1 hour ago, Nine Inch Heels said:

To get you started:

trythis.zip

(GZdoom 2.4)

Should work pretty consistently...

 

*meow*

That, indeed, helped me to get a foothold in the map. Thank you. It still took a few tries lol.