Exit Sign Abuse?

[Ol' Scratch]

Is this anyone's pet peeve: You come across an exit sign, go where it indicates, and 5 rooms later you're still fighting with no end in sight? I noticed this in a few spots in Sun Lust and some other excellent wads I found here, and have now hit a spot mapping where I'd like to use that device myself. An exit sign would be the perfect little cue to go through this narrow little nook, but it's only about halfway through a pretty huge wad. Should I just go for it?

[Magnusblitz]

For me, at least, the 'exit' sign means that the switch (or walkover line) that ends the level is coming up soon, so I should be careful of pulling any switches if I want to go back and explore. So placing the exit sign far away from the actual end would be pretty annoying and likely confusing. There should be other ways to draw attention to a nook... stuff like a trail of bloodstains or corpses, or a trail of health pickups. Even the old 'light arrow' works for this, though I can understand why you'd want to avoid that too.

[Xyzzу]

 

Oh wait are we talking about a different kind of abuse?

[scifista42]

43 minutes ago, Ol' Scratch said:

I noticed this in a few spots in Sun Lust and some other excellent wads I found here,

Weren't they always near exit rooms, even if those exit rooms weren't accessible yet? They might be there to inform you where the exit room is, so that you will remember where to go later after you do something to unlock the exit, perhaps.

Edited July 21, 2017 by scifista42

[Ol' Scratch]

2 minutes ago, scifista42 said:

Weren't they always near exit rooms, even if those exit rooms weren't accessible yet? They might be there to inform you where the exit room is, so that you can return there later after you do something to unlock it, perhaps.

Yeah that might have been the case, I've been meaning to replay it soon so I'll pay more attention next time. I definitely saw signs and then proceeded to not beat the level on at least 2 occasions, but I can't rule out my own ineptitude.

 

Xyzzy I hope that switch just triggers an ambush or something.

[leodoom85]

1 minute ago, Ol' Scratch said:

Yeah that might have been the case, I've been meaning to replay it soon so I'll pay more attention next time. I definitely saw signs and then proceeded to not beat the level on at least 2 occasions, but I can't rule out my own ineptitude.

 

Xyzzy I hope that switch just triggers an ambush or something.

Remember the fake exit in E2M6 in Doom 1? That's where it started....

[Ol' Scratch]

35 minutes ago, leodoom85 said:

Remember the fake exit in E2M6 in Doom 1? That's where it started....

Now I do, thanks to a 30 minute youtube wormhole... I haven't played Doom1 in over 10 years, and I remembered virtually nothing. So many Cacoward winners I haven't even played yet, when will I have time to go back through the originals?

[leodoom85]

Maybe...it's up to you really ;)

[40oz]

its nasty when used in a 'realistic' map where it points to the exit of a building or area but not the exit of the map

[Demon of the Well]

For point of conversation, the kind of thing you've described--where what seems like it's an exit turns out not to actually be one--usually doesn't bother me much, no. On the contrary, false exits or what seem like map stops with an additional coda after them are a cool design trope I'd actually like to see more of, granting that if any single set (or probably any single author) were to use them too heavily they'd rapidly become predictable, and thus lose a lot of the magic. All else being equal, your idea for a huge fakeout sounds entertaining to me, I say go for it as far as that's concerned.

 

What I do dislike, though, is basically the opposite of what you've described: a map that ends suddenly at some point that doesn't read like it should be the exit, the most common offenders being unmarked switches or exit lines placed in such a way that it looks onscreen like there's a lot more building/terrain (and thus, more map) beyond them. Some folks seem to like leaving maps with vast swathes of content unseen because it leaves a certain sense of mystery and something to look forward to on a theoretical replay, but the reality I usually find myself facing is that I won't be replaying most things for months, years, or maybe ever (which is primarily a matter of time constraints rather than one of predilection), and so I like to be able to avoid leaving inadvertently/before I'm ready in most cases.

[Fonze]

For a bit I got excited, thinking somebody else was doing this type of stuff: 

 

but much like xyzzy I was let down by the normality of the question's intent.

 

On topic: I think exit sign use as sort-of breadcrumbs leading the player down the path towards the (eventual) exit in large, nonlinear maps is a good thing, but then again not all will agree, and even those that do will agree it can certainly be just flat-out executed poorly. I used a couple exit signs above switches to exit lock-in traps (along the path to the exit) in WormHell that were not well-received. Looking back, those might have been better if in the more hub-like areas, as their placement made it unclear if just to exit the trap or end map or note mandatory progression or whatever. 

[leodoom85]

Fonze's Exit^TM

[Unholypimp1n]

What I think is more abusive is not having an exit sign for a switch that doesnt look like its an exit only for it to actually be one.  I love to backtrack after finishing a map to look for secrets that iv missed, however when I accidentally exit the map without knowing it makes me mad cuz then I can't go back and get what iv missed.

 

[dobu gabu maru]

I typically use "EXIT" before a final battle generally as a way to tell the player the map is over after that... only one of my maps used it maliciously at the halfway point as a way to deceive the player. IMO, like a lot of others I think it's considerably worse not to warn the player the upcoming switch is the exit, even if it might be "immersion breaking" or what have you.

 

I really can't recall it being used "halfway" through a level in Sunlust

[Megalyth]

EIXT

[Crusader No Regret]

Now that this topic has been brought up, I have this evil idea.  Want to get 100%/secret exit/really cool part of map?  Carefully navigate through this maze of exit linedefs, mwa ha ha.

[leodoom85]

9 minutes ago, Crusader No Regret said:

Now that this topic has been brought up, I have this evil idea.  Want to get 100%/secret exit/really cool part of map?  Carefully navigate through this maze of exit linedefs, mwa ha ha.

and add some teleport lines just to return the player to the beginning and redo the maze... >:)

[Mr. Freeze]

Why would Hell have exit signs?

[Ol' Scratch]

3 hours ago, Mr. Freeze said:

Why would Hell have exit signs?

I think it's the same joker that left a bunch of boxes of medical supplies sitting around.

 

Fonze you just gave me and idea, I think I will patch together some sort of marker using existing textures (I'm doggedly sticking to only original textures on this map).

[Fonze]

1 hour ago, Ol' Scratch said:

I think it's the same joker that left a bunch of boxes of medical supplies sitting around.

 

Fonze you just gave me and idea, I think I will patch together some sort of marker using existing textures (I'm doggedly sticking to only original textures on this map).

Texture-Frankensteinery is an art form and arguably more interesting when done in a map editor with no additional resources than in paint and adding those additional patches to the wad :)

[R13]

I think it should be somehow established earlier in the WAD, so the player knows if the exit signs marks the actual level exit, or is just a pointer towards the level exit much further.

 

What I don't like is the red-button switch marked with exit sign, or the E1M1 door which don't have the exit switch, now that is just screwing with player's exceptations.

[Dravencour]

When it comes to exits, two main things signify an exit for me -- the exit sign, and a door with the exit door texture.

 

E1M1 did this quite clearly. Its exit door had the specific texture, and the exit sign right above it. The only thing that level perhaps did wrong was placing the exit switch to the right instead of straight ahead; but to be honest, since it's the only switch in the exit room and is easily found, that is not an issue.

Edited October 3, 2017 by Dravencour

[Memfis]

I believe the best exit sign abuse ever was in 131.wad. :D Make sure to check out Map05 in particular.

[Job]

[Exeunt, pursued by a bear] 

[Quasar]

Earlier today I was watching some Doom 64 EX videos on YouTube and noticed that Hell has excellent OSHA compliance when it comes to exit sign placement. Now, I realize this is a contrivance for the player's benefit, but if we pretend we can't be critical of this from an external POV and that we've actually found normal-looking English EXIT signs plastered around in Hell, it is kind of amusing. I first noticed it at the end of Even Simpler, when the exit switch - and no less than four signs describing what it is - helpfully rise out of the ground at the end of the battle, and then I thought back to how a few of the other maps also have such signs in them.

[Job]

I always rationalized it as Hell's hubris. Whoever or whatever is ruler of that realm sees this all as some elaborate entertainment.  After all, can you ever really truly defeat Hell itself? No, only as much as you can annihilate evil or permanently extinguish the dark. 

[Cipher]

It's not a pet peeve, but I do consider it a bit of a troll to extend too far past the exit sign, so I feel like it's best reserved for moments of intentional cruelty rather than being part of a mapset's standard progression. As others have mentioned, there are better ways to direct the player if that's all you're intending to do.

 

On the other hand, if this is a moment where you really want to be mean and buck the player's expectations, go for it.

[Reisal]

I just utilize it the way classic Doom used it: Outside or very near the exit door.

[Maes]

On 22/7/2017 at 3:44 PM, Mr. Freeze said:

Why would Hell have exit signs?

For the same reason that pushing a button instantly makes all your trouble go away, apparently.

[Manuel-K]

7 hours ago, Dravencour said:

E1M1 did this quite clearly. Its exit door had the specific texture, and the exit sign right above it. The only thing that level perhaps did wrong was placing the exit switch to the right instead of straight ahead; but to be honest, since it's the only switch in the exit room and is easily found, that is not an issue.

I think that Romero did this deliberately to show another enhancement of the engine. In Wolf3D the switch had to be straight ahead of the elevator door. (Strictly speaking this was not a limitation of the engine, but a result of the way the textures are arranged to save precious memory/disc space.)