A new trick discovery: zero press!

[ZeroMaster010]

Doom 2 map 15 in 0:45.73 ... a 10 second improvement over the previous record!

 

well, fuck, looks like I have to do 30uv again.

 

Also, I thought the max reach to hit a switch was 64 units (from centre to linedef)?

lv15o045.zip

 

Edit:

So far we have:

Ultimate Doom E4M2 (facing west, 40 unit gap, through the wall with 32 unit gap2)
Doom 2 Map 07 (facing south, 64 unit gap)
Doom 2 Map 12 (facing east, 8 unit gap, through the wall with 8 unit gap2)
Doom 2 Map 12 (facing south, 8 unit gap, through the wall with 8 unit gap2)
Doom 2 Map 15 (facing west, 48 unit gap)
Doom 2 Map 17 (facing west, 16 unit gap, through the wall with 16 unit gap2)
Doom 2 Map 19 (facing west, 8 unit gap, through the wall with 8 unit gap2)
Doom 2 Map 32 (facing west, ~53 unit gap, through the wall with 32 unit gap2. Note that you need a gap3 from doomguy to the wall of about 21 units.)
Plutonia Map 04 (facing south, works upto 69 units)

TNT Map 10 (same lv32, this was thought not to work because of blockmap line being on the edge of the linedef, but it does, however pl28 still doesn't work)
Alien Vendetta Map 20 (facing west, ~53 unit gap, through the wall with 40 unit gap2, same as lv32 so you need about a 13 unit gap3 from the wall)
Doom 2 The Way id Did Map 03 (facing west, 16 unit gap, through the wall with 16 unit gap2)
Scythe Map 03 (facing west, 48 unit gap)
Dystopia3 Map 06 (facing west, 48 unit gap)
Rebirth Map 06 (?)

 

Other levels that have been checked, but have been unsuccessful:
Ultimate Doom E1M7 (blocked by wall?)
Doom 2 Map 11 (blocked by wall?)
Plutonia Map 28 (blockmap)

 

Facing direction means you walk forwards in that direction, for example facing west you move to the left on the minimap when going forward.
Gap is from edge of linedef to the edge of doomguy, add 16 units to get distance to doomguys center.
Through the wall means there is a wall blocking the linedef, gap2 is the gap from the outer wall to the linedef, gap3 is the gap between the outer wall and doomguy, so gap is gap2+gap3.
In all cases the switch is to the left of the player by a small amount, and no one has ever activated a switch from behind.
If the switch is to the right I would suspect you need to use -longtics when demo recording so that you can move slowly to the right instead of left, so far this has not worked.
In almost all cases you need to be facing as straight forward as possible, except lv15,sc03 where you can turn at most twice (TL2), though I am not 100% sure of this.

 

So, to sum up what I've got so far, without the new trick you press a switch from less than 48 units away and not through walls, with:
The furthest distance a switch has been pressed (through a wall) facing west: 56 (41*) units
The furthest distance a switch has been pressed (through a wall) facing east: 69 (32*) units
The furthest distance a switch has been pressed (through a wall) facing south: 69 (34*) units
The furthest distance a switch has been pressed (through a wall) facing north: 56 (16*) units

* is gap2, if I have a wall blocking the switch and the gap from the wall to the linedef is larger than those values I fail to activate it, of course that doesn't mean it doesn't work, but it might not be possible. For example AV20 (west 40* units) works easily, but LV11 (east 40* units) fails after much effort.

 

Note that sometimes smaller values doesn't work (I haven't seen LV32 with just 32 units gap through the wall), and sometimes the gap2 from the linedef to the wall makes it impossible(?) like LV11. Also there are blockmaps which can also prevent you from activating the linedef like PL28, but not if you are close enough like LV19.

Edited September 19, 2017 by ZeroMaster010

[dew]

Lovely, this certainly opens up new possibilities. The IL record is also going to get upset and I do believe this will eventually go into 30nm as well, heh. Just find the cells elsewhere. :P

[Memfis]

Well, that's exactly 64 units, right? http://i.imgur.com/WfTBd2v.png

[ZeroMaster010]

I'm not perfectly close to the wall, and I can also activate it by having my angle turned to the left by 2.

[4shockblast]

I'm sure many a player (including myself) has tried to hit this switch from below in the past:

 

Plutonia Map 04 pacifist in 0:08.46.

pp04-846.zip

Edited August 14, 2017 by 4shockblast

[ZeroMaster010]

Normally you can hit a switch up to 64 units away, for my lv15 trick it was barely over 64 units... by adjusting the exit switch linedef on caged I managed to exit by being just over 85 units away (distance being from the edge of the exit switch linedef to doomguys centre).

 

I'd love to see an explanation for this.

[rehelekretep]

bizarre - how does all this work :\

[Looper]

Doom2 Map07 in 1:13.

 

Ok it just shows how to hit the exit from the lower ground, but this could be the very first time ever :o Maybe someone has hit it by accident in 23 years, and told his big bro and no one believed. Here's the proof now.

 

Credits for Zero-Master for finding the Map15 switch press and 4shockblast for finding PL04 switch press. I'm sure this won't be the only good place for the trick, especially considering TASs.

no07-113.zip

Edited August 14, 2017 by Looper

[dew]

Rip all iwad records.

[rehelekretep]

im surprised that no one with doom2.exe etc was able to find this earlier on in doom/2's lifespan...

Edited August 14, 2017 by rehelekretep

[rehelekretep]

so what's going on here?! what's the true limit to doomguy's reach

[eLim]

Doom II Map07 nomo in 4.57

While everyone was busy exploring the trick, I decided to bash out a quick and dirty record so that 4shockblast is practically forced to go for a 3s now >:D

lv07no457.zip

[Looper]

Have to hit the damn exit! Fuuuu

[Looper]

Ok, this is some crazy stuff :D RIP many runs for sure.

 

Doom2 map17 major skip

no17xwtf.zip

[dew]

Doom speedrunning 1993-2017 RIP, we're into the era of d44m-like ignoring of the mapdesign altogether.

[Memfis]

Boys, you're scaring me. One thing I like about Doom speedrunning is that even though there are tons of exploits, none of them are too ridiculous. I remember it was such a relief when it turned out that void glides have a very limited use because for a moment it looked like they were about to ruin everything. IIRC someone even suggested that they should belong to a whole separate speedrunning category. I hope this switch stuff won't get too crazy...

Edited August 14, 2017 by Memfis

[Linguica]

13 minutes ago, Memfis said:

 

[dew]

Guys and gals, since we're purging ugly tricks from uv-speed, I'm banning linedef skips. Hate them. Anyone else wants something removed while we're at it?

[Benjogami]

1 minute ago, dew said:

Anyone else wants something removed while we're at it?

Glides please.

[Ribbiks]

oi. any write-ups yet as to how exactly this works? amazing how far into doom's lifespan such huge tricks are being found

[GoneAway]

6 minutes ago, Ribbiks said:

oi. any write-ups yet as to how exactly this works? amazing how far into doom's lifespan such huge tricks are being found

lots of testing going on in the discord

[ZeroMaster010]

Threw together a video of the different tricks discovered so far:

 

 

and lv32 and e4m2s should both be doable like lv17, but it might be difficult non-tas.

 

edit: also scythe map 03 is the same as lv15 and was the second time it was used.. also discovered AV.wad map 20 it's possible to hit the switch which opens up to the exit room.

Edited August 14, 2017 by ZeroMaster010

[GrumpyCat]

WTF I just watched lol.

Awesome trick!

Potentially breaks so many maps.

 

Was it possible to predict it by looking at source code? =)

 

[Linguica]

For the Map17 trick at least, the issue appears to arise out of P_InterceptVector. When the player presses "use", the function correctly detects the solid wall intersecting the "use" trace at 16.04 units from their center (since the player has a radius of 16 units, right in front of their face, in other words). The switch line is detected as being crossed at... 10.2 units, or inside the player, in other words.

 

The reason *why* this happens is pretty confusing and obscure, because the algorithm to detect the line intersection is sort of black magic, and it further messes things up by bitshifting parts of the values to be smaller.

[rehelekretep]

this is getting silly now boys, stop at once

[Paul977]

Doom has been broken

[RjY]

4 hours ago, Benjogami said:

Glides please.

I remember when glides were first discovered. I think it was HR02 by a guy named Cack_Handed. The record which had been 2 minutes of smooth, high quality speedrunning was replaced by this wobbly demo where the player meanders around the map for a half minute then spends another half minute forcing himself through an unlikely gap to reach the exit. Its only merit (other than the proof/demonstration of the trick) appeared to be that it was whole minutes faster than the previous record. But in all other aspects it was an inferior demo, in the sense that, which one would I rather watch again? And I wondered if this was the future of speedrunning, with high quality optimized smooth runs being replaced across the board by hacks, and being highly skilled at playing Doom being less rated than being highly skilled at studying the game source and the maps for hours and hours and then breaking them.

 

Obviously though this didn't happen. What actually happened was that the skilled players incorporated the new tricks into their repertoire and after a brief period of turmoil and exuberance as all the possible glides were found in existing wads, things settled down and the messier new runs were replaced with good ones that were as smooth and nice as the old records but incorporated the new trick as well.

 

Now this is just the example I remember because I was here following the forum as the glides were discovered. I imagine it's happened before. I know historically there was a lot of controversy about strafe50 and the so-called Steffen Winterfeldt Jump on E4M2, and I imagine a few people groaned in the same way when the first death slide was discovered (on PL17 I think?). I expect this extreme switch press gimmick is just another step on that cycle, it will be disruptive for a while but before you know it it will be a normal thing to see in all of the highest quality speedruns.

 

In short: @Memfis all this has happened before, and it will happen again. Might as well enjoy it.

[vita]

Doom 2 map 32 -nomonsters in 9.60.

lv32xo960.zip

[fraggle]

17 minutes ago, RjY said:

Its only merit (other than the proof/demonstration of the trick) appeared to be that it was whole minutes faster than the previous record

I mean, that is supposed to be the point of a speedrun, isn't it? ;)

 

[RjY]

2 minutes ago, fraggle said:

I mean, that is supposed to be the point of a speedrun, isn't it? ;)

"Beauty is the first test: there is no permanent place in the world for ugly speedruns." ;)