Historical/Informational AV Crap

[Vorpal]

Every 5 years or so I get nostalgic and poke around my AV dev hdd, and that happened again today and I got to thinking that I might be the last one around with this data. While AV is old hat in 2017, I find myself strangely curious about how other projects are developed, so maybe there are people out there interested in how this project was developed.

 

Today's dive into the archives features what I think are all of Mattias Berggren's works. The first two map03/04 made it into AV with extreme overhauls by Kim Malde, but I'd like to show what Mattias submitted... both as a representation of where the project's roots were as a HR tribute megawad, Mattias' individual skill and style, and when one compares to what AV published then Kim's hand can be seen.

 

The majority of the video showcases a completely cut work, map17, which is an obvious take on HR22. 

 

I had only made 1 or 2 maps prior to this project and Berggren's work here largely dictated the direction I went with my own maps - I wanted mine to fit in with his stylistically, and a bit of competition to see who could make the most bullshit map.

 

 

[Memfis]

Wow! Waiting for an UV-Max from the big boys.

[Andy Johnsen]

Fun to see the DM part of map03 again, I had completely forgotten about that :) I've been talking to Martin about making a little rundown vid of the various changes we did to AV, from the Alien Vindicta origins in 1996 until the finished product. Since there's a lot of cut versions and altered map versions one could dive into, and people seem to enjoy musings about old projects of the kind, it might be fun. I just need to get another project out of the way first, then we'll put something together.

I think I have all the map versions backed up still, from cut maps to just tidbits of planned ones. 

Map03 sure enjoyed a serious Malde overhaul, didn't it. That map17 version you see there was cut real late, it was actually moved to the map31 slot until we had Gemini and Ebola do the included three color creation (one of the last maps completed for the project).

Edited September 6, 2017 by Andy Johnsen

[Vorpal]

Hah I would be interested in what relics you could dig up, I doubt my collection is comprehensive.

 

Dare I feature a Johnsen work next? Crimson Tide pre-overhaul springs to mind as something the community might find interesting. Or perhaps something that the community never got to see, like the sedlo map or the fx map.

[Andy Johnsen]

23 minutes ago, Vorpal said:

Hah I would be interested in what relics you could dig up, I doubt my collection is comprehensive.

 

Dare I feature a Johnsen work next? Crimson Tide pre-overhaul springs to mind as something the community might find interesting. Or perhaps something that the community never got to see, like the sedlo map or the fx map.

That one went through the wringer a few times as well, yep. I don't wanna complicate your fun with this, but maybe it would be good to present these with a little bit of commentary as to why the different parts got changed specifically and what the reasoning for cutting the Croatian map was :) You decide on that, if you wanna go ahead and showcase feel free. I'd love to team up with you for some commentary tracks on these relics to give them a context perhaps. I'll hit you up on irc to discuss it further when I have the chance. That said, feel free to present what you desire, you have a pretty good idea of the backdrop for most of this - fun incentive.

[Vorpal]

On 9/6/2017 at 10:28 AM, Andy Johnsen said:

maybe it would be good to present these with a little bit of commentary

Ooh is someone volunteering? ;-P

 

But on a serious note I don't have a good setup for recording audio commentary, and it would add to the time and effort it takes to make these simple showcase vids - which is already very difficult for me, I'm lucky to get 45 uninterrupted minutes in a day. If you wanted to provide commentary that would be awesome (like an mp3 I could just embed in the stream). Or if you want to do something more serious and comprehensive that would be super fun too (though much more time consuming for lazy bitches like myself).

 

In any case I felt obligated to share at least one more ancient AV tidbit, since I was teasing about another earlier. A cut map by the AV wizard himself:

 

 

This was from before Andy recruited outsiders like myself, so I think he will have to elaborate on the timeline but my timestamp on it is nov 1, 1999. While it looks rudimentary and unpolished, this is representative of almost all our AV maps which got 2 and sometimes 3 major overhauls - but this one was cut before any of the overhaul "passes" we did on the project. Still, it's a fully functional map - one can see the kernel of what would become "Toxic Touch" at the beginning, and I believe the headboards of the sector-beds would become a throne in av28. I also took the ending and made a heavily abstracted version for the end of my Valley of Echoes remake in avbl, both visually and conceptually as "some bizarre secret chamber nestled deep within the structure". I haven't even told Andy this factoid BUT NOW YOU KNOW. Sorry for the incorrect door textures, they should be hexen doors I think but I dont have the old-as-tits AV resource wad, just a medium-ass-old one.

 

edit: by Toxic Touch I mean Nukefall, leaving that error in because I think it's funny I can mix that up as one who was on the damn team

 

superedit: it's not a 360p video, might take yt some time to process the HD stream, I should have waited before posting... oops

Edited September 7, 2017 by Vorpal

[Endless]

Such an amazing wad, one of my fav. 

[Andy Johnsen]

10 hours ago, Vorpal said:

edit: by Toxic Touch I mean Nukefall, leaving that error in because I think it's funny I can mix that up as one who was on the damn team

I think you actually mean Lake Poison :) Nukefall was an even earlier map than this. That said, this horrible mesh was one of my first attempts at "atmospheric" settings utilizing a new texture wad, I belive I made most of this back in 1996 and as such it's a good representative of my early, cringy efforts. 

As a little bit of trivia the indoor part of it was based on the Derceto Manor from Infogrames "Alone in the Dark", but you'd have to put some effort into seeing that when comparing the two!

[Vorpal]

Heh heh yep, Lake Poison ... 3rd time's the charm.

 

I wouldn't call it cringy but yeah it does have (entirely fixable) problems with gameplay/layout. The 90's sparse detail does not bother me, but of course it would not have met the presentation level we set for the final megawad.

 

An interesting thing about this map to me was, how when I joined (98 or 99?), there were like 25 Johnsen maps already so in theory "release" was right around the corner. When you were willing to just cut this and tons of other fully functional maps, inevitably adding YEARS to the release date, it sent a strong emotion to me: shock you'd trash so much of your own effort, respect that you could make hard decisions to make a better product, fear about my own map quality, and a motivation to improve my submissions.

[40oz]

If you guys would like a platform to talk about this stuff, I'd be happy to set up a WXR show with you guys so you can talk about it live.

[Deleted_Account]

Alien Vendetta is one my favorites, it's nice to see stuff like this! Thanks for sharing.

[Megalyth]

10 minutes ago, 40oz said:

If you guys would like a platform to talk about this stuff, I'd be happy to set up a WXR show with you guys so you can talk about it live.

AV is a golden classic, I would love to hear more about the development process.

[joepallai]

awesome thread, would love to know more from the developers