Doom 1 or 2?

[dsm]

Shaviro said:

Map02 has great, if not the best of Doom1 + 2, design. My main grudge against Doom1 levels and music is that there are little to no variation. The music consists of two types. Metal and Ambient strings. Doom2's music has much more variation. You need some decent Midi hardware to play it, tho.

You need glasses if your opinion is like that. Map02 looks like shit.
I haven't been able to successfully interpret ANY of the areas within that map. In the first Doom game I can at least come up with ideas to what certain areas could be.
And no, Doom 1 does NOT just have two types of music.
It has three:
* Metal (which as of rule of thumb ALWAYS goes well with action)
* Ambience (which is far more badass than anything in Doom 2 imo)
* Hellish music - dunno what category this goes under, but it's not metal and it's not ambience. What I'm talkin' about here is the like of E3M1, E3M2 and E3M3.

And who cares if a game has variation in genres if they all suck? Those music tracks in Doom 2 that don't sound cheesy are downright boring. Those that doesn't go under these two categories are ok, but then again, these are very few (the music in Wolfenstein and Dead Simple is good - almost every other track suck one way or another).

[Grazza]

Fredrik said:

Don't bother arguing with me about this, I'm a musician, therefore I am automatically and ultimately right.

OK, I won't bother arguing. I'll just disagree.

[Fredrik]

And no, Doom 1 does NOT just have two types of music.
It has three:
* Metal (which as of rule of thumb ALWAYS goes well with action)
* Ambience (which is far more badass than anything in Doom 2 imo)
* Hellish music - dunno what category this goes under, but it's not metal and it's not ambience. What I'm talkin' about here is the like of E3M1, E3M2 and E3M3.

I was generalising a little.

In fact those songs are combinations of metal and ambient.

[Linguica]

dsm said:

Admitted, not all Doom1's levels are good, but not a single of Doom 2's levels (except for the wolfie levels) had good design whatsoever.

....
........
.................
..........................
..................................
............................................
........................................................

[Fletcher`]

fraggle said:

The extra monsters are cool but the levels suck.

Yes

[Spike]

dsm said:

Admitted, not all Doom1's levels are good, but not a single of Doom 2's levels (except for the wolfie levels) had good design whatsoever.

Meh? The Wolfenstein maps are almost identical to the originals - plain, long corridors and wide rooms with no variation in ceiling or floor height, annoying things that pass for secret levels on sheer novelty value.

[Hicks]

the first one is better!

[Fredrik]

Linguica said:

....
........
.................
..........................
..................................
............................................
........................................................

Agreed, the Wolf levels in Doom 2 are the worst of the bunch. Like a giant shiny jewel in the crown of lameness.

Err, enough Doom 2 bashing :P

[Nanami]

Ultimate Doom levels looked more detailed. Doom II seemed like they didn't feel like making the levels. Doom II levels are small in comparison. I especially liked the Episode Four levels. There's a lot of death and pain there with the old monsters. Doom II had the SSG and the new monsters, but they should have spent more time on the levels. That's just my opinion.

Although... I edit levels for Doom II because there's more monsters and the SSG. ;)

[Kid Airbag]

Little Faith said:

(Minor trolling ahead):


I actually think that Evilution owns Doom2.wad

I tend to agree. But then, Evilution was made like four years afteR doom2.wad, so it's kinda hard to compare them. It's like saying Memento Mori sucks just because it's not as technologically advanced as, say, Alien Vendetta.

[myk]

Sorry, can't join. I like them both. DOOM has a better theme, DOOM II has some cool stuff not found in DOOM... I tend to take them both as one package. Whoever plays this game and doesn't have both is a weirdo.

[Nanami]

I have both. And hopefull Final Doom soon. Stupid amazon.com... grr. Slowness = bad

[dsm]

Spike said:

Meh? The Wolfenstein maps are almost identical to the originals - plain, long corridors and wide rooms with no variation in ceiling or floor height, annoying things that pass for secret levels on sheer novelty value.

Exactly! They were the most fun maps to play in Doom 2 - why? Because they allowed you to play Wolfenstein 3d with Doom weapons.

Of course, as actual Doom maps they suck but don't tell anyone heheheh :-P

[Spike]

Erm... Wolfie 3D (map31) had Guards, German Shepards and (i think) SS, while map32 had nothing but Hans Grosse.

The Doom II incarnation has SS, demons, a cyberdemon and, err, hanging Keens.

[Enjay]

My views, for what they are worth...

1 Levels - Doom1
2 Music - Doom1
3 Atmosphere - Doom1
4 Story - Doom1
5 Intermission pics - Doom1
6 Game structure - Doom1
7 Range of Enemies - Doom2
8 How enemies are used in levels (more important than 8) - Doom1
9 Titlepic - Doom2
10 Weapons - Doom2

There are other things too, but 10 will do.

[dsm]

Spike said:

Erm... Wolfie 3D (map31) had Guards, German Shepards and (i think) SS, while map32 had nothing but Hans Grosse.

The Doom II incarnation has SS, demons, a cyberdemon and, err, hanging Keens.

Whatever. It's still got SS guys and...err...hanging Keens ;-)

[Lost Soul]

If this was a GBA comparison, then yes, Doom II is better. Though even there, there is some things that Doom I GBA does better. Sound sampling is a little cleaner in Doom, and the enemies appearance and gravity when they die (only in the case of zombies, and imps) is cleaner.

Now on to the PC which I know damn well what this poll is about.
The Ultimate Doom I feel is MUCH better. There is a better atmposphere, and the levels convinced me I was where I was. In a lab, or a storage facility for instance. In Doom II.. well.. in a starport, what IS the Gantlet anyway? Don't get me wrong. I do very much enjoy that level, it just doesn't seem to work with the whole starport theme. The Focus, is an good example of a level that works with that theme. And the Industiral Zone. WHAT THE HELL IS WITH A CASTLE IN A MOAT OF LAVA HAVE TO DO WITH INDUSTRIALIZATION!? I like that level too, but that part with forever baffle me. The suburbs, while again, being very enjoyable to me, don't feel very suburban.
Downtown felt like a downtown area though. Doom II has it's faults, and it does have a wider range of enemies, and larger levels, and the SSG, and, IMHO, a very appropriate soundtrack. BUT. One of the biggest things to help people enjoy a game more, is to be able to CONVINCE the player that they are where you say they are. That they are in a city. They are in a warehouse. They are in a resarch station. I feel The Ultimate Doom accomplishes this in much greater leaps than Doom II. The hell levels in Doom II also, didn't feel as Hellish as The Ultimate Doom. And as someone said, Doom 64's hell beats them all hands down, but that's a console, not the PC.
Overall, The Ultimate Doom had all it's elements placed in there much better in terms of everything, story, music, levels, etc, etc.
and above all, it conivnced the player more, thus immersing them more into the environment.

Doom II was a fantastic game, I just think that it was not as well thought out as it's origonal. Still a damn fine game though and it is still one of the best.

[mustafa saed]

Hmmm...doom2 or doom? They looked good back in 1995,now they blow goat balls compared to todays wads.

[999cop]

Fredrik said:

Doom 2's music? Eww.

Doom has two music styles, actionfully intense (e.g. E1M1, E1M4, E2M1...) and moodily tense (E1M2, E1M3, E1M5, E1M7, E2M6...).

Doom 2's music is mainly DULL.

Don't bother arguing with me about this, I'm a musician, therefore I am automatically and ultimately right.

I myself find there is somewhat a similarity in the midi of Map01 and Map23 with E1M1's. Also I would say I strongly disagree with how people feel Doom 2's music is crap. There're lots of great songs in Doom 2 as well, such as Map01, Map07, Map09, Map10, & Map23. As Shaviro said, Doom 2 music has more variation; Doom 1 music was consisted of metal and ambient, which was properly great in games, specically to create a fearful atmosphere.

[Spike]

Musically i'm baised ; i prefer the midis derived from metal/grunge tracks (especially Pantera's 'Mouth for War' and 'This Love').

[Nick Perrin]

999cop said:

At Singleplayer: Doom > Doom 2
At Multiplayer: Doom 2 > Doom

I agree.

[Gokuma]

What Enjay said

And I like Doom 1 for both single player and multiplayer.

Doom 2 has some great maps though: map08 Tricks and Traps, map11 Circle of Destruction

[myk]

Enjay said:

My views, for what they are worth...

9 Titlepic - Doom2

No! DOOM II's is flawed even, they forgot to color one of the cybie'a arms... the DOOM titlepic rocks.

[dsm]

Both titlepics rock imo, but the cybie on the Doom 2 titlepic is far too small. It looks like it's the size of a Baron of Hell.

[Lost Soul]

I think Doom II has the FAR better cover painting. The anatomy is actually correct :P. I do like Doom's though.. just.. not as much.

[Chopkinsca]

I didn't really like doom 2's level design, or atmosphere. It seemed like you went everywhere. In doom it seemed like you were getting closer to hell after every level.
I like the level design in TNT the most though, something about it.

but of all dooms, I like Doom64 the most. The effects such as fog and ambeint sounds set a good atmosphere. The main thing is the music, I don't really like the music in the PC versions, too upbeat at times, except for some. Doom64's "music", and the way it changes as you get to the later levels, makes a great experience.

this makes me want to play doom64, which is back at my parents house.

I can't choose between doom 1 or 2 though.

[Fredrik]

dsm said:

Both titlepics rock imo, but the cybie on the Doom 2 titlepic is far too small. It looks like it's the size of a Baron of Hell.

What scale? Mind that a Cyberdemon is only about twice as tall as a human, and the marine is standing in the foreground.

[DooMBoy]

Bah, does it really matter?

[Chopkinsca]

long time ago, I worked it out that a cyberdemon was as tall as a telephone pole.


meh.

[The Ultimate DooMer]

Well, the marine is 56 units tall (let's say he's 6ft, as that sounds about right) and a cyberdemon is 128 units tall, so that makes him about 13-14ft. (which is probably less than a telegraph pole, as they're several times taller than we are)