The DWmegawad Club plays: Slaughter Until Death & The Evil Unleashed & Obituary

[Steve D]

3 hours ago, Capellan said:

 Everything is better with cacos.

 

 

As you taught me, Jedi Master. ;) 

[vdgg]

 

On 1.07.2017 at 0:30 AM, Memfis said:

e2m1 - demo.

You have a "trademark" style of sorts, your casual demos or first attempts are very recognizable because:

When you have the shotgun and the chaingun, you always use the chaingun until you run out of bullets.

 

On 1.07.2017 at 8:41 AM, Steve D said:

If the Mollers were around today, people would be beating them over the head for designing a Hitscanner Holocaust with no Green Armor,

How true

 

 

 

E2M2

I didn't find it so interesting to play. Hard to say about what kind of theme is that... brown? But then, the only area I remembered from the past was the big marble room. The lowering lift revealing cages may have been new at the time. There were some stupid switches which did nothing at first glance. I opened Doom Builder and I found something which looked like dummy sectors... but they are not here, not yet, it is just some sort of a map signature using sectors, I believe.

 

Oh, and I died once: after teleporting I jumped into nukage forgetting about pressing a switch behind me first. There is no way out of the nukage if you don't press it.

Edited July 2, 2017 by vdgg

[rehelekretep]

8 hours ago, Demon of the Well said:

 

@rehelekretep: Don't get too discouraged by the secret counts, in most cases the actual number of secrets is less than the official count, since many of them evidently contain multiple sectors individually flagged 'secret.' Somewhat bothersome for completionists, perhaps, since it's very easy to walk into a secret without necessarily triggering all of the sectors, particularly if you don't need all the items in the room at a given time (as was the case with me and the medikit in the store behind the wooden pushwall).

hah! ive discovered this myself jumping ahead quite a few maps where there is a section of stairs where each of 10 or so steps is tagged. certainly feel a little less distressed at leaving with 1/22 or some such number now :D

[TheOrganGrinder]

12 hours ago, Magnusblitz said:

I get a weird invisible wall/glitch when moving around the compmap pickup... anyone else get this? I don't see anything in the map editor so I wonder if it's a nodebuilding error.

I had this occur too, though it got less bad when I pushed down to the far end of the hallway and opened up the wall there.

 

Also I ended the map with 5/6 secrets and opened up it up in the editor to try and figure out where I'd missed one, except I could only find five secret-flagged sectors... not sure quite what's up there.

 

E2M3: The Blazed

 

Fun, mazelike, interconnected in interesting ways, with a lot of secrets hiding a fairly substantial amount of real estate - the total number of 'real' secrets isn't as high as the listed 20 since several of them consist of multiple secret-tagged sectors through which the player can't help but traverse upon finding the hidden closet or secret passage, but it's still pretty significant.  While the overall arrangement of spaces lets the player into only one region of the map at a time in a linear fashion, I like the way it's laid out, with each key allowing access to the next subsection of the map rather than strictly forcing a return to the hub after each is collected - you have the option of completing it as a single loop, or doubling back to the hub at any point to make your way to previously cleared areas to retrieve ammunition and healing items.

[NuMetalManiak]

E2M3 The Blazed

 

And in this level we have...TWENTY SECRETS! But this being a 94 wad, many are not done properly, and a good chunk are doubled up. All of which are easy to find. Interesting hell-themed map of sorts, but its design is probably the worst. The jagged caves to the southwest are crap for the most part, as is the lava run where some switches presses are needed just to get out of there. Good thing it wasn't max damaging. The general structure is that of a hub. Those switches at the end are not really good, considering how you'd waste time and possibly a few hitpoints backtracking for a soul sphere and a megaarmor (neither are marked secret), then back to the exit.

[gaspe]

E2M2: I liked this more than the previous level overall, despite the gameplay was slow with all those pinkies. The last sequence after you enter into the wooden building was nice, and the various transformations made the level more interesting.

[Jaws In Space]

SUDTIC E2M2 - HMP, Continuous

 

Mysterious Halls introduces us to the other half of the Innocent Crew Denis Möller. Right off the bat I see that there is an abundance of Demons, not sure if that was a design decision for the map or if it is a mapping preference for Denis, but it made for somewhat sloggy gameplay. Lots of switches & walk lines littered about the map keep things interesting though by changing up the map & the lighting was nice.

[gaspe]

E2M3: Quite cool the usage of the marble switch texture to decorate the starting area. It was a pretty good level overall, though I don't feel that something really stood out in the combats. The best part is the area where you find the blue key. Even if this is a standard 3-keys hub I liked that there wasn't only one way to access to the next area. And lots of secrets here, even pointless ones lol.

Edited July 2, 2017 by gaspe

[NaZa]

I don't know do you still link 'em Dobu but here's me playthrough of both:

https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLqnuLXm7K3GQQ7PFadJmTu0sGIQilM4l- (SUDTIC)
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLqnuLXm7K3GSOmRDBMN6wL1vCH8UYFISz (TEUTIC)

 

[Steve D]

E2M3 The Blazed by Thomas Moller

 

I totally loved this map. It's one Jagoff Move after another from the very beginning. Thomas Moller shows glorious abandon in doing all kinds of things I hate and making me like it. Like at the start with 4 Pinkies, a pistol, and shotgun shells saying, "Fuck you, buddy! You're supposed to play this continuous!"

 

And then there's the marble switch textures which mostly aren't real switches. I died 4 times on the lava in this map, including 3 times figuring out which switch actually opened something. Man, this mapper is mean! :D

 

And then once you go through a door, if you walk too far forward, you cut yourself off from Sergeants who are your walking weapon and ammo supply, absolutely vital if you pistol-start, which you're obviously not supposed to do. It's a good thing I savescum, or I probably would have died 6 times just figuring out how to get my greasy fingers on a shotgun.

 

Of course, once I killed a couple Sergeants and impetuously raced into that pitch black room, I turned around and saw Cacos and Pinkies massing at the doorway, which just happened to have a toxic barrel conveniently placed for a shotgun blast, but, "Oh, no!" It turns out there were a bunch of unseen barrels in that Stygian darkness, including some right alongside me. Holy self-inflicted wound, Batman! I'm just giggling at this point over what a total sadist this guy Thomas Moller is. This is the kind of guy who'll reach down your throat and yank out your vocal chords.  If he was a doctor, he'd have hot, sweaty dreams about doing a triple-bypass surgery without using anaesthetic. In short, he has the perfect attitude for a Doom mapper. And I'm just the masochist to fully appreciate his evil gifts.

 

Oh, and he's not done yet. Fall into that lava pit -- like I did -- and good luck finding the secret way to get out of there. And even if you do, it's a mad scramble trying to kill Pinkies and Spectres, grab Stimpacks, and press switches in order to escape with more than 20% health, but that's how this guy Moller rolls. I actually didn't fight that fight until much later, because upon seeing a lava pit and platforms, and knowing I often fall off such platforms, I saved my game and just scummed out of there. I only did the fight as an option when I was nearly finished, and I took so much damage I decided to open my save and foreget about it, so I lost that secret but still found 14.

 

This map had great atmosphere with all the darkness, and neat touches like the three caged scrolling SP-Face cubes. That first locked-passage Pinky trap got my heart racing and also cost me a lot of health. After that, I felt genuine old-timey Doom fear. It was like 1995 again for me, and that's a pretty amazing thing to say for any map. There's nothing like wandering through dark and dangerous passageways, punctuated by some nicely-staged rooms, and knowing that at any second, you might get pounced by Sergeants, and there you are with middling health and no armor, and I gotta say I was sweating it.

 

And three cheers for that Blue Key fight. What a beautifully-designed room, and what a clever combat set-up. I was down to 25% at one point and zombies were still pouring in. Definitely makes you respect the lowly trooper.

 

This map is obviously heads and shoulders above the general run of 1994 material. It's crackling with cool and inventive ideas and setups. It even looks pretty good for the most part and IMO is intensely atmospheric. It's just a great Doom experience for me. 

Edited July 2, 2017 by Steve D

[Capellan]

SUDTIC E2M4

The map begins with a mandatory “secret”, but it’s so blatantly sign-posted it’s hard to imagine anyone will exactly be stumped by it.

 

Two maps from each brother so far and Denis certainly seems to be the more inclined toward switch-heavy gameplay.  This is also the first map where I felt like there was a lot of “flick a switch and then go wandering around to find out what it did”.  It wasn’t anywhere near as bad as some maps from the period in this regard, but it was noticeably less intuitive to me than the level before it.

 

Denis overall also seems to to be a bit technically sloppier than Thomas: inconsistent use of the unpegged flags for instance, and a tendency to not bother texturing walls that the player won’t ever see (and a few they will).

 

[rehelekretep]

s2t3 fda

surprisingly nasty start (can you run into the shotgun cubby hole/bunker if youre quick?), confusing progression, and a novel use of dangerous troopers in this map. not much else interesting to me aside from the structure/architecture of the aforementioned trooper-gang room.

[Demon of the Well]

E2M3 -- The Blazed - 100% Kills / 100% Secrets

Right! This is a good example of what I was referring to earlier when I mentioned the WAD using a number of design decisions that have come to popularly be viewed as 'wrong', or at least as 'questionable.' Steve's harried experience with the mapstart (which he evidently loved rather than resented, note--few things warm my heart more than that guy's positive attitude towards this kind of stuff, I swear :D) is quite illustrative: the pistol and 50 bullets you start with are not really adequate for the situation you immediately find yourself in once the level begins, pushing you to fight on bad terrain until you're out of ammo (which, once again, a 90s player probably would've been vastly more likely to commit to than a modern one), or alternatively to move forwards underarmed into the chokepoint and heavier opposition waiting deeper in beyond the first locked door.

 

The remedy to all this to-do is a secret room with a chainsaw (genuinely useful in this map!), shotgun and shells nestled behind one of the skull-corners in the lava hub, which immediately liquidates the issue as soon as you know about it--what some weaker/more entitled players might call a 'mandatory secret.' I feel like most players with any modicum of secret-finding prowess will intuitively grasp that the skull-corners are suspicious, but the potential damage-tax on inspecting them for the first time might dissuade the more unflinchingly conservative among us, which is an interesting tradeoff and decision point on a first play. I also find it amusing that that same classic secret-sniffing sense can bite you in the ass shortly thereafter, in the room with the short 3-platform run to the yard up north--the secret door in the lava is not hard to spot, but if you investigate it you're going to come out of the venture with nothing but a decisive net loss of status, since the resultant sequence simply builds the stairs to let you out of the pit while unleashing a few specters to kill on top of the health you lose from the lava. Looking at a WAD of this age, it's hard to know whether to interpret this more as actual Dungeon Master spite for the sake of it or as roguish playfulness, but of course there's really no reason why it can't be a bit of both at once, right? Later in the level we see what can be a surprisingly dangerous dogpile trap with pinkies in one of the blood-tunnels which can take off quite a bit of health if not reacted to instantly/correctly (though it is visually telegraphed, note! ;) ), which contrasts against the hilarious jumpscare trolling resulting from the mystery of the three face-pillars off of the vine atrium. Sometimes the knife, sometimes the whoopie cushion, like I said.

 

The Baron of Hell is introduced here, incidentally. I was a little surprised to see him this early on, I admit (though I suppose he's in m3 of the original Shores of Hell as well, come to think of it), but no harm done. Regardless of which of the two you encounter first, he gets to make something of a grand entrance, either by bellowing in your face via the aforementioned jumpscare or regally descending his special bloody staircase near the yellow key. This WAD is old enough that I reckon it predates a lot of the usage of the poor misunderstood Baron that has earned him a lot of the rather hostile/dismissive PR standing he tends to be subject to these days; these guys here are used mainly for mostly unobtrusive spectacle rather than for 'challenge', a somewhat endearing pattern of usage largely particular to very old PWADs (think of the guy inevitably serving either as the 'minister' or as the 'groom' in one of the many old OG Doom PWAD chapels, and you'll know what I mean).

 

The layout here is of course a baldfaced hubspoke design, though as with many other features of the set thus far it feels like it's treated with more care than average. The progression is a mite less mechanically spry, involving lots of walking down low-ceiled corridors and opening lots and lots of standard doors, though this is enlivened by a sense of progression arising from repeatedly threading the needle passing back through or near the central hub, which basically amounts to an early example of a 'looping layout' (i.e. where you backtrack without actively having to backtrack, in other words). A longer level, and naturally less thematically cohesive than the prior two since each wing of the level tends to be conceptually discrete, the use of the hubspoke here helps tie it all together and avoid some of that experiential disjointedness so typical of WADs of this era. It's not high art by any means, but it works.

[Magnusblitz]

E2M3: The Blazed

91% killss, 6/20 secrets

 

I'm usually not the best at sussing out authorship, but it seems pretty clear this is by the same brother as E2M1, with the other brother doing E2M2. Lots of similarities with the hallway-room-hallway-room layout, heavy use of hitscanners and use of vertical movement as traps. I can definitely see why this is a good example of "wrong things" in modern map-making... lots of required damage (with nary a radsuit in sight), one-time areas, worthless secrets, etc. I found the 'missable' shotgun room to be cute, actually, as it 1) punishes the player for just going around hitting switches for no reason, 2) it's near the start so you can reload easily and 3) you can still kill the enemies inside with the barrels.

 

Interesting in that it's a hub layout where returning to the hub is completely unnecessary until the exit room, too.

 

 

[TacoTurtle]

So by today's standards it is clear that time has not been kind. That in mind, I can very much seeing myself being estatic had I played this when I was a lot younger.

E2M1: Great start.... I suppose it foreshadows how much of a pain in the ass shotgunners are going to be.
I liked the pentagram windows, nice little touch. Also the Lava room upon entry with the four imps screaming at once was pretty atmospheric.

I felt like the grey caverns in this map could have been a bit darker.

E2M2: I liked the opening on this one (but then again, who wouldn't after the lovely start on the first map?). Jokes aside descending elevators at the starts of levels always gets me. Makes me feel like I'm putting myself in it; whether it be hell or just in the nitty gritty underdwellings of a powerstation or sewage treatment facility. Speaking of sewage treatment, it took me a lot longer to find that green switch to raise the ground in the sewage room than I care to admit.

E2M3: The darker areas of this map were on point, compared to that of the first map.

This was a stand out map for me so far, as after observing the blood bath below the yellow skull and taking a right I was met in with a little bit of a surprise that did catch me off guard. The sound of all the walls going at the same time hammered home danger and immediately I was pressed up against the wall trying to unload my shotgun as fast as I could. And yep... another surprise when I came back through. Executed well.


Overall the maps seem a bit... fragmented in sections and didn't seem to gel that well together. Look forward to playing more soon!

 

[TheOrganGrinder]

E2M4: Death Pain

 

More compact than the preceding level, this one feels less mean and more whimsical in its layout, with teleporters spiriting the player back and forth and passages opening and closing to both enable progress and thwart escape according to the mapper's moods.  There's a more pronounced sense of flatness to it, with only a handful of areas possessing much of a gameplay-significant vertical element.  I can't point to anything about this that's offensive or unplatable, but I don't know that it's especially memorable, either.  Where it succeeds is in neatly evoking that Shores of Hell subverted and transformed techbase atmosphere without feeling as though it's retreading or copying anything.

[gaspe]

E2M4: There are few interesting ideas here, and the level is more complex that the author's previous work in the mapset (E2M2). I would say it's a forgettable level however, it plays and looks generic.

[Magnusblitz]

E2M4: Death Pain

98% kills, 3/7 secrets

 

This one has a tough pistol start, as the player has to fight through a decent amount of hitscanners before being able to liberate a shotgun off one. There's also a bit of ammo shortage early on, but once the first part is beaten, it's pretty easy. Small level as well, though the teleporting can be a bit discomforting. I again appreciate the use of movement to liven things up, but I agree that it is a bit generic/forgettable on the whole.

[rehelekretep]

s2t4 fda

slightly more loose/run-and-gun map notable for some decent combat scenarios that would be murder in a modern wad (for example the imp/pinkie teleporting room - i can just imagine HKs on the balconies and revs teleporting across - and the caco/pinkie barrel room) but are simply interesting in a '94 doom wad.

its also weird how the 'easiest' map suddenly gives you a BA in a relatively easy to find secret. not sure what that's all about. fun map!

Edited July 3, 2017 by rehelekretep

[Jaws In Space]

SUDTIC E2M3 - HMP, Continuous

 

Well this map was quite mean to the player. Fake switches in lava, some nasty monster closets, & some not too difficult platforming. The whole map was one strange gimmick after the other with relatively slow paced gameplay. I didn't mind the evilness, but the mishmash of ideas makes the map feel disjointed & I think that this is a pretty weak map overall.

[NuMetalManiak]

E2M4 Death Pain

 

We've got a very Wolfenstein-y feel to this particular level, as it is mostly flat all around. The caged zombiemen and flat rooms prove that. Some tricks involving the yellow key, and a few crusher traps (in other words, when the evil smiley face at the bottom of the map attacks) to find. The map as a whole is actually very easy and fun to speedrun through.

[paymentplan]

SUDTIC - E2M2 - Containment Area

Kills - 96% Secrets - 0%

 

An odd duck of a map. Feels like efforts were made to have some unique progression while also trying to keep the level looking like it coulda been in the Doom IWAD. The progression is certainly unique. Sometimes obtuse, but I appreciate the attempt. Aesthetically it's a bit more interesting the E2M1. I like the view down into the nukage pit a little after the start through the bars. 

 

Gameplay falls short again, though. Cacos are in the mix, but don't add a ton. Looking for (hoping for) gameplay to improve a bit as we go on. 

 

[Capellan]

SUDTIC E2M5

I’m a sucker for the whole “you can see the exit from the start of the map” thing.  Though in this case it’s one of two exits you might eventually reach.

 

I quite like the whimsical first section of this map, including the mandatory nukage dash.  I think it’s pretty well sign-posted what you’re supposed to do, and the fact that a sergeant may well be waiting right in the other doorway is an amusing bit of potential RNG dickery.

 

On the other hand, I don’t care for the catwalks and towers in the final section of the map.  That’s all a bit tedious really.

 

Didn’t find the secret exit, so I won’t be playing E2M9,

[TheOrganGrinder]

E2M5: Mutilated Corpses

 

I'd agree with @Capellan's obsevation that the final section with the catwalks and towers is tedious; it feels gimmicky, like there's a good idea in there but excessive repetition in such a small space that's only visited once (and quite briefly) means it wears out its welcome, and it also feels like a missed opportunity for cacodemon combat.  On the other hand, the rest of the level up to that point is very enjoyable, an entertainingly tight tangle of corridors, snakey stairs, and toxic slime through which the player is enticed to navigate.  The presence of two blue keys is a nice touch, a concession to multiplayer I guess?  And I'm torn on whether the secret exit is too obscure or too obvious; on the one hand, there's nothing to indicate that there's any reason to shoot or otherwise interact with that particular wall unless the player has already picked up the computer map, but on the other hand, the computer map itself isn't buried in a secret area, I mean it's not exactly sitting out in the open but nor is it tucked away in a hidden spot that the player's unlikely to access on a typical playthrough.  Still, this is some fun and engaging Dooming.

Edited July 4, 2017 by TheOrganGrinder
Fixing a link

[rehelekretep]

s2t5 fda

this demo is notable for my complete brain-fart where i just decide to walk off the end catwalk and die in the slime below, literally seconds away from the exit.

i dont like the blue-key door circular section; the decision to go through the nukeage to a door that isnt visible until you enter the slime doesnt seem intuitive enough to me. this, coupled with the wad's so far appetite for backtracking, left me feeling like id missed a trick earlier in the level.

Edited July 4, 2017 by rehelekretep

[NuMetalManiak]

E2M5 Mutilated Corpses

 

I imagine the only corpses mutilated here will be the monsters when I get done here. Anyways, this is the map I finally get a rocket launcher and plasma rifle, not that that speaks any sort of volume considering this also is where the secret exit is located. Things to note are the numerous stairs seen in the map, which includes some zigzagging stairs. Not to mention a crate maze with the red key and the silos where you get the yellow key, which involve a bit of guess and check as far as switchhunting goes. I'm okay with it since it only really happens in one room entirely. There's even a second blue key in the map, which I imagine makes it easier for coop players. You have to shoot a random wall to get that secret exit going though.

[gaspe]

E2M5: Best level so far, the action was well constructed and even visually the things are better. I loved the stair section after the elevator and the bridge room behind the blue door. There are also nice tricks used, quite notable the changing corridor before the red key room, though the execution is a bit "primitive". The yellow key section with the towers is a cute idea.

[gaspe]

E2M9: Didn't enjoy this so much. The climax happens when you reach the arena I guess (at least on pistol start, there you'll have to search for ammo quickly into the nearby areas and make more monsters to chase you). Otherwise the action is flat and uneventful. In particular the southern section of corridors filled with alcoves was really boring to visit it. I liked that the 2 keys where located in rooms near each other.

[NuMetalManiak]

E2M9 Arena Of Punishment

 

The real punishment this provides, apart from some nasty hitscanners, is the awful layout, combined with stuck monsters and monsters you cannot even shoot. I am talking mainly about that big area to the south, with demons beyond pentagram windows, awfully out of reach. And there's even two that don't wake up. There's not really anything that screams arena as well. At the beginning, jumping for the BFG9000 seems to be a one-shot ordeal, but I make the most of it anyways. The whole southern part of the map is probably the closest to the "arena" but it's just terrible to look at and play too. And I've found secrets with nothing inside them. Apparently, the things inside are not tagged for ITYTD/HNTR, and another one isn't even tagged for HMP. This is why you tag your difficulty settings people!* As for the rest of the map, it's incredibly congested, and not rightfully so, as there's no really bad ambushes to speak of apart from a shotgun guy one in a secret room. Not fun at all.

 

*I mean yes, you can deny access to great resources by using some difficulty setting trickery. But this level doesn't really show that well.

[Salt-Man Z]

Back from vacation and ready to rock this mutha. I actually played all of these (for the first time) back in 2015. Typical 90s fun, as I recall. I did UV back then, so this time I'm going to uh try pistol-starting. Not generally a fan, but I'll try it out here. Otherwise, GZDoom/saves/keyboard-only as usual.

 

E2M1: Flying Guts

9:37 | 100% Everything

 

Don't know why my brain remembers this one being in the Serenity trilogy, but there it is. The shotgunners at the start are indeed obnoxious, but otherwise I enjoyed this. I like (or maybe just remembered) the northern area for whatever reason, and I like the way progress sprouts up seemingly at random as you wander around. And I dig the new pentagram window texture.

 

E2M2: Mysterious Halls

20:30 | 100% Kills | 100% Items | 83% Secrets

 

A decent map with a lot of memorable areas. The northern room with all the closets stuck with me the most. (I never have gotten to see that bridge raise.) Not really a lot else to say, other than to note a missing texture on one of the stairs leading to the exit room.

 

E2M3: The Blazed

20:55 | 97% Kills | 81% Items | 40% Secrets

 

This one has a nasty pistol start. It took me a couple tries before I just settled on dashing for the door and running straight for the shotgun cubby, taking out the barrels and yay shotgun time. Some vicious traps; the pinky pit did me in at least once. The death-to-maxers nukage room was just needlessly cruel. But this one is a lot of fun all around. I really like the eastern section with the raised platforms up to the key, and the way it's a key-hub map that doesn't require returning to the hub every time.

 

E2M4: Death Pain

13:57 | 99% Kills | 100% Items | 57% Secrets

 

Ugh, this start killed me like 4 times. Sooo many hitscanners. I like the progression, where you teleport over to the other side of the cage to get the lowered yellow key.

 

E2M5: Mutilated Corpses

12:52 | 100% Everything

 

I liked this one a lot. Figuring out how to get past the blue key area before getting the key is a fun lightbulb moment. (Though what's with the two blue keys in this level?) The overlapping hallways are a neat precursor of better future mapping tricks, but here the sounds and glimpses of the walls reconfiguring always throws me off, thinking some secret door is closing. I didn't find the the exit rooms tower maze particularly tedious, but I did have a lost soul kill me by knocking me into the nukage, super obnoxious.

 

E2M9: Arena of Punishment

23:04 | 98% Kills | 83% Items | 80% Secrets

 

Kind of a weird one, with lots of disparate sections tied together by tight corridors. The southern section was tedious with its shotgunner pincer trap at every intersection, but I eventually settled on just running forward, then turning around to pick them of en masse. The eastern arena felt like it had a lot of wasted potential, and the mob of pinkies outside (that I zerk punched through the windows) was oddly pointless. It's a secret map, though, so whatevs.

Edited July 5, 2017 by Salt-Man Z