The DWmegawad Club plays: Crumpets & Stardate 20X7 & Rush

[NuMetalManiak]

10 hours ago, dobu gabu maru said:

I generally like this rule but as long as people play along it's fine—the FAQ in the OP states you don't have to post to participate.

I'm honestly okay with people playing along without posting but they ought to let the main players know of their experiences in at least one post, you know. I think the extreme lack of observed participation this month, especially from the ones who had voted for these wads last month, might have made things a bit hairier, most of it is real-life things that we would all understand.

 

MAP06 Delusions

 

Not much to do in this dreary map. Despite the low monster count, this one takes the longest, due to starvation of resources and careful planning. Marred heavily by me getting lost in the nonlinear maze of walls. Some extra enjoyment when combat is there though, like with the new mancubus and there being no cyberdemons around. A certain timed switch is required to reach the red key, urgh. I guess the level name fits.

[Magnusblitz]

17 hours ago, dobu gabu maru said:

I generally like this rule but as long as people play along it's fine—the FAQ in the OP states you don't have to post to participate.

 

 

Though in a sense that's a bit of a oxymoron, because if they're not posting, then they're not participating. Sure you can just be lurking and playing the WAD on your own time, but if no one else knows this, does it really exist?

 

Edited September 26, 2017 by Magnusblitz

[rehelekretep]

[Capellan]

I think there are several ways to participate, other than the "post every day" approach:

 

• share your stream
• post replies to other people's comments about maps (I don't think we do enough of this in general)
• post general thoughts about the wad as a whole or about an episode's worth of wads (as DotW did for Moonblood); just be careful of spoilers if you're playing ahead

 

(list is examples; there are probably even more ways than these)

Edited September 26, 2017 by Capellan

[rehelekretep]

map09 fda

goddamn its a big one! i had similar issues to @Demtor - the puzzling messed up the pacing for me. there were some really cool fights - the pinkie/cyber bit, the pyramid warp-in with the cybers (penultimate arena fight) and the last arena was cool, although i had to check the thread to work out what the switches were meant to be doing. are the 10 monsters left the AVs? the midi was great.

[rehelekretep]

On 22/09/2017 at 9:41 PM, Demtor said:

 

MAP32 - “Issai Perfect”

gzDoom - HMP – pistol start/saves

 

Jeezus H… Uuuugh. Not for me. This was just silly. I mean, come onnnn man.

 

The ceiling crushing gimmick looked cool but I dunno. Who has the patience for this kind of thing? Not me.

 

I liked the end with the purple suited guys worshiping the purple crystal.

 

Glad these last two aren't a part of the proper maps. The main 9 is legit. These few secret maps where kind of meh for me.

lol. m32 looks like the 'TimeOfDeath' map :p

[Tristan]

15 minutes ago, rehelekretep said:

the midi was great.

+1, I'm surprised it seemed to be relatively overlooked here actually compared to the rest of the soundtrack, imo it's a very strong MIDI and also it's by Ribbiks himself so it kinda stands out for that reason alone.

[NuMetalManiak]

14 hours ago, Capellan said:

I think there are several ways to participate, other than the "post every day" approach:

 

• share your stream
• post replies to other people's comments about maps (I don't think we do enough of this in general)
• post general thoughts about the wad as a whole or about an episode's worth of wads (as DotW did for Moonblood); just be careful of spoilers if you're playing ahead

 

(list is examples; there are probably even more ways than these)

Basically this was what I had in mind in my previous post. Any of these will let others know that people have participated and giving opinions on whatever is being played. It could just be one post, even (like the general thoughts/stream posts).

 

pushing further...

 

MAP07 The Chaos Heart

The Castlevania remix of a Sonic theme? No thank you. Again, not really a hard slaughter map, though we've got the hordes present, they are usually small revenant hordes at most. The indoors got the similar room to MAP02's revenant/mancubus room, except with no way to crush the latter. I try to save the invulnerability for the remaining monsters, to good effect. Took a while to figure out the exit, involving some pillar hopping.

[Grain of Salt]

The midi for sd20x7 map09 (which if I remember correctly is called something unassuming like "C Minor thing") is possibly my favorite doom midi.

[rehelekretep]

Ribbiks is a talented mofo thats for sure :D

[Spie812]

Gzdoom - UV Pistol Start - Saves

 

MAP06 'Delusions'
The slaughter in this map seems to have been toned down quite a bit in this map. Not to say that this map is any easier than the last, since this map pits you against numerous enemies in rather tight spaces. The setting in this map is completely different from the other maps so far, abandoning the snow/ice theme in favor of a dark grey brick fortress-like map. I feel like heath and ammo are a bit on the scarcer side leading to some interesting encounters. My biggest problem with this map was trying to find the red key, which took way too long.

 

Map07 'The Chaos Heart'
This level has a lot of revenants. You start out in a nice looking springtime area. hitting a switch immediately reveals a fortress of hell (That escalated quickly.) For most of the rest of the level you're blasting enemies with your trusty rocket launcher. Infighting using the cyberdemon is a necessity for surviving the final fight.

 

map08 'Land of the Demons'
All notions of going easy on the player are gone. You start out in a really bad situation with hordes of revenants and hell knights, flip a switch and yet even more are revealed. You have to get to the BFG as quickly as possible without losing all your health, which a tricky feat to pull off. After that nonsense you can finally attempt to clean things up a bit. This level is easily the most difficult map so far.

[Lingyan203]

+++PRCP

[NuMetalManiak]

MAP08 Land of the Demons

 

Another setpiece map, starting out with hell knights and imps, and giving turreted monsters and revenants as I get to the next segment. Revenants dominate much of the big hall here, and a secret invulnerability helped out with cleaning outer rim revenants and hell knights, as well as a cyberdemon. The blood pit battle against two cybers is pretty well made too, as were the arch-vile encounters. Endgame encounters were okay. Nothing much, but dropping into the lava gives hints for what comes next.

[rehelekretep]

can anyone give me a hand with 20x7 m31? i dropped off the platform that teleporter '2' is on and now i cant find a way to get back to it :(

[Capellan]

So looks like PRCP will win the vote.  Which is good for me, because October is looking kind of packed, and I will feel absolutely no remorse about skipping something Plutonia-related.

 

I'll be back on the 25th to cast my (probably lone) vote for Trooper's Playground et al once more :)

 

[Killer5]

@rehelekretep

https://www.dropbox.com/s/c3b1fs1m3ryf2mu/20x7_map31_stuck_cl9.lmp?dl=0

 

You can also sr40 but you need to have a tighter angle.

[rehelekretep]

legend matey, thanks!

edit: @Ribbiks was that intentional?

Edited September 28, 2017 by rehelekretep
asking Ribbiks a q!

[Spectre01]

+++MM2

[Pirx]

+++ MM2 to make it more interesting?

 

i have barely touched my pc this month, talk about backlog...

[Capellan]

19 minutes ago, Pirx said:

+++ MM2 to make it more interesting

 

Great, now it's 9-9 and I may have to play after all, if MM2 actually gets up.  Somehow I will cope with that outcome :)

[Killer5]

+++ prcp (changed vote)

[dobu gabu maru]

17 minutes ago, Killer5 said:

+++ prcp (changed vote)

from what?

[Magnusblitz]

8 minutes ago, dobu gabu maru said:

from what?

 

He voted for Bloody Rust and some other stuff on page 6

Edited September 29, 2017 by Magnusblitz

[Spie812]

Gzdoom - UV Pistol Start - Saves

Map09 'The Lava Heart'

 

I find this map to be a bit easier than the last one, in a better sort of way. The theme continues with the dark metal theme introduced in the previous map. The environment is really well decorated and looks really good. The gameplay of the level is also excellent. Ammo and heath are rather plentiful so there's no issues to be found there. The map has a nice progression even while pistol starting, making the start of the level not be a total nightmare. I like all the battles that you run into throughout the map, including one with a cool set of crushers you can use to help thin the crowd a bit.

 

Overall, talking about the WAD in general, I found the first maps rather uninteresting to look at and not super fun. However, as I progress the quality of the levels just seems to consistently be improving. Map09 is probably now my favorite map in the set, but who knows what I'll think after map10.

Edited September 29, 2017 by Spie812

[NuMetalManiak]

MAP09 The Lava Heart

 

Well now isn't that deceptive, the lava doesn't hurt. But the monsters sure do. This is certainly a hard level. Still set-piece-y, still gives us combinations of monsters to attack more often than none. The weapons are given at the right moments, so there's no need to cheese everything. Enough space to move around, and some fair crushers too. Also a fair bit in the BFG room where you can telefrag some turrets. Keys weren't that hard to deal with. Everything about this is crowd control with non-damaging lava and for the most part it is quite enjoyable.

[bioshockfan90]

+++MM2

[Grain of Salt]

Crumpets MAP01: Earl Grey

 

 

Crumpets MAP02: Flutter

 

Imo, there's no point describing maps when you write posts for the DWMC. Anyone can load up the wad(s) in question, and most people have heard of the wads that get played, so saying "this is a hell map"/"this is hard"/"this was released in the 90s" is a waste of effort. Useful things to offer would be analysis, opinion, and something along the lines of playtesting feedback. Just my onion.

 

Anyway, with that in mind, MAP02 introduces you to what I think are the main tropes of Crumpets -- small non-linear quests, traps that can be triggered from multiple entrances, projectile snipers, and "ammo puzzles"... by which I mean situations where you're thinking something like "I could use these shells against those HKs or in that shotgunner trap, but not both". Actually, maybe these are more like general Ribbiks tropes. Who can say. 

 

Flutter seems to consist of just 2 compulsory areas and maybe five or six optional bits you can do if you want weapons/armor/ammo, which means there's a ton of different ways you could approach it, and if you die and get frustrated you can often think of a slightly more impatient way of getting things done, which is a quality I like in a map, and which particularly lends itself to saveless play imo. Most of the individual segments are fun mini-battles which aren't particularly dangerous unless you're as clumsy as I am. Special mention goes to the baron trap, which would maybe be more fun without a mancubus shooting over it, but is still pretty cool. I'm a big fan of cramped rockets-but-no-ssg baron fights, because you have to become acutely aware of the space around you in a way that doesn't exactly happen with other weapons (no splash) or monsters (because they either die too quickly to rockets or have weapons that change the dynamic completely). The yellow key trap seems like it would be absolute chaos if you don't have the plasma gun, but presumably it's doable if you have better movement skills.

 

Crumpets MAP03: Tiramisu

 

I was eating tiramisu when I played this, so I win. At first glance, MAP02 and 3 both give the appearance of being reasonably linear, but then you begin to notice places where the assumed linear progression is optional, and you can just skip to a later fight once you know where it is. As I see it, the ingenuity in this style of mapping is that the mapper has to make sure that the monsters in each encounter still produce good gameplay whenever they're woken and wherever they can move to, which is easier said than done. A cool, tense fight with hell knights can suddenly seem listless and trivial if you have a bit more space, health or weaponry... or if they get lost somewhere, or if they infight in a way that isn't fun to manage. It's not that you want every monster to be hard to kill, exactly, but you do want them to be fun to kill, and that can require covering a lot of angles if they can move freely. Being locked into an area is probably the simplest way to make a fight count, but that can be detrimental to the overall map flow... depending on execution and map style.

 

So far I think Crumpets is a good example of a mapper keeping all (or nearly all) of the map's opposition relevant no matter how they're approached, mostly without using lock-ins. Because they overlook you, monsters in the central area remain dangerous if you skip that area and go straight to the soulsphere, and trapped monsters all over the map remain dangerous because they're usually near useful cover. Walls and height differences aren't decoration, they affect gameplay all of the time, perhaps more than monsters themselves do, so jot that down :^)

 

I'm sure there's a secret in the revenant cellar area, but I have no idea how to open it. I watched a demo and I still don't know. This is Ribbiks' fault.

 

Crumpets MAP04: Cadbury's Creme Egg

 

First fight is quite mean. I'm sure I'm missing something, but I can't seem to survive it consistently. It's usually enough to ssg the manc to start with and let it instigate infighting, but sometimes it seems revs or demons just box me in. But if I survive the first few seconds it's a nice tense fight, and there's plenty of health to pick up afterwards, so it's not the end of the world. After the beginning, this map feels a little easier than the first two to me, probably because you have a little more ammo, and you start by clearing a safe area rather than being overlooked from various angles throughout the map. On the other hand, I did die to an imp fireball.

 

To Be Continued...

[rehelekretep]

bit late arent you? :D

only joking - im enjoying your musings very much (also the gifs)

[rehelekretep]

right im moving onto Rush because 20x7 m31/32 are just annoying me now

 

map01 fda

ok? this is a strange map. there are tons of imps following me about but unless im just blind and missed a weapon, am i really meant to cg/ssg them all? seems utterly boring. apparently my subconscious thought so for me and went for the exit switch that i consciously thought was a switch to open the door immediately after it! didnt find any secrets either despite religiously humping all the consoles i saw in the first third of the map.

[rehelekretep]

map02 fda

i want to talk here about the largest room in the map - with the mancubi/revs perched up high and the imps/spectres down below. this is - imo - terrible design. there is simply no reason to put yourself in danger by rushing into the room, you have ample rockets (from the rev/imp rocket trap just earlier) and a two-sided door so you can afford to run in and out to avoid damage. if you went to the AV/rev room and the rocket launcher first, then you probably have low enough health that a dive into the unknown would be risky. of course in a uv-max youd run through this room no problem (catered for by the switch that crushes the mancs near the end of the map) but for an fda or casual player its just silly.

fewer rockets, and a megasphere or BA, & an impassable drop into the arena would have made this a lot better imo, and wouldnt have affected the uv-max runner.

 

aside from that its an ok map, midi started to grate after a while though. there are also ample cheese opportunities throughout that i took advantage of :p so i wouldnt recommend watching this demo :D

Edited September 29, 2017 by rehelekretep