Doom 1 or 2?

[ReFracture]

yellowmadness54 said:

I like doom for the original feel, but after you beat it once (well, as for me, on several different ports I had to play it over and over until I managed to beat the ACTUAL game {freaking gamboy advance})
the only actually fun episode is the first. All the others became boring. Well, the second was ok and fourth was good.

Play it over and over? what do you mean? You beat Doom on several different source ports and you consider yourself having beaten the actual game now that you have played through them on GBA?..

The GBA ports were so awful..

[RestlessRodent]

Mike.Reiner said:

Play it over and over? what do you mean? You beat Doom on several different source ports and you consider yourself having beaten the actual game now that you have played through them on GBA?..

The GBA ports were so awful..

I didn't like the green blood and the bodies disappearing.

[Bastet Furry]

GhostlyDeath said:

I didn't like the green blood and the bodies disappearing.

First one is because Nintendo is full of Pussies.
The second one is because the little ARM7 in the GBA is clocked at roughly 17 Mhz and the system has to render its stuff the old school way, only the DS comes with a hardware acceleration.
That means: Ray-casting Galore.

This even impacts on the level design. The GBA-Renderer has, IIRC, no semitransparent lines.

And i would bet that the GBA-Renderer is written in some satanic form of thumb assembler while the devs smoked some real bad stuff... or they where sceners who do such renderers while eating breakfast. ;)

[fishmech]

Mike.Reiner said:

Play it over and over? what do you mean? You beat Doom on several different source ports and you consider yourself having beaten the actual game now that you have played through them on GBA?..

The GBA ports were so awful..

I have to say DOOM on GBA was at least the best use of the Jaguar mapset, and Doom 2 for GBA is actually really nice, especially how it uses levels that are bearely simplified, minus making two levels into two sets of two levels each.

I don't particularly mind the green blood and as for monsters disappearing after they die - the GBA had 384 kilobytes of memory!

Bastet Furry said:

First one is because Nintendo is full of Pussies.
The second one is because the little ARM7 in the GBA is clocked at roughly 17 Mhz and the system has to render its stuff the old school way, only the DS comes with a hardware acceleration.
That means: Ray-casting Galore.

This even impacts on the level design. The GBA-Renderer has, IIRC, no semitransparent lines.

And i would bet that the GBA-Renderer is written in some satanic form of thumb assembler while the devs smoked some real bad stuff... or they where sceners who do such renderers while eating breakfast. ;)

Actually there was wholly different renderers in each versus the other. DOOM had one renderer and used JAg maps, Doom 2 had another renderer and could handle a lot more stuff, so you got nearly full on Doom 2 PC maps.

[yellowmadness54]

Mike.Reiner said:

Play it over and over? what do you mean? You beat Doom on several different source ports and you consider yourself having beaten the actual game now that you have played through them on GBA?..

The GBA ports were so awful..

no, What I was saying was this.

I have played ultimate doom millions of times, including the actual.

But what killed it was when the GBA removed every good level and kept the levels that take forever or are just boring, meaning I had to replay those again to get the full experience via Xbox and steam, and now I just got the orignal wads of heretic, hexen, and the doom series, as well some mods.

[Kagemaru_H]

I'll probably just play in my DS with DSDoom.

So while you iPhone types are stuck with the first three episodes of Doom, and if you're lucky, E4, I'll be playing all four IWADs and some PWADs.

DSDoom is a port of Doom to the Nintendo DS based off the Prboom source tree because of its purity and portability.
Features

* DSDoom loads any Prboom-compatible IWAD file.
* Single-player is playable at very smooth framerates.
* Multiplayer network play is possible using DS wifi and prboom_server.exe.
* Configuration file.
* Sound effects work with stereo panning.
http://www.dsdoom.com/

Its only drawback is the lack of music support, but hey, it's Doom on DS.

This is motivation to do one of two things:

-Find an SD Card exploit.
-Buy a DSi flashcard.

[esselfortium]

Kagemaru_H said:

I'll probably just play in my DS with DSDoom.

So while you iPhone types are stuck with the first three episodes of Doom, and if you're lucky, E4, I'll be playing all four IWADs and some PWADs.

Cool story bro. Meanwhile, iPhone Doom is an official port created by John Carmack himself based on an optimized version of PrBoom's GL renderer that also runs all four episodes smoothly, has multiplayer, and also plays music. I haven't used it since it was still in beta but I'm fairly certain it has PWAD support in the finished release, too.

So, I'm not sure what you're getting at at all here with the "you're stuck with this while my unofficial port of choice is totally kool" business.

Also, what about just playing Doom on your computer? A laptop is the only "portable console" that can replicate the wonders of keyboard+mouse play :P

[fishmech]

yellowmadness54 said:

no, What I was saying was this.

I have played ultimate doom millions of times, including the actual.

But what killed it was when the GBA removed every good level and kept the levels that take forever or are just boring, meaning I had to replay those again to get the full experience via Xbox and steam, and now I just got the orignal wads of heretic, hexen, and the doom series, as well some mods.

GBA Doom did not remove those levels. Jaguar Doom did, and it was also made before Ultimate Doom was released.

GBA Doom 2 was made by entirely different people and barely removed anything.

[destx]

Kagemaru_H said:

Doom on DS.

Enjoy your 256x192 resolution.

That single factor makes me regret buying the DS. It can't even emulate NES games properly.

[Kagemaru_H]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2yBLEkNDu1Q&feature=fvw

It actually runs legitimately at 256x192. The reason DSDoom lagged is because it was loading the map, though you'd think it would load the map before any gameplay started.

Also, I see how the bottom screen contains both the automap and the status bar to compensate for the resolution, which is a clever use of the touch screen.

Also, enjoy your measly 27 levels while I'm playing 132 levels (three 32-level IWADs + one 36 level IWAD), and counting (AV and PL2 on the road with better battery life than your average laptop).

I would probably grab a DS emulator for the sole purpose of testing it.

Oh, and because you feel like shoving your superior resolution in my face, from this moment on, I'm running Windows at 800*600 out of spite.

[esselfortium]

Kagemaru_H said:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2yBLEkNDu1Q&feature=fvw

It actually runs legitimately at 256x192. The reason DSDoom lagged is because it was loading the map, though you'd think it would load the map before any gameplay started.

Also, I see how the bottom screen contains both the automap and the status bar to compensate for the resolution.

Also, enjoy your measly 27 levels while I'm playing 132 levels (three 32-level IWADs + one 36 level IWAD), and counting (AV and PL2 on the road with better battery life than your average laptop).

I would probably grab a DS emulator for the sole purpose of testing it.

1) No one cares
2) This has nothing to do with this thread at all
3) Who are you even fighting with? People were talking about Gameboy Advance and suddenly you're arguing with an iPhone user in your head or something.

[Bastet Furry]

fishmech said:

I have to say DOOM on GBA was at least the best use of the Jaguar mapset, and Doom 2 for GBA is actually really nice, especially how it uses levels that are bearely simplified, minus making two levels into two sets of two levels each.

I must say i have never played it because i dont like playing a FPS with a joypad. But i find it fascinating from a programmers point of view.

fishmech said:

I don't particularly mind the green blood and as for monsters disappearing after they die - the GBA had 384 kilobytes of memory

But ADoom refused to run on my unmodified 2 MByte A1200. That should tell us something. ;)
I dont have this machine anymore, traded it for an A2000 with 040 Turbo and 16 MByte. Should try it on that one again...

fishmech said:

Actually there was wholly different renderers in each versus the other. DOOM had one renderer and used JAg maps, Doom 2 had another renderer and could handle a lot more stuff, so you got nearly full on Doom 2 PC maps.

[james]
Jagdoom? What where they thinking?!?
[/james]

IMO, its fascinating what they got out of the little ARM7 inside the GBA. Makes me think, would a port to 286 era PC be possible?
I mean, you get a whooping 1 MByte without tricks and you have up to 8 Mhz more than the GBA. Ok, its CISC vs RISC, but i still think it would be possible.

[Inhuman Strain]

I've personally never really cared how "realistic" to the story/background the levels are, especially seeing as Doom is hardly something to consider for its plot in the first place (and rightfully so). As long as the levels are challenging and conducive to strong gameplay. Some Doom II levels do this very well and flow nicely. A few of the earlier ones are a bit silly, but still offer plenty of playing value and challenge to satisfy my bloodlust (not the REALLY early ones).

I think that Doom II levels are designed well, but the Evilution levels are hands-down the best. I remember starting up that game at 13, trying to beat it on Ultra Violence, and thinking, "Fuck, does this ever end? This is a LOT to take in". I never ended up finishing it. Perhaps it's time I make that my summer goal: Beat Evilution on Nightmare (if that's possible).

People who yammer on about the overrated Avatar flick and how beautiful Pandora was apparently never played Evilution. :)

[esselfortium]

Inhuman Strain said:

I think that Doom II levels are designed well, but the Evilution levels are hands-down the best.
[...]
People who yammer on about the overrated Avatar flick and how beautiful Pandora was apparently never played Evilution. :)

[citation needed]

[Inhuman Strain]

esselfortium said:

[citation needed]

?

[ArmouredBlood]

Inhuman Strain said:

?

!

[Inhuman Strain]

I know what it means, I just don't get why he put it there (besides the possibility that he's just taking the piss as indicated by his subtitle).

[esselfortium]

My subtitle? "Forum Spammer"? That was automatically assigned from my post count (before it I was "Forum Staple", and after it is eventually "Forum Legend"), and considering that it's taken 8 years to make all these posts, I don't think I'd call it that accurate. ;)

As for my comment, see this post. :P

[Inhuman Strain]

esselfortium said:

My subtitle? "Forum Spammer"? That was automatically assigned from my post count (before it I was "Forum Staple", and after it is eventually "Forum Legend"), and considering that it's taken 8 years to make all these posts, I don't think I'd call it that accurate. ;)

As for my comment, see this post. :P

Ah, I see.

As for that post, I agree that the level design wasn't completely perfect, but there was great use of complex structure and balance of open/closed spaces. As mentioned before, it was conducive to fun/challenging gameplay and that's good enough for me.

Also, the second to last picture you posted reminded me of Day of the Tentacle (don't know if that rings a bell, but it was where the Sludge-O-Matic was releasing toxic mutagen into the river, which ended up transforming a tentacle into a mutant genius after he drank it).

[fishmech]

Bastet Furry said:

I must say i have never played it because i dont like playing a FPS with a joypad. But i find it fascinating from a programmers point of view.



But ADoom refused to run on my unmodified 2 MByte A1200. That should tell us something. ;)
I dont have this machine anymore, traded it for an A2000 with 040 Turbo and 16 MByte. Should try it on that one again...



[james]
Jagdoom? What where they thinking?!?
[/james]

IMO, its fascinating what they got out of the little ARM7 inside the GBA. Makes me think, would a port to 286 era PC be possible?
I mean, you get a whooping 1 MByte without tricks and you have up to 8 Mhz more than the GBA. Ok, its CISC vs RISC, but i still think it would be possible.

The GBA does have the advantage that it has a significant array of hardware video abilities - such as it has built-in sprite support, and texture/sprite scaling/rotation.

You might want to try the actual game if you can on a GBA or a DS - its basically like playing keyboard-only on a semi-decent 486.

And the DOOM 2 maps used in GBA DOOM 2 are interesting in their own right - although many ones with extremely tall rooms get shortened somewhat. You even get the Romero and monster spawner in Map 30!

I actually think people who don't like Doom 2 PC's maps all that much should try playing on GBA DOOM 2 maps, if anyone's found a way to export the levelset yet.

[scalliano]

Bastet Furry said:

I must say i have never played it because i dont like playing a FPS with a joypad.

You don't have to.

[/shameless plug]

[ReFracture]

Kagemaru_H said:

but hey, it's Doom on DS.

I love how everybody claims DSDoom runs 'very' smoothly in single player, and by that they mean 15-20 FPS. Yeah, real smooth.

Too bad the DS is an uncomfortable piece of shit.

destx said:

Enjoy your 256x192 resolution.

That single factor makes me regret buying the DS. It can't even emulate NES games properly.

Oh god. I know. The resolution the DS is fucking terrible. All I ever use my DS for is playing NES games since all the official games suck ass, and it can't even do that properly.

Kagemaru_H said:

Oh, and because you feel like shoving your superior resolution in my face, from this moment on, I'm running Windows at 800*600 out of spite.

Are you retarded? No, I'm not being sarcastic; that is a serious question.

[RestlessRodent]

Mike.Reiner said:

Too bad the DS is an uncomfortable piece of shit.

For all the games I have (1, Advanced Wars Days of Ruin 313673 - 057043 if you want to play some (PM me)), I never use the stylus. I also cannot use my DS in a dark room because it's backlight will hurt my eyes.

Mike.Reiner said:Oh god. I know. The resolution the DS is fucking terrible. All I ever use my DS for is playing NES games since all the official games suck ass, and it can't even do that properly. [/B]

The DS Screen is about 2.50"x1.75" so with a pixel ratio of 1:1, you get 100-110 DPI (range due to approximations). Personally however, I prefer a DPI of at least 144, it's really nice. But other than how dense the screen is, I stay away from all the other DS games and just have one because I like the series.

[DuckReconMajor]

Mike.Reiner said:

Oh god. I know. The resolution the DS is fucking terrible. All I ever use my DS for is playing NES games since all the official games suck ass, and it can't even do that properly.

Kirby Canvas Curse is great and nothing you can say will ever change that.

So is Star Fox Command.

So is Mario Kart DS.

[EvilNed]

I have to say that whoever complained about how "realistic" Doom was and how "unrealistic" Doom II was is talking out of their asses. None of their games are realistic. None of the games have any levels that really look anything at all like what they are supposed to look like in the first place!

Does Hangar look like a Hangar? No, not really. And how about E2M1? That thing doesn't look like anything at all. Nothing in Doom looks like anything, really. Let's stop kidding ourselves. Doom 1 looks like a "techbase"? Sure, but Techbase is an extremely vague term to begin with. Except maybe the excess of slime in Toxin Refinery, you could really throw around the names of the maps and put them on any of the ones in Knee Deep in the Dead and nobody would be the wiser.

And as for E2 and E3 the map designs are really crappy. I love Doom, but there's nothing in Doom II that's as bland and boring as the stuff in E2 and E3. Sorry, but that's just another take on it.

I mean complaining about how the maps in Doom II not really looking like anything... Did you guys ever PLAY Doom I!? Nothing looked like anything! The Doom games have never been about that. They've been about great gameplay, great maps and great action. That's what the Doom games offer. They don't offer realistic maps.

[Gez]

It's abstracted realism. Yes, it does not look realistic, and shouldn't; the Doom engine is ill adapted to realism.

But it's more, well, immersive? Atmospheric? Disbelief-suspending? There's a greater continuity in themes. In Doom 2, you see gimmicky maps haphazardly thrown together. Some of the maps are great, of course; but many are devoid of anything that gives them a sense of being a location, rather than just an arena.

And it's not about realism. Maybe surrealism would please you better? I mean, let's make a metaphor and talk about paintings. Is this realistic? Is this realistic? No. But are they evocative anyway? Yes.

Doom 2 doesn't have the same charm. It doesn't try to depict areas. It is centered around raw gameplay elements, such as "here you can use infighting to have the two bosses kill themselves" or "here you can rush to the switch to activate a crusher" or "here you have a series of puzzles". In a way, they're levels rather than maps.

[EvilNed]

I disagree with the whole of my heart. The majority of Episode 2 and 3 in Doom I are real lackluster maps that contain no real substance and is little more than a collection of rooms. Most of Episode 2 is just basicly that: A collection of rooms doing what? Nothing, really.

Doom II has exciting areas with personality. I can't really think of a map from Doom II I dislike. I think they do their job and the majority of them have more personality than the majority of the episodes in Doom I.

And if it's surrealism you're after then again, I'd have to say Doom II takes the cake. I can see little of that in Doom I, except perhaps in The Flesh Consumed (which I think is the second best episode after Knee Deep).

[DuckReconMajor]

EvilNed said:

Doom II has exciting areas with personality. I can't really think of a map from Doom II I dislike. I think they do their job and the majority of them have more personality than the majority of the episodes in Doom I.

I disrespectfully disagree.

[EvilNed]

Don't tell me that The Shores of Hell is nothing but a much of interlinked room with no cohesion. :p

[DuckReconMajor]

EvilNed said:

Don't tell me that The Shores of Hell is nothing but a much of interlinked room with no cohesion. :p

I won't because it's not :)