"Ultra-Violence is the real way to play Doom"

[TootsyBowl]

Forgot where I heard that from, but the guy who wrote it also said that HMP was too easy. (Let's leave out Nightmare since it's designed to be unfair.) Do you agree with it? I personally have only ever played on Hurt me Plenty.

[vita]

No, UV tyson (chainsaw, fist and pistol only) with -fast is the real way to play Doom.

[baja blast rd.]

1 hour ago, TootsyBowl said:

Forgot where I heard that from, but the guy who wrote it also said that HMP was too easy. (Let's leave out Nightmare since it's designed to be unfair.) Do you agree with it? I personally have only ever played on Hurt me Plenty.

This is silly. Challenge level varies not just between the in-built skill settings but between mapsets themselves, which is obvious when I mention it but gets overlooked all the time in these threads. A corollary of that HNTR of some mapsets can be harder than UV of others. In many 'challenge-oriented' releases, HMP and sometimes HNTR is quite a bit harder than most stuff on UV.  HNTR of sd20x7 is harder than the UV of most wads. NM is pretty 'fair' in lots of maps and can even be easy. 

There is some truth to the title statement: UV is a good choice as a default because it tends to be the most well tested experience a mapset has to offer (and the most challenging and engaging one with the usual mechanics, if your tastes lean that way). But 'The Real Way' is a dumb way to phrase it. HNTR, HMP, UV, NM with a toaster controller on a DOS '90s PC in the nude . . . all valid ways to play Doom, depends on what you're looking for.

 

Anyway, this thread has popped up a decent amount. A couple of recent ones: 

 

https://www.doomworld.com/forum/topic/74064-how-important-are-difficulty-settings

https://www.doomworld.com/forum/topic/94255-do-you-design-your-wads-levels-based-on-hmp-or-uv/

https://www.doomworld.com/forum/topic/92866-real-talk-do-people-use-difficulty-settings

 

Edited July 15, 2017 by rdwpa

[TacoTurtle]

It's a game; difficulty levels exist within the game; ergo they are all real ways to play the game. Struggling with a particular map or WAD? Knock down the difficulty.

However, I would say that in DOOM I and II, if the player is proficient enough UV can lend itself to being the most enjoyable experience of the game. It also tends to be a good way to get consistency across different map (sets), as rdwpa highlighted it tends to be the most tested.

 

[Gez]

I was going to say there's no "real way" because there's no "fake way", but then I remembered Brutal Doom exists, so there you go. The real way to play Doom is without Brutal Doom.

[Grain of Salt]

The insistence some players have of playing on UV even if it's too hard for them (and then inevitably whinging about it being too hard) reminds me of that old chestnut about NASA astronauts always requesting large size condoms even when they didn't fit.

[Graf Zahl]

I use the difficulty level that seems to best fit my tastes. For old 1994 mods that's indeed mostly UV, but for modern mods that tend to be a lot harder I often stick to HNTR, a good example would be Valiant and Ancient Aliens.

 

There's also some mods where I play on a lower level simply for reducing the time being spent on some maps. More monsters take longer to kill, after all, regardless of how good you are.

 

I consider mappers which do not implement skills "because real Doomers play on UV" lazy at best or ignorant at worst because different players have different skills. Let's also not forget that some of us first generation Doomers slowly approach an age where reflexes aren't as good anymore as they were 10 or 15 years ago.

[Spectre01]

I'd say no, but that depends on how much the author(s) cared about balancing and testing other difficulty settings.

[TootsyBowl]

So if I made a map and it had the same amount of enemies on all difficulties, that's lazy even though individual enemies are tougher?

[geo]

As a teen playing Doom, Ultra-Violence was the only way I played. As an old man... nope. I like enjoying my entertainment.

 

What's odd is I never became better at Doom by competing on the higher difficulty like I did other games. I can still speed run the games that I did as a kid. I can still get through Contra 1 and 3 without dying (even if it takes me 3 runs to get up to that level). Maybe I will try ultra-violence soon since I do play other FPS pretty efficient and murderous.

 

I still find alternative ways to enjoy Doom like indeed doing pistol runs.

Edited July 15, 2017 by geo

[DoomGater]

3 minutes ago, Graf Zahl said:

Let's also not forget that some of us first generation Doomers slowly approach an age where reflexes aren't as good anymore as they were 10 or 15 years ago.

Very sad and very true. And beside the decreasing reflexes there are other disadvantages. I'm 52 now and my hands are hurting after 2 hours intense playing. Back in the 1990's it was no problem to play all day and all night...So, "HNTR" is all I want now, but back in the days I'd UV'd everything...

I don't say "Kill me now!", but I begin looking for a good synthetic body replacement and -yeah- a new brain wouldn't hurt either...:-)

[NuMetalManiak]

You should protect against UV this summer with sunscreen if you haven't already. I also like to play new mapsets on the lowest settings for the first time and bump it up the better I get.

[Graf Zahl]

36 minutes ago, TootsyBowl said:

So if I made a map and it had the same amount of enemies on all difficulties, that's lazy even though individual enemies are tougher?

Why? You did implement skills, didn't you?

 

[BigDickBzzrak]

40 minutes ago, TootsyBowl said:

So if I made a map and it had the same amount of enemies on all difficulties, that's lazy even though individual enemies are tougher?

You mean like having 1337 barons on UV, 1337 HKs on HMP and 1337 Imps on HNTR? That would be swell, actually.

[VGA]

I just pistol-start and try to Nightmare-Max everything.

[rehelekretep]

oh boy

 

i always thought that some of the UV = correct comes from speedrunning only caring about UV and above, but i see a lot of the people with this viewpoint dont even know the first thing about Doom speedrunning so i dunno...

[Memfis]

Doom is much scarier on lower difficulties. Some maps are, like, nearly empty.

[rehelekretep]

yes its quite eerie, especially UDoom itself.

[TootsyBowl]

1 hour ago, bzzrak said:

You mean like having 1337 barons on UV, 1337 HKs on HMP and 1337 Imps on HNTR? That would be swell, actually.

Nope. Just the barons on all difficulties.

[rehelekretep]

then unless you are flagging things like items/weapons on the different difficulty settings that map would be identical on each setting :D

Edited July 15, 2017 by rehelekretep

[TootsyBowl]

Just now, rehelekretep said:

then unless you are flagging things like items/weapons on the different difficulty settings that map would be identical on each setting :D

I know. That's the whole point.

[rehelekretep]

you are confusing me ¯\(°_o)/¯

[The_SloVinator]

Difficulty selection exists for a reason. Not everybody see UV fit, so they will drop it to more suitable one. 

It's better to play on a skill level you enjoy rather than on highest skill level & force yourself to beat it despite not having fun, raging & screaming at the top of the lungs like a maniac. I know one ex-Doom streamer that was the latter.

[rehelekretep]

youre not talking about sweet-p again are you?

[Lingyan203]

There's really no such thing as "real" way to play Doom; everyone plays differently depending on how much experience they have playing Doom as well as other FPS shooters. Just play at your own pace and what difficulty that you find comfortable, whether it's ITYTD, HNTR, HMP, UV, UV -fast or whatever, or whether you do pistol starts on every level or just play through continuous.

 

It basically depends on what wad you play or if it's the original games. I'm sure most people on Doomworld have played through the original Doom/Doom 2 on UV. The more you practice, the better you get.

 

Not every skill level is for everyone, including whether you start each map with pistol start or just play through continuous. We all have our unique way of playing Doom, which makes all our gameplays unique. If there was a "real" way of playing Doom, and if we all played the "real" way, then all our gameplays would be exactly the same, which would make all the gameplays quite boring actually.

[Rosh Fragger]

It isn't really DooM, w/o it being challenging and engaging. So yeah, #UV4evah!

[CapnClever]

4 hours ago, TootsyBowl said:

So if I made a map and it had the same amount of enemies on all difficulties, that's lazy even though individual enemies are tougher?

Based on the replies, you appear to be assuming that different difficulties actually change the properties of enemies. On I'm Too Young To Die you take half damage from all enemies; on Nightmare certain projectiles are faster, all enemies are more likely to attack at shorter intervals, Demon/Spectre action frame durations are halved (effectively doubling its total speed), and enemies have a chance to respawn every ~11(?) seconds; no other difficulty changes values like this. So if you're playing on HNTR or HMP or UV, the only thing different between these difficulties is thing placement, and if there are no thing placement differences then they play identically.

 

Up to you if you decide this is lazy. Personally I think it's a sufficient way to map if you're clear to the players that this is the case, and that players who want an easier time can move up to ITYTD without worry that the enemy composition is different. Implementing interesting difficulty settings is really hard, after all.

[Aldaraia]

Like others have said, it depends on your playing style, mapset, and what you're looking to get out of the experience. If I'm dying a dozen times to survive each encounter on UV but am getting a real kick out of the gameplay regardless, I'll soldier on until it becomes an act of tedium.   

 

I always go for UV first to test the waters and see how demanding the monster numbers/arrangements are. Its my preference to dial down the difficulty from consistently having my ass ground into dust, rather than going up to UV after finding the challenge is not to my liking at the time. 

[Cruduxy Pegg]

Play whatever difficulty level you want to play, No one is forcing you to play what they want. Monsters are the same on UV and HMP, Just more shit is placed. (Most of the time, A cruel mapper can make HMP\HNTR harder than UV)

[TootsyBowl]

1 hour ago, CapnClever said:

Based on the replies, you appear to be assuming that different difficulties actually change the properties of enemies. On I'm Too Young To Die you take half damage from all enemies; on Nightmare certain projectiles are faster, all enemies are more likely to attack at shorter intervals, Demon/Spectre action frame durations are halved (effectively doubling its total speed), and enemies have a chance to respawn every ~11(?) seconds; no other difficulty changes values like this. So if you're playing on HNTR or HMP or UV, the only thing different between these difficulties is thing placement, and if there are no thing placement differences then they play identically.

 

Up to you if you decide this is lazy. Personally I think it's a sufficient way to map if you're clear to the players that this is the case, and that players who want an easier time can move up to ITYTD without worry that the enemy composition is different. Implementing interesting difficulty settings is really hard, after all.

Ah, thanks for clearing things up.