Does anyone actually like playing on Nightmare?

[Cruduxy Pegg]

Nightmare is a lot of fun on Doom1 (except episode 4 for a very obvious reason) and Doom 2 when you know what you are doing. Although I dislike that monsters become stupid as fuck on it (if they only got fast move speed it might be more fun for everyone trying it). Heretic on Skill 5 feels like the default difficulty. I didn't bother playing hexen on skill 5 because all the annoying shit that uses projectiles already feels like they have +fast on UV.

 

Gotta mention Blood on skill 5. God is that thing extremely unforgiving! Some traps will oneshot you in less than 1 second if you aren't careful as shit! Opposite of how Nightmare forces you to speed run.

Edited May 10, 2017 by Pegg

[Aggs]

I usually play it for the novelty aspect. I'll get completely rocked by zombiemen, chuckle to myself and then start over on UV.

[leodoom85]

1 hour ago, Uncle 80 said:

I played through all of Doom 1.2 (the first three episodes) on Nightmare! waaay back, but it included a lot of saving :P In Doom 2, I never got past "Underhalls" either. -Fast or -Respawn one at a time is more than enough if the base games are too easy. Both simultaneously are too much.

I should try playing Nightmare in Doom because I have better skills now, probably will die a lot but f*** it :D

[Nevander]

In serious non-speedrunning play, I bet one key is to not try to kill every single enemy since they will respawn eventually. Instead, only focus on the biggest problems like Shotgunners and such. Dodge everything else and memorize powerup locations and the safest way through areas.

[Cruduxy Pegg]

Map02 and Map03 don't help being some of the hardest ones as well. Those zombies are extremely merciless at times.

[ShoDemo]

55 minutes ago, leodoom85 said:

I should try playing Nightmare in Doom because I have better skills now, probably will die a lot but f*** it :D

That's the spirit! :)

[leodoom85]

Hitscanners are the real bitch in Nightmare...

[Cruduxy Pegg]

Nightmare teaches you hitscan is way scarier than projectiles even when it does less damage the hard way :P.

[Spectre01]

I have never played on Nightmare actually but I did try UV -fast for the first 20 maps of Scythe, as recommended by Alm in the text file. Have to say I prefer the regular gameplay that doesn't turn every monster into a turret which fires on repeat like a 'Tron.

[galileo31dos01]

I've tried Hangar on Nightmare a few months ago... I laughed a lot with my uncountable deaths. So no, I don't like it, yet, I'm still starting to choose UV for new (that I've never played) wads. 

[Tracer]

Seeing as nightmare was made just to fuck with John Romero during the later stages of testing before release...it makes sense that it is bullshit.  It was never even intended to be completable.  That would explain why it's so annoying.  I hate nightmare.  I'll just play Ultra Violence with fast monsters.

[baja blast rd.]

Quick 'walkthrough' for Underhalls. It's an easy map to exit reliably on NM in casual play with proper strategies (and I'm ignoring the glide and stuff). There are basically three stages: everything from the start to the SSG, from there to the RK, and then the dark tunnels part.

 

Stage one is the easiest. First, line yourself up with the troopers before alerting them, so you aren't exposed to a peashooter firing squad. (This is a useful and common non-NM tactic with ground-based hitscanner rows too.) Save the medkit right near the start for later, it might be useful. On the SSG path, you can also use the fast door to shield yourself from monsters behind it, which has the benefit of not exposing you to shots from the monsters along the main path as doorcamping might, but mistakes at this stage aren't really so punishing, because there is a lot of health, and simple camping will do too. 

 

Stage two is probably the most dangerous. First thing's first: the SSG is not really the primary weapon in this map. It's slow, and on NM that is not good, so we're mostly working with the SG. Ideally you should have lots of health coming into this stage, which will serve as a buffer for any mistakes.  The sergeant below in the grass is too far away for autoaim in his initial position, but he can still shoot you, so alert him first by sniping at the blue armor guardians and then move over to pick him off. When you open the blue armor secret, have the SSG ready to shoot at whatever might be still behind it. Likewise, shoot the SSG immediately after you teleport. Pick up that medkit that you smartly saved. ;) 

 

Stage three looks scary but isn't so bad, really. You can actually work at a more leisurely pace if you want, because most of the respawning monsters in the hallway are dinky troopers, and now you have a blue armor. The famous 'stuck sergeant' can actually shoot you on NM despite being stuck, which lends credence to NM being the intended difficulty! Shoot all the barrels with the single shotgun before taking the drop. Important: a sergeant might respawn above, but you are safe from fire as long as you hug the wall of the hole that you dropped through. This is where the SSG gets some use. Don't let that pinky eat you. Grab the BK, clear out the next room with the SSG (make sure to get rid of barrels too), and you're basically done at this point. You can clean out the exit room methodically, if you want, a true rush for the exit switch after killing just two or three sergeants can be dangerous unless you are very healthy, because NM sergeants will fire immediately and can tag you with a 35%+ HP reduction. 

 

Here is a video. This isn't perfect as far as damage avoidance goes, but you have a lot of cushion for error. 

 

 

[leodoom85]

Going little by little is a good strategy for that map, but you must know the monster placement at all costs...

[ReX]

I'd have to say that NM is really not for the average DooM player (which I am), or for someone with little patience. To me, it felt like I was trying to knock a nail into a wall with my head. Eventually, I suppose, the nail would have been hammered in (read: I'd have figured out the optimal path to reach a map's exit). But the repetition of replaying a map, over and over again, was something I never enjoyed. Therefore, very early on, I gave up on NM.

 

Moreover, there have been so many fine community-created mods, that I never felt the need to play anything on NM just to extend its replay value.

[DoctorGenesis]

Nightmare is alright, E1M1 and MAP01 are easy for me... some of the later levels are too hard, but like others said you need to be patient.

[Gifty]

I was able to do all of Knee Deep in the Dead on nightmare UNTIL e1m7, and that one really stumped me. I really liked it, though; NM forces you to rethink your whole approach to the levels, which is really refreshing after playing them for 10+ years.

Edited May 11, 2017 by Gifty

[KVELLER]

22 hours ago, cyan0s1s said:

 

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The second D'Sparil fight is almost impossible on skill 5 though.

 

Indeed. It looks like a first-person bullet hell :P

[nxGangrel]

I never play on nightmare. But since every level in Ultimate Doom is a fraggin' cake walk, I'm going to start trying nightmare playthroughs and test my abilities on the iwad.

[ReX]

1 hour ago, nxGangGirl said:

... every level in Ultimate Doom is a fraggin' cake walk....

I didn't think that Episode 4 (Thy Flesh Consumed) was easy at all. In fact, the difficulty level was a huge leap upwards from Episodes 1-3. Likewise, I expect you'll find that NM is a big step up from UV in terms of difficulty. Still, if you can enjoy the experience, more power to you.

[Lila Feuer]

Only the first, second and sixth maps were hard.

[Cruduxy Pegg]

Episode 4 is fine in continuous play. It is annoying as shit from pistol start though. I find it more fun to play nightmare pistol starts on other Iwads than pistol start e4m3 and e4m6.

 

D'sparil's fight on skill 5 isn't hard even on wand start. Just needs using the bow to kill the serpent then kill D'sparil with the other weapons, (4,5 and 6. No 7 cuz wand start) Bow's dps is shit and will get you swarmed + you don't want to get near D'sparil and risk getting blasted by him or the disciples.

[PanterD2S]

Nah is just too freakin hard - i rather watch Zeromaster doing this. :)

Do you know his collection of how to really enjoy nightmare ? One of the best videos ever -  If you like what you see, I guess you might like Nighmare as well.... ._.

 

Spoiler

 

wtf cares about nightmare anyway??, just saw e2m8 Pacifist, ..jeeesusfc!  And I already Dream about that TAS Archvile-Rocket jumping in 29, Barrelrocketjumping in 23...so much insane stuff still to discover, and still new ideas to find.  already think about installing this game ..

 

Quote

"In serious non-speedrunning play,"

ok i see, some seriousness maybe needed ..

 

1. there is no "serious non speedrunning play" - thats called "Casual" then ;)

2. If you dont cross your own route, or the map is done withhin about 15s anyway the complete respawn stuff wont be a problem at all. (feels like 50%-90% of all maps cover this already, when I watch you guys)

3. If you want to play a certain task on nm - get the quickest nm run from Zerom ..erm the Archive, best set up on a second screen, or brand it someway into your brain and then JUST copy that. By hand I mean - all the moves, routes, waypoints, little dances, tactics whatever - just do the same. Doesnt need to be 100% identical, just make sure to get out at least with the same times...it MAY take a while ok, - and not sure if this will be best described as "like" anymore...

4. THEN improve by 1 sec. - et voila - (notice the "little steps" are important) new WR! :)   

Life is all Adaptation,  Copy first then Improve. Or leave the worm and go home!

 

okok...post might still contain traces of nuts or sarcasm ..but...Woohoo my upload is finally done..  brb^^

 

.

.

 

" I'll just play Ultra Violence with fast monsters. "

Dont forget the double ammo in NM! And the faster you go the less you need.

Similar to electric cars - the more you break the further they go  :D

 

...and last but not least really really serious:

- I remember people saying "for a start map 01 and 02 is already really really nice, quite far and lots of mindwork done then already" - and when you make it up to map 4  youre basically "through worst" concerning the learning curve - next about 18 maps only need exact knowledge of what to do and where to go- stufflikethat.

 

So Yes - I think some people might like Nightmare. To challenge themself and/or compete with others at a very high if not highest possible and surely NON Casual Level anymore.

So serious non serious speedrunning could exist ok - maybe do a  collection of all single maps in nm, or simply really start to work on reaching the end of 2 or 4 - if you like to challenge yourself you will like the action as well even if it means bazillion of deaths ;)

 

 

 

OR:   Get a life!  lots of stuff to like there too I heard.. ^

 

 

 

 

Edited May 13, 2017 by PanterD2S

[nxGangrel]

Well so far I've made it up to E1M5. Probably just gonna stop there. It was fun for a few minutes xD

[Rosh Fragger]

Nightmare is more playable in multiplayer. More players and ammunition respawns.

[Cruduxy Pegg]

I've seen nightmare survival servers on zandronum a few times. People who didn't try nightmare before get extremely overwhelmed while the few who do try to carry the team and probably die to the increased monster count.

[Woolie Wool]

On 5/10/2017 at 8:52 AM, Battle_Kirby said:

Ehhh... Usually, when I make my maps, I make sure to test it out on ALL difficulties, including Nightmare! Nightmare can pay off in some weird fetishist way I believe.

 

Per instance, once I made a "zombie invasion" map, composed of 3000 pinkies rushing in houses, stables, chapels, keeps, cars, trucks, biting down every custom marine they can find. I made like two more (they will never be released because I never bother replacing the vanilla textures), and the Nightmare! mode gives a certain edge to it.

 

Like, on any other difficulty, if one is patient, the entire "zombie" army could be eliminated slaugther map style. Plus pinkies aren't that quick and the player is usually twice as fast, so they could be outrunned instantly. However, on Nightmare! mode, its a fucking carnage. Pinkies rush in like sandstorms, and by the time you fire and reload a supershotgun, you're done for. You could hardly outrun them. If you made a mistake, you're dinner.

 

Of course, pinkies cannot ever be eliminated, so no hope of reaching for that juicy 100%, and getting to the exit becomes twice a challenge.

 

However, the advantage of custom marines on Nightmare! difficulty is: quicker fire rate (like, fuck,a plasmaneer squad can clean out a hallway in a matter of seconds), quicker reaction time (usually marines lollygag around before taking another shot or spray, n! marines shoot on sight, no, sense), and in general, better pathfinding (being quick on reacting usually makes one so), so having a platoon of n! marines ARE of major help. Yeah, you could die if you got in front of them, but still, having artillery support by rocketeers on pillars can be better than being on your own.

Can you post a video of this?

[Rathori]

I beat Doom 1 (Thy Flesh Consumed excluded, I barely managed to savescum through E4M1 and that's it) on NM because I felt ashamed for not having done it. It took some preparation, though: I beat every map's par time first, thus finding the routes that would require minimal time to complete the level, I played each episode continuously, and I also used save games. They were pretty much only useful on E1M3 & E1M6, these are the once I'm most likely to die at. I don't remember dying in E2 and E3 at all, but I might be remembering it wrong. Anyway, these two are way easier due to very small amount of hitscanners, compared to E1. I never managed to beat E1 saveless (can't get through the final fight on E1M6), and I see no point in trying E2 & E3 before I beat that.

 

But no, I don't really like playing on Nightmare!. For me, there's too much pressure for it to be enjoyable due to respawns, although, I guess, it sort of makes more sense: hell sending more and more minions to take you down rather than waiting patiently for you to slaughter your way into its heart and destroy it too. Anyway, playing on NM! feels like doing a slow speedrun, and that's work, not fun.

 

Maybe I should try UV -fast, but I'm quite happy as it is playing hard WADs instead.

[PanterD2S]

Quote

it sort of makes more sense: hell sending more and more minions to take you down

yea good point,  its kinda "fairer" on a certain rational level

- anyone knows Doom - the Board Game? someone too there plays the hell trying to kill the players ;)

 

 

PS: just watching the map02 instructional vid from above - classy slow (and therefore rather safe) approach. Maybe ignore what happens at SSG door, and the punching in the end. But thats all doable without any skills withhin a shorter time - then I guess watch some zeromaster and start whining^^  or try to get further without being demotivated by that piece of art ;)

Again I believe if you manage first 4 maps in a row (more than once) youre already through worst of it - then comes tons of maps you just need to know the route basically....

Edited May 16, 2017 by PanterD2S

[CzechMate29200]

TBH, no matter what difficulty you play Doom on, you feel like a total BADASS! 

 

I like Nightmare, though i don't play it much. I often play it again when I see ZeroMasters NM speedruns, then I say to myself "ah shit, I can do this...". and fail miserably...i do like it though, because no matter how good you think you are, you always have Nightmare there to remind you that you suck...

 

I am proud to say that Ive beaten MAP01 and MAP02 of Plutonia on NM! :D

[idbeholdME]

Given that I despise speedrunning in general, I have to say no. I like a tough but fair challenge (hence why I always play UV -fast) and infinitely respawning enemies doesn't classify as that. Especially when I have to 100% kills/secret every map, otherwise I wouldn't have played the map to its full extent, which would bother me.

 

Nightmare = speedrunner's wet dream, not a difficulty.

 

It would have been perfect if they didn't put in the ridiculous respawning.