Doom 1 or 2?

[Guest]

SSG - 'nuff said.

Edited July 26, 2017 by Guest

[ImpMan11203]

I'm surprised Doom 1 made it that far... Figured Doom 2 would win by a landslide

[TreeSquid]

Just sayin'

[Aldaraia]

Doom II. It's partially because I never played the entirety of UDoom asides from KDiTD until years after playing Doom II for the first time, so I'm naturally more forgiving of the flaws in Doom II maps vs those from UDoom (though E4 and E2M7 are legit for sure.) The 32 map style has that marathon feel I like, though I'd never actually beat it all in one sitting.

 

The SSG is pretty much my cane now.

[DeadAstronaut]

 

My apologies for resurrecting a 2 year old topic. I've been looking for a discussion on this though. 

 

Doom 1 and Doom 2 play incredibly different. It might not seem like it at first, but through experience, the difference is definitely there. The difference tends to play a vital role in players' taste and how they'll react to playing custom wads. 

 

Everyone loves to say Doom 1 has better level design when they bash Doom 2's level design. I think the real reason is that Doom 1 gives off such a memorable experience out of it's levels and the maps themselves, opposed to Doom 2 where it's combat situations that are some of the most memorable moments. 

 

Taking Doom 1's levels first, I greatly remember the feeling they give that you really are in some kind of base through E1 and exploring through this military base turned into a hell hole. E2 tries to continue this theme and towards the end, you do feel like you're really crossing into hell. E3 of course is exploring hell. Some of the most memorable moments in Doom 1 are in the details of maps opposed to the combat scenarios. We remember things like the lights going out on us after grabbing a key in E3M3 to reveal the imp trap. This site loves E2M2 with the box crate maze and that level is full of fun moments that are memorable (you have to explore to find the secret yellow key door back there). My favorite level in all of Doom 1 is E2M6 for it's creepy dark halls, there's also a fake exit in that level which is very memorable. Who could forget the reveal of the cyberdemon in the Tower of Babel? Mt. Erebus and Limbo have their moments where the level itself is far more memorable than any combat scenario could be. The list goes on with cool stuff that makes these maps memorable. 

 

Doom 2's maps on the other hand, are all about the combat scenarios we are thrust into. Moments like picking up the SSG for the first time and then mowing down a whole row of hitscan enemies in map 2; the first revenant encounter in map 6 (and the spider mastermind getting hilariously crushed to death), the big reveal of the mancubi and later arachnatrons in map 7, or the barons and the cyberdemon in map 8 (Tricks and Traps seems to have been designed around each room having a neat combat scenario), the list goes on. 

 

Doom 1 gives players the big tower and courtyard to reveal the cyberdemon. The level itself with the aesthetics of the baron corpses on the wall give the player the feeling "oh my, where am I now?" just like how E1 ends riding that elevator up to see the two big red doors and revealing the bruiser brothers. I think Doom 1's level design gets so much love cause it leads to memorable moments and provides a feeling that captures the player's mind. 

 

Doom 2 on the other hand ends with you riding a lift up shooting rockets into a giant wall. The combat scenarios like I named out are far more interesting and memorable than the levels themselves may by. There's no great big tower you enter and meet a cyberdemon outside. When you do end up fighting the cyberdemon; he's placed in a room to create interesting infighting in Tricks or Traps, he's very well placed in a position making it difficult to two-shot kill him in Refueling Base, and then in map 29, you are put in a very tough situation with the cyberdemon at the end of that map since he can easily kill you before you are ready for him.

 

One of my favorite Doom 2 maps that I think illustrates this is 'Courtyard' where the whole purpose of that giant wide open courtyard is to create a bunch of infighting. This level is so fun to replay over and over again just to watch the monsters infight with each other. 

 

I used to be in the crowd for years who thought Doom 2's map design sucked. Had I been on this forum 10 years ago, I probably would've been saying "most of the maps are atrociously designed" and complaining about Sandy Petersen. I'm glad I didn't do that and instead waited, matured and let my opinions change over time. Doom 2 made me look at the monsters a lot differently and I began to see where the maps seemed to be more built around monster placement and creating combat scenarios, opposed to Doom 1's level design. 

 

IMO I think Doom 2 took what was a great game and added some missing pieces to it with more monsters who greatly changed the game play and a new weapon that also changed how the game played forever. The SSG can mow down groups of hitscanners and imps so easily, but as the years have went by, I think it was intentionally made so powerful in close range to deal with revenants and archvilles. 

 

Revenants, chaingunners and archvilles are enemies you have to be on your toes about at all times. They change how you greatly play the game since they are dangerous and must be taken out ASAP. For years, I used to play against the revenant as if I were scared of him and would run and hide and try to kill him from a distance. I eventually learned, you have to get up in his face with the SSG and put him down. A good strategy is to bait him into trying to punch you. I think the SSG was designed specifically for killing revenants fast. 

 

With the added monsters and SSG, the major way Doom 2 changes in gameplay is that it encourages the player to be more daring. It pushes you to be more aggressive, play loose and do risky things. This is where I think Doom 2 really pushes things and perfects Doom. Slaughtermaps and most of Plutonia are a great example of this. Plutonia straight up encourages the player to be more aggressive and risky. Sure, you're going to die a lot of times, but it's more fun than ducking for cover all the time. 

 

Doom 1 is played entirely different from this. There's no SSG, so you can't just run head first into a mob of imps and hitscanners and slaughter them with 1 or 2 full shots. Demons/Spectres can be more of a risk and since there are no hell knights, every fight with the barons feels like a legitimate challenge. The fights with the cyberdemon and spider mastermind are in grand scale form to give the player the feeling that they're really in the heart of hell or a significant place, much like how E1M8 gives off the feeling that you're really about to go to hell when you step in the pentagram/baphomet portal. Doom 1 is all about great architecture in the levels and the design to demonstrate what is a journey from a space base into the lungs of hell. 

 

There really is no answer to which one is better. They're both great, but player's taste in one or the other will come down to what they prefer (and what kind of wads they like). 

Edited May 8, 2018 by DeadAstronaut

[Knee Deep In The Fan]

Doom 1 for me, better level design, music, and atmosphere. II is great as well, but if I have to pick one over the other it's the original.

[doomslayer11122]

The only reason I really only ever play DooM 2 is because of how many more wads there are for it. DooM 2's level design is really bad compared to DooM 1/Ultimate DooM. The levels are extremely maze like and empty compared to Ultimate DooM, and I can never find myself trying to beat DooM 2 without using cheats or skipping levels, I just hate the levels that much. 

I feel like i'm the only one that feels like DooM 2 is just Ultimate DooM with way worse level design and some new weapons. Like seriously, I hate the levels so much in DooM 2. Love DooM 2 for the WADs though.

 

Any of you guys feel the same way? I still respect DooM 2, don't get me wrong. I just prefer DooM 1 in basically every way except for WADs.

Edited July 18, 2018 by doomslayer11122

[Marcaek]

lol at those people who call doom 2 mazelike but prefer doom 1, a wad of literal mazes

[elend]

I must also confess, that I never really got into the level design of Doom 2. There's just something off about it.

[HAK3180]

That Ultimate Doom maps are better designed than Doom 2 maps is certainly a popular opinion. I guess I tend to agree from an objective standpoint, but I still like Doom 2 better, if that makes sense.

 

 

 

[doomslayer11122]

19 minutes ago, Marcaek said:

lol at those people who call doom 2 mazelike but prefer doom 1, a wad of literal mazes

DooM 2's level design starts getting confusing starting at level 2, DooM 1 gets gradually more maze like, I never needed to look up guides for DooM 1 like i did with DooM 2 when i was younger.

[The Nate]

A lot of people do.

[bioshockfan90]

Doom 2's levels have more creativity, Doom 1's are better designed. Pick your poison.

[SGS Man]

Doom 1's levels are more consistently good despite slouching occasionally in the gameplay department due in part to the lacking bestiary and weapons.

 

Doom 2's levels are gimmicky and varied with few pockets of excellent, albeit inconsistent, gameplay. They form the basis for earlier WADs but feel like variety for variety's sake.

 

Also, Doom 2's levels aren't mazelike. Doom 2's levels are mostly open and directionless, with haphazard gimmicks strewn about that sometimes shoot down the actual gameplay. Doom 1 has mazelike levels where you figure a route to the end rather than picking a random direction and hoping for the best.

 

 

[Dragonsbrethren]

I really fail to see how Doom II is more mazelike than the original. I can only think of a handful of directionless levels, and one of those has a literal arrow telling you where to start... Meanwhile Tom Hall's levels basically were flat mazes.

 

Doom II has American McGee levels, and his levels rival Romero's E1 stuff. The SSG and new monsters allow for much more varied gameplay in those levels. Level design is more than lines plotted on a grid and sector properties.

[Doomkid]

Doom 2 has so much more variety than Doom 1 which is what makes me return to it every couple years for a fresh play through. Some sprawling maps with lots of vertical combat, some small maps that are easy to breeze through, some nonlinear designs that force you to explore, some more straightforward linear maps, some hard as balls (for the time), some a piece of piss. On top of all that you have some super memorable setups like the Baron army VS the Cyber on map08, the Spider VS Cyber on map20, and a final boss that's actually engaging and challenging as opposed to the 'dead in 3 seconds' Spider at the end of Doom 1.

 

From a narrative perspective, Doom 1's maps are far more believable as futuristic tech bases whereas Doom 2 throws any trace of realism out the window in favor of 'arcadey' setups purely designed around the combat/encounters.

 

Different strokes!

[Marcaek]

If all of Doom 1 was as good as Episode 1 was, I'd maybe see where people are coming from, but you probably have 9 good levels all together in E2 and E3, and E4 was post-doom 2 plus it only has 3 levels which don't fizzle out after you survive the start. None of the original 3 episodes really have a difficult map so once you're remotely good at the game there's little reason to revisit any of them. Doom 2's more open level design better allows you to tackle challenges from different angles so it's more replayable in that sense.

Edited July 19, 2018 by Marcaek

[LordXel]

Not a big Doom 2 guy level design wise, it's not terrible by any means design, but it's my least favorite in terms of id games

[RustyGold]

I'd say Doom 2 up until map 21 Is really great. Map 21 Is a literal joke (Name and all) 22 is ok... 23 Is good for the first 10 seconds with all the barrels. 24 Is Is good despite the catwalk. 25 is ok (Like the Music). 26 Is really good with all the secrets. 27 has a good creepy vibe too It. 28 Is abit rushed. 29 Is a good action map. and 30 didn't age too well.

[Poncho]

Maze-like? Huh? Also, Doom 2 is so much more abstract and thus, the level design feels more engaging (a lot of levels, especially by the underrated Petersen, are very non-linear WITHOUT being maze-like, with the VERY partial exceptions of Maps 13 and 15).

[Breezeep]

There always has to be these kinds of threads popping up every now and then...

[Drilbur]

I'm not too fond of the "city" maps in Doom 2. Duke Nukem 3D's urban maps blown Doom 2's away. I still find myself playing through Ultimate Doom more often outside of WADs.

[Maser]

The only Doom 2 map that I have a problem with is "Industrial Zone".  It's really cheap level design when you have this huge wide open area with nowhere to hide and there's hitscan enemies all around you shooting at you from above.  Can't even imagine how that map is done on Nightmare difficulty. 

[Gaia74]

i like all arquitecture of doom 1 and 2, i enjoyed so much the maps, my favorite is the level 29

 

but doom 2 no are maze-maps, il semble, but is why the maps are more open

 

 

[leodoom85]

48 minutes ago, Breezeep said:

There always has to be these kinds of threads popping up every now and then...

I wonder why

And Doom 2 is NOT mazey in my eyes...in fact, it's pretty straight-forward compared to Doom 1...

[SoulSphere]

I agree Doom 1 had the best levels. Doom 2 drives me insane.

But i do like the doom 2 wad with Brutal Doom 64.

Play Brutal Doom 64 it's awesome man.

[Marcaek]

39 minutes ago, Maser said:

The only Doom 2 map that I have a problem with is "Industrial Zone".  It's really cheap level design when you have this huge wide open area with nowhere to hide and there's hitscan enemies all around you shooting at you from above.  Can't even imagine how that map is done on Nightmare difficulty. 

 

It's actually probably easier than something like map04. AFAIK the early game in doom 2 is the real hurdle for nightmare because of all the zombies. Later maps have more projectile monsters which you can at least have a chance to dodge...

[Poncho]

2 hours ago, doomslayer11122 said:

DooM 2's level design starts getting confusing starting at level 2, DooM 1 gets gradually more maze like, I never needed to look up guides for DooM 1 like i did with DooM 2 when i was younger.

Well, I'm sorry to break it to you, mate, but I personally think you're not that good at the game AT ALL (getting lost on Map02. Honestly...)

[Koko Ricky]

We seem to get "Doom 2's level design sucks" threads every few months and rarely does the OP attempt to dissect what is so lacking. 

Edited July 19, 2018 by GoatLord

[Stealth Frag]

5 hours ago, doomslayer11122 said:

The only reason I really only ever play DooM 2 is because of how many more wads there are for it. DooM 2's level design is really bad compared to DooM 1/Ultimate DooM. The levels are extremely maze like and empty compared to Ultimate DooM, and I can never find myself trying to beat DooM 2 without using cheats or skipping levels, I just hate the levels that much. 

I feel like i'm the only one that feels like DooM 2 is just Ultimate DooM with way worse level design and some new weapons. Like seriously, I hate the levels so much in DooM 2. Love DooM 2 for the WADs though.

 

Any of you guys feel the same way? I still respect DooM 2, don't get me wrong. I just prefer DooM 1 in basically every way except for WADs.

Just out of curiosity - when did you play Doom for the first time?