Doom 1 or 2?

[myk]

I think that I didn't really start appreciating the DOOM games until my appreciation for DOOM II grew. DOOM has the smoothness and thematic nature of E1 against it in comparison, but E1 itself is limited because all it consists of is fights against smaller opponents with basic weapons in maze-like environments.

I think that people who prefer DOOM tend to judge the levels in a more static (if not nostalgic) manner which excludes their action and playability, and concentrates mainly on "architecture".

The ENDOOM in DOOM II says it all about people who don't like it, anyway :p

[DuckReconMajor]

myk said:

The ENDOOM in DOOM II says it all about people who don't like it, anyway :p

ENDOOM also says:
All your friends think DOOM II is great!

so yeah ENDOOM is a liar

[kristus]

Obviously, it's your friends who are liars.

[DuckReconMajor]

Well at least my friends don't tell me I like one game more than another for simple nostalgic value, when I really just find the other one boring.

[Bastet Furry]

Arnt we all friends in this big community? ;)

[Kagemaru_H]

I should have said while we were on the subject of members of the community, that the only thing I hate about this community is that people here seem to associate positivity with stupidity like they're mutually exclusive.

But no real reason to make some inane post stating that I'm leaving and slitting my wrists, just I'll stay here, try to discuss WIP and Doom here, make levels, and if Google fails me, ask for help with stuff.

[Phobus]

Found a nice way to squeeze some more challenge and fun out of Doom E1... play it on NIGHTMARE! In ZDoom with full mouselook and always run on it was just about manageable for me with some saving and plenty of trial and error. Even managed the secret level. E1M8 was nice and easy, whilst most levels involved me getting owned frequently. Certainly won't be trying the latter episodes or any of the other IWADS as the difficulty will quickly absorb far too much of my time (E1 took about 3-4 hours of my life for a 45 minute or so playthrough).

[Guest DILDOMASTER666]

I think Doom 2 is pretty good. Overall, it doesn't feel like a standalone game, but one can say that as Doom 2 has Final Doom, Ultimate Doom has Doom 2. It would have been interesting if Ultimate Doom had never surfaced, and instead we were left with the first three episodes until Doom: Hell on Earth surfaced, an "action packed 3-episode add-on for Doom"...

Get my drift?

On the subject of the levels being abstract, I kind of like the way most of the levels look. They don't really look like any real-life place or setting because they don't have to. Doom 2's design makes me think that those who built the maps (particularly Petersen's maps) didn't waste time adding in petty little details because they'd be damned if you would actually stop to look at them in the middle of a firefight. Doom 2 conveys its atmosphere exactly as it is supposed to and overall the levels are good at being what they are.

I can mostly tell what the locations are supposed to be (MAP13 and MAP15 are city areas, MAP26 is a mine system, MAP05 is... Well, a tunnel system for waste disposal. ;) ), and sure some of the maps are weaker at presenting a coherent theme or a definite location, but frankly, the gameplay is significantly more interesting than Doom 1 to the point where I just don't care how bland some of the areas look.

MAP27 is not a condo. MAP15 has no industrial elements. I have no idea what kind of facility MAP04 is supposed to represent. There is no factory in MAP12. But well, shit, just play the maps and you'll see what I mean.

[RTC_Marine]

I like both games, I do have to say doom episodes 1 to 3 are my favorites.

Episode 4 to me is like doom 1 and doom 2 combined with the darker atmosphere, but that never really grabbed me for some reason, doom 2 doesn't either (only the new monsters and ssg gives me only a slight bump to play it)

Whereas final doom (mostly tnt itself) gave me an urge to play it, I like them, predominantly tnt for its music and somewhat clever level design at the time, despite lack of monsters or new gun, I'd much prefer final doom over doom 2.

[Mr. T]

Kagemaru_H said:

This is a similar reasoning as to why Maddox doesn't update his site every other day - if one just spams posts (like fifty posts per day), there will be a lot more chance that he'll be a shitty poster. If one only posts when he genuinely has something to say, there's less chance of him becoming a shitty poster when he only has one or two quality posts.

So it's all quality over quantity.

Maddox is just so... OLD

[esselfortium]

Mr. T said:

Maddox is just so... OLD

m l y p dood

[eargosedown]

Phobus said:

Found a nice way to squeeze some more challenge and fun out of Doom E1... play it on NIGHTMARE! In ZDoom with full mouselook and always run on it was just about manageable for me with some saving and plenty of trial and error. Even managed the secret level. E1M8 was nice and easy, whilst most levels involved me getting owned frequently. Certainly won't be trying the latter episodes or any of the other IWADS as the difficulty will quickly absorb far too much of my time (E1 took about 3-4 hours of my life for a 45 minute or so playthrough).

Episodes 2 and 3 are much easier on nightmare than E1, as there's less hitscanners.

Also, mouselook really doesn't make the game easier, from my experience, as you have a bigger chance to miss. In a nightmare run, missing once can mean you die.

[Mr. T]

esselfortium said:

m l y p dood

MUCH LIKE YOUR FACE K

[esselfortium]

Mr. T said:

MUCH LIKE YOUR FACE K

Why don't you try facing yourself toward the exit and walking forwards

[Guest DILDOMASTER666]

esselfortium said:

Why don't you try facing yourself toward the exit and walking forwards

I am now going to make a joke about how Mr. T is not smart enough to use the door.

[lupinx-Kassman]

Group hug everyone?

[kristus]

Group chest bump!

[Vermil]

Fisk said:

MAP27 is not a condo. MAP15 has no industrial elements. I have no idea what kind of facility MAP04 is supposed to represent. There is no factory in MAP12. But well, shit, just play the maps and you'll see what I mean.

Well, Sandy stated that E3M5 was suppose to be a temple of some sort in the Doom offical guide (it has interviews with most of ID on their roles on Doom), yet it's called a cathedral in the final game, so it's possible that the level names wern't assigned by the mappers.

[Jodwin]

Vermil said:

Well, Sandy stated that E3M5 was suppose to be a temple of some sort in the Doom offical guide (it has interviews with most of ID on their roles on Doom), yet it's called a cathedral in the final game, so it's possible that the level names wern't assigned by the mappers.

I guess there's a huge conceptual difference between a temple and a cathedral...both of them being places of worship and religious practices and all...

Besides, cathedral just sounds better.

[printz]

esselfortium said:

Why don't you try facing yourself toward the exit and walking forwards

Your a fan of maddox?

kristus said:

Group chest bump!

I don't want to injure someone with my ribs.

[Phobus]

eargosedown said:

Episodes 2 and 3 are much easier on nightmare than E1, as there's less hitscanners.

Also, mouselook really doesn't make the game easier, from my experience, as you have a bigger chance to miss. In a nightmare run, missing once can mean you die.

Mouselook allows me to turn faster and with more precision, so it makes it easier for me at the least. Your points on E2 and E3 have got me considering trying a run, as hitscanners were a large part of the difficulty I faced on E1 (being swamped by Demons when I didn't expect it was the other), and E1M8, which notably has no hitscanners, was indeed a cakewalk.

[scalliano]

I would say to those who say mouselook ruins MAP30:

You're playing Doom 2 in a source port. You can just give Romero a shitload more health. No one will hate you for it ;)

[Phml]

Also, mouselook really doesn't make the game easier, from my experience, as you have a bigger chance to miss. In a nightmare run, missing once can mean you die.

Using mouselook doesn't imply turning autoaim off, but if you do turn it off I wouldn't say you have a bigger chance to miss, it's player dependant. People with good aiming skills will be able to hit what they want at all times and never have to worry about that rocket they're aiming at a far away cacodemon hitting a spectre 64 units below them and hurting themselves in the process.

To be honest, I have poor aim and even then mouselook + autoaim off makes the game vastly easier in most situations for me. Sure, there's the occasional time where having autoaim on would have been nice in some spots with large height differences, but compared to the help it provides anywhere else, it's certainly a plus. Just being able to watch over or under you to avoid death by infinitely tall monsters, for example, is priceless.

[DuckReconMajor]

Yeah, I could never explain it, but I always felt I play better with mouselook.

That said, I never use it unless I'm playing online or a wad calls for it.

[Kagemaru_H]

Phml said:

Using mouselook doesn't imply turning autoaim off, but if you do turn it off I wouldn't say you have a bigger chance to miss, it's player dependant. People with good aiming skills will be able to hit what they want at all times and never have to worry about that rocket they're aiming at a far away cacodemon hitting a spectre 64 units below them and hurting themselves in the process.

To be honest, I have poor aim and even then mouselook + autoaim off makes the game vastly easier in most situations for me. Sure, there's the occasional time where having autoaim on would have been nice in some spots with large height differences, but compared to the help it provides anywhere else, it's certainly a plus. Just being able to watch over or under you to avoid death by infinitely tall monsters, for example, is priceless.

Mouselook is truly a godsend in the FPS genre.

[baronofheck82]

RTC_Marine said:

I like both games, I do have to say doom episodes 1 to 3 are my favorites.

Episode 4 to me is like doom 1 and doom 2 combined with the darker atmosphere, but that never really grabbed me for some reason, doom 2 doesn't either (only the new monsters and ssg gives me only a slight bump to play it)

Whereas final doom (mostly tnt itself) gave me an urge to play it, I like them, predominantly tnt for its music and somewhat clever level design at the time, despite lack of monsters or new gun, I'd much prefer final doom over doom 2.

I'd say I'd have to agree with this statement. I prefer Doom/Ultimate Doom over Doom2 because I like the level designs more and IMO it's more fun to play, it seems to me anyway. Doom2 has some new enemies and a new weapon going for it and I like the new wall/floor graphics and the new skies, especially that cloudy brown sky in the first episode, and it has some decent levels. But it doesn't grab me the way (Ultimate) Doom did. Final Doom has better map design than either Doom or Doom2, period. And it - it being TNT Evilution - does make me want to play it, whereas Doom2 doesn't really, except for all the maps and megawads and whatnot. I definitely play Doom more than Doom2 simply cause I like it more.

[esselfortium]

baronofheck82 said:

Final Doom has better map design than either Doom or Doom2, period.

Plutonia perhaps, but...

TNT: Evilution? Are you sure?

[baronofheck82]

I see your point :P

[yellowmadness54]

hardcore_gamer said:

Why is Doom2's level design so shitty compared to The Ultimate Doom?

The Ultimate Doom has awesome level design with allot of unexpected fights and ambushes. The levels resemble stuff. But Doom 2 just has large empty areas, uninspired bland maps that don't really resemble anything, and is not even close to being as good as The Ultimate Doom. What went wrong? The same people were working on the 2 games right?

Were they just this busy trying to get the game released in time or something?

lol, I like the last excuse.

No, DOOM 2 takes place on Earth. And I like it because the wide, open maps and not always being in a small area going point a to point B.

I never really noticed much difference in the maps.

I like doom for the original feel, but after you beat it once (well, as for me, on several different ports I had to play it over and over until I managed to beat the ACTUAL game {freaking gamboy advance})
the only actually fun episode is the first. All the others became boring. Well, the second was ok and fourth was good.

[RestlessRodent]

Maybe Megawad rot happened to the guys at ID? usually the levels get worse the further you go into the game, they get blander and blander because they just got tired of working on them. When Doom first came out, making levels for it was a fun activity, then it became a chore. Possibly.