Doom 1 or 2?

[joe-ilya]

Doom is made so every monster will be hard to kill.
Doom II and Ultimate Doom are made for huge chunks of killing.

[EvilNed]

Eris Falling said:

That's twice. Do I get the third for post-hunting? :D


To expand on my post, it just seems odd to me. I never played E3M1 until last year, but I can imagine the scenario of playing it 20 years ago. Pressing that switch, rising up slowly - which itself would instil an "oh shit" into the mind of the player, since they would have no idea what was happening - and then "you find yourself under that blood red sky which seemingly went on forever. This was hell, and it was glorious," and it was the first one ever, to be followed by many.
Even if you dislike the map, and wish it would die in hell not exist, it seems rather idiosyncratic (thesaurus! :D) to call it uninspired

Disagreed. It's an ill-designed map compared to the rest of Doom. It looks and plays like crap. As with E2M1 in my opinion.

[Tristan]

EvilNed said:

Disagreed. It's an ill-designed map compared to the rest of Doom. It looks and plays like crap. As with E2M1 in my opinion.

I've found an alternative definition for "uninspired," which is basically "dull." Perhaps this is what you meant. I hope it is. When I think "uninspired," I think of it as "deficient in originality or creativity; lacking powers of invention," and I think, if that definition of uninspired is applied to an original Doom level, that's just plain wrong.

Having familiarised myself a bit more with the PC levels, I'm still not a fan of E3. M6 remains my favourite, and M1, M2 and M8 are okay, but I really hate M3, 4 and especially 7. Oh god, E3M7. I have never liked it, but I cannot deny that it's actually a well designed level, and inevitably getting lost on the PSX version with the ambient music, and the firesky burning overhead...I've never really looked at Limbo that way. I guess I kinda like and dislike it at the same time.
What was I typing again?

[Dragonsbrethren]

I love E3M3 just for the fact that it looks like it was literally in the middle of being retextured when the game shipped. It's not a bad map, either, one of Hall's better ones, has a decent amount of height variation and interconnectivity. Probably the biggest letdown is that the blue key is completely out of the way unless you take the center path. If you could get to the center from the area with the blue door it wouldn't really matter, but as it is you've got to backtrack if you don't go that way first. Gives you an excuse to explore the other path, though.

[EvilNed]

Eris Falling said:

I've found an alternative definition for "uninspired," which is basically "dull." Perhaps this is what you meant. I hope it is. When I think "uninspired," I think of it as "deficient in originality or creativity; lacking powers of invention," and I think, if that definition of uninspired is applied to an original Doom level, that's just plain wrong.

Dull is another word I'd use, Yes. But you can tell that some maps were simply not given the same love as others. Hence: Uninspired.

[Avoozl]

I don't think it's so much that they didn't get as much love as others but more that they didn't think too much about how well they were making the particular maps compared to the other maps.

[Hypnotoad]

With the exception of episode 1, Doom 2 overwhelmingly has better level design than Doom 1. I really cannot understand how people can think otherwise, other than them being stuck in nostalgia.

[Hypnotoad]

Touchdown said:
its levels look like actual places you'd expect from moon bases / Hell.

[Clonehunter]

Da Werecat said:

It has a courtyard and a gate - very appropriate. It's also a little exhausting for an inexperienced player because of the ammo shortage, even despite its length. It sorta gives you an "it's gonna be tough" impression about the episode without scaring you away.

Yah, alright, I can understand that. I guess it's just that now days, it doesn't seem like much. It was visually interesting though.

[Luke Dacote]

Jroc said:

With the exception of episode 1, Doom 2 overwhelmingly has better level design than Doom 1. I really cannot understand how people can think otherwise, other than them being stuck in nostalgia.

I know many love Doom 2 for being more action packed but I just prefer the more even pace of the original. I find the layout and length of the maps better in Doom 1 plus I find it more satisfying to build up an arsenal since each episode feels distinctive. With Doom 2, you can basically just rely on the SSG, rocket launcher and BFG for the whole game. And the main reason why the SSG and the BFG are so effective in Doom 2 is due to the large wave of enemies that the game keeps throwing at you. Doom 1 just felt more strategic and logical. You get a sense the developers had a clear idea in their heads when designing the levels rather than just throwing in a ton of enemies in a convoluted map. At least that's how I feel.

[dg93]

Luke Dacote said:

I know many love Doom 2 for being more action packed but I just prefer the more even pace of the original. I find the layout and length of the maps better in Doom 1 plus I find it more satisfying to build up an arsenal since each episode feels distinctive. With Doom 2, you can basically just rely on the SSG, rocket launcher and BFG for the whole game. And the main reason why the SSG and the BFG are so effective in Doom 2 is due to the large wave of enemies that the game keeps throwing at you. Doom 1 just felt more strategic and logical. You get a sense the developers had a clear idea in their heads when designing the levels rather than just throwing in a ton of enemies in a convoluted map. At least that's how I feel.

Doom 2 needed more of a balance between outdoor "open space" levels and military base/UAC labs levels, as seen in Phobos "Knee Deep in the Dead". The Doom 1 was very suspenseful because of the labs settings. I often felt that Doom 2 was "over-the-top" with enemy placement, although I liked the new enemies.

[Avoozl]

doomguy93 said:

UAC labs levels, as seen in Phobos "Knee Deep in the Dead".

But the lab levels were more suited to Doom 1 since it was on Mars, you wouldn't need them as much on earth.

[dg93]

Avoozl said:

But the lab levels were more suited to Doom 1 since it was on Mars, you wouldn't need them as much on earth.

True, Doom 1 was on Mar's Moon base "Phobos." But There could have been some levels that had lab based settings.

[Devalaous]

About Hell Keep, its the worst because its the dullest map of all the official maps (id made or licensed)

The only thing thats good is the opening that people already described. Everything else after that is crap. You have the terrible flat wall. The stupid walk-through-wall (I despise these no matter WHERE in the game it is, breaks all immersion. At least PSX Doom made these walls transparant), and the fact that the gameplay is pretty much just "run down a super narrow corridor killing melee enemies till the end"

Compare to E1M1 and E2M1 which were much longer and had much more exploration and atmosphere. It's so bad it was outright replaced in console ports with a much better map, even though it would have easily fit in with the low-end levels.

[Avoozl]

I don't really find an issue with walk through walls, besides it's supposed to be a surreal sort of thing I guess which fits well with hell levels.

[Devalaous]

Its gameplay for gameplay's sake. Romero used one in E4M6 to hide a secret in a rock wall. At least the PSX version makes them look as you describe, they tend to be ghostly walls fading out of existence. The only time I've liked them was in TNT Map 31, where they were used to primitively simulate people sniping out a window. Even then you generally couldnt walk in there.

[dg93]

To the DMR Team & Participants: http://www.doomworld.com/vb/wads-mods/66475-deathmatch-revival-project-under-new-management-by-dg93/

I am taking over the project management as of 12/6/2013

Please report to my newest thread. Thank you.

-DG93

[codeslicer]

I Prefer Doom 2, but were talking microscopic difference. I like them both almost equally. I like the addition of the Super Shotgun, New monsters and the More Hellish outpost style of levels, Wolfenstein levels, and the bosses.

[Zed]

Doom has a better level design.
Doom II has the Revenant and the Arch-Vile. And the SSG.

Both are good.

[Avoozl]

But Doom 1's better level design doesn't really make up for the lack of monster variety and more vanilla mod possibilities.

[VGA]

Avoozl said:

But Doom 1's better level design doesn't really make up for the lack of monster variety and more vanilla mod possibilities.

Of course it does.

[Surreily]

I think Doom II improved on everything from the original Doom. Bigger levels (though some of them are maybe a bit too big), more monsters, a new gun, new music (although I still prefer Doom's music), and a more challenging game overall. Personally, I prefer Doom II for the increased variety in monsters and the additional weapon.

I do like how the original allows me to jump into any of the three (four with Ultimate Doom) episodes at any time, and how the episode bosses aren't just a massive wall that you shoot, but as I said before, the benefits of Doom II vastly outweigh the flaws (in my opinion).

[purist]

I prefer Doom II. The only things I prefer about Doom is it had better music overall and the episode format is superior to the Doom 2 format for levels. I like the new monsters in Doom II but I have mixed feelings about the SSG. I don't think the level design is better in Doom. Doom II levels are more ambitious so it contains more of the best and worst levels in my opinion. Doom I levels tend to vary between decent to mediocre.

[Drilbur]

I like both, but as a stand alone single player experience, I prefer the first Doom.

Doom has better level design and level flow whereas Doom 2 has a much better variety of demons and of course, the Double Barrel Shotgun.

[printz]

Doom 1 is my favourite; almost always I test my stuff on Doom 1 first, because I like Hangar, Deimos Anomaly, Hell Keep and Hell Beneath much, much more than Entryway, Underhalls and Gantlet, which look boring.

Doom 2 is somewhat tougher and has more height variation in its maps. Unfortunately the design theme is very incoherent there. Highly detailed maps like Inmost Dens don't fit well with stuff like Suburbs. The Sandy Petersen levels dominate the set and are probably the most fun to replay, but overall they decrease Doom 2's quality by mostly being simple slaughtermaps with generous bonuses. Interestingly this isn't a problem in Doom 1, with maps like Command Center, Halls of the Damned and Unholy Cathedral feeling pretty original.

[Inkie]

Doom 1 has the advantage of a better 'episodes' format, but in terms of modding I can't give up the expanded beastiary and texture variety.

[40oz]

Doom's supposed lack of monster variety is kind of a good thing for new (really new) mappers though. I had my wife start designing her first map after I introduced thing placement, and mistakenly loaded it in doom 2 format instead of Doom 1 as I intended. She crowded the starting room with SS Nazis, commander keens, chaingunners and archviles. Needless to say the map was unplayable. I think doom 1 and its fewer things has much more combinations of thing placement that won't essentially make your map completely retarded, provided theres enough ammo and whatever. I guess too many shotgun guys and cyberdemons could result in inescapable death. Doom 2s set up has a lot more failure formulas in comparison.

[Vs1991]

Doom 1 is a great game on it's own. My favorite game of all time.
Doom 2 is alright. New enemies, SSG are cool, but level design is confusing and gimmicky. Best thing is that 90% of the mods are based on it

[Doominator2]

Doom 1 had more atmosphere and the levels felt like real areas that sort of make sense in a hellish/sci-fi environment. Doom 2 I found didn't have that much of atmosphere(except for the Icon of Sin which felt like your death was coming towards you) The new monsters where very cool but also led to frustrating situations (Revenants in tight spaces, Archviles in open spaces annd pain elements all the time) There where alot of levels that felt like they could be real places(especially the city levels) but there where some levels that didn't make sense(Tricks and Traps comes to mind)

[RUSH]

Doom 1 is a far more memorable game. Every area was colorful, genuine, and well balanced. The episode system makes each level feel like you're building up to something epic (the boss fight) - much like the first Castlevania game. Also, the Berserk fist was actually an equal alternative to the pump action shotgun - both of which are completely overshadowed in each successive Doom release.

While I still enjoy the SSG and new monsters, the level design in Doom 2 feels too open ended and confusing (The Factory and city areas come to mind) as well as too gimmicky. Doom 2's music is generally weaker, leaning towards elevator soundtracks instead of metallica styled heavy rockers. Oh, and if you're only going to have one new boss, at least make it awesome - not some wall texture.