Maskim Xul - what the heck what is this doing on the front page

[Obsidian]

I may possibly rework the final boss so it calls KeenDie instead of BrainDie and have some voodoo doll shenanigans to end the map that way. Maybe something to do this weekend. :)

[Gez]

Oh well, given the nature of MAP04, perhaps I was just as well stuck in the boss pit. :p

 

Any reason why the maps are in a hub, by the way? The result is that in *ZDoom you hear three doors opening (since thanks to the hub nature of the map, you've kept all the keys you picked up in MAP02) while you're in the dark tunnel; instead of getting printed the cultish nonsense.

[Obsidian]

...Oh shit, I totally forgot that! I originally had it as a hub to remove the map numbers from the front of the map names in the automap: kind of weird, but that was the only option presented to me. That also had the advantage of seamless transportation between maps, which works for the first and second maps more than the third. :P I don't need the transitions all that much, but is there another way to remove the map numbers in ZDoom?

[Obsidian]

UPDAAAAAAATE!

 

I spent some time this weekend addressing bugs and tweaking a few things that I wanted to get first time around. Feedback is much appreciated!

[Suitepee]

https://www.twitch.tv/videos/219621967 = part 1. (maps 1 & 2)

https://www.twitch.tv/videos/219892611 = part 2. (the rest)

 

Ammo starvation was felt after about 10 or so minutes on map 2. The jack-in-the-boxes didn't feel like a good weapon for me, let alone as a plasma gun replacement. Some good ideas in here, and some that didn't work out so well. (particularly disappointed with the Rev swarm on the Grimoire fight in map 2, which could have been a cool fight all about using 'health' as ammo.....thank GOD for the Godsphere, which also made the fight trivial) Excellent visuals and atmosphere throughout.

[Obsidian]

Another update that takes Mr Suitepee's feedback into account, along with some more bugfixing. I really really hope I've got everything this time...

[Obsidian]

ONCE MORE, WITH FEELING!

 

Long story short, I was gonna make a MAP31 for shits and giggles and then decided against it. With any luck this should address pretty much everything.

 

Hey Suitepee, you feel like doing another pla- *Is shot*

[Obsidian]

HEY KIDS, DO YA LIKE VIOLENCE!?

 

Link.

 

Yeah, it's been a while: it's like I always say, life has a bad habit of getting in the way of the important stuff. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ Maybe after almost 4 years I can finally put this thing to rest. Feedback is always appreciated.

[Obsidian]

I noticed that Alfonzo linked to this in the Doom Radio post he did (and again, cheers heaps dude! =D), so I figured I should give this a bump. If anyone feels like giving this a shot and leaving feedback before I finally commit this thing to the archives, I'd be mighty grateful. Let's say...one more week? Yeah, that should do it.

[Obsidian]

Annnnnd uploaded! After almost 4 years, it's finally done and dusted! I'll supply an archive link on the OP once it clears.

[Obsidian]

IT'S HERE

[Tristan]

Cool, congrats on getting this done and dusted :) Thanks for the music request, it was a nice experience writing not-MIDI music for a change.

[Obsidian]

Quote

NOTICE: This thread has been dormant for more than three months. You should carefully consider if your reply is relevant enough to warrant bumping the thread.

 

Heh.

 

So after I uploaded Maskim Xul to the archives I instantly noticed a gaggle of things that slipped past the net: every time, I swear to heck. Fortunately I've finally gotten around to remedying them, so:

 

Update!

 

-Some niggles have been taken care of: texture misalignment, mostly

-Fixed some bugs: thanks @galileo31dos01!

-Updated the CREDITS lump in the wad

-Other miscellaneous "quality of life" updates

 

With any luck this is the last I'll see of Maskim Xul. Four freaking years, good heavens...

Edited September 26, 2018 by Obsidian

[Big Ol Billy]

Heh, just played this last weekend after many months of seeing it in my "WADS to play\high priority\play these first\OK seriously play these first\" folder. It's good, folks, and absolute must-play for puzzle and/or Lovecraft-aesthetic enthusiasts! If you managed to put off playing it even longer than me, help a Doomer out and give it a spin for 'sid. Maybe you'll even find a new bug or two for him to squash :P

[Obsidian]

ONE MORE TIME, FOLKS!

 

I think at this point I am content to call this the final (for reals this time) release of Maskim Xul. I've tweaked here, I've bugfixed there and at this point I think I'm happy enough with this to release it one last time. I'll update the IdGames link sometime before the end of the week.

Edited October 17, 2018 by Obsidian

[zzzornbringer]

i've been playing this map for the last 3 or so hours. lovecraftian theme? yea, i think i lost a bit of my sanity.

 

i'm a bit frustrated right now though. so, first i entered a room for a couple of boxes of shells. first like 6 or so reveneant types spawned, then a bunch of those reskinned hellknights that only do the melee and then to top it of two of those baron of hell reskins. i barely survived after countless quickloads. i expected there to be a major reward at the end but apparently it was just the shotgun shells. anyways... apparently i found a secret area a little later that teleported me to a room where tons of monsters are spawning. the game gave me that book item. sort of a bfg but it also damages me. i tried to survive a bit but there's spawning so much shit, i doubt it's possible. so, after like half an hour or so trying i said fuck it, iddqd. i killed every enemy. i explored the entire room but could not figure out how to get the spheres. there's nothing happening either. i don't know how i'm supposed to progress. is this the end? i'd really like to finish the map, even though i don't think i'm able to survive this encounter without godmode. any tips much appreciated.

Edited January 4, 2019 by zzzornbringer

[Obsidian]

Hey there! First off, cheers for giving Maskim Xul a shot. :)

 

Regarding that first area: that part of the map has you searching for a way to raise bars in front of a switch that allows you to escape. Going through that area raises half of the bars and there's a platforming bit close by that raises the other half. Keep looking around that area.

 

As for the secret area, it is both possible to beat without cheating and escapable (I...think that's a word?). Check for a hidden switch: the switch also serves to lower the Megaspheres, which serve as extra ammunition to clear out the room of any stragglers.

 

Hopefully this helps! I will admit that this map isn't the most intuitive of maps to traverse, eheh.

[zzzornbringer]

thanks. i gave it a couple more tries without cheats but couldn't bother anymore at some point. so i iddqd'd my way through this sequence and i actually found the hidden switch. obviously the last fucking bookshelve in the room. ;) i continued without cheats. until i reached the archvile segment. that's just mean dude. i have doubts anyone playtested and completed this on ultra violence. i mean, i lost count how many archviles there were. i spamed my way through it with the bfg item (with iddqd of course). even with this weapon it took ages. i'm sure there's some sort of gimmick that solved this encounter but i just said fuck it. more of this nonsense at the boss. iddqd. 

 

at the end there was a room with eyes but nothing happened. are you supposed to wait there until something happens? not very satisfying for an ending. if it was the end. i don't know.

 

aside from this i think the map is a masterpiece of design. although it does have problems with anti-intuitiveness. it's often not clear where to go next. it's a trial and error which can be frustrating. most of the time new enemies or items are spawned, so you know you're heading the right way. but that's not always the case.

 

then there's the difficulty. it was hard till that book segment. it is beatable but my patience ended there. then there was the archevile segment which was just unfair. it's not fun. it's masochistic. you know what can happen? even if you manage to avoid line of sight with the archs, just one hit that elevates you into the air and you're in line of sight which means you're dead. so, it's pretty much an instant kill scenario. even with god mode it took quite a while to kill all of the archviles. so, i don't know. it's not a fun encounter. i think there's not a lot of people who are willing to go through this punishment. to me it was also frustrating, because i managed to get to that point without cheats (almost). i spent a lot of time getting there just to run into a brick wall. i would've put maybe three archviles there and lot's of imps and pinkys. that still would've given you trouble without being completely unfair.

 

so, yea, anyways, i went through it. had a good time, til near the end. it was quite a journey. i completely forgot that the map started with a tech layout. oh boy. a journey indeed. and a unique atmosphere which is very hard to achieve. downsides: hard to maneuver and difficulty spike at the end. (also, bugged ending?)

Edited January 5, 2019 by zzzornbringer

[Obsidian]

Nah, the ending's supposed to be like that: if I let the player go into the stock maps it'd look kinda weird.

[VanaheimRanger]

I want to know what tips Mechadon gave you for making "hilariously oversized maps" :)

[Obsidian]

I can pass them on to you if you like, with @Mechadon's permission of course.

[Mechadon]

Hey uh...I don't even remember what I said hahaha!  Of course please pass on whatever tips I gave, hopefully they are still useful :)

[zzzornbringer]

icarusliv3s posted a youtube video about the map:

 

 

[Obsidian]

Heh, I've been linked to it a few times. I actually left a comment on it yesterday, so feel free to read that if you want my thoughts.

[Atticus Zed]

Alright, just finished this mod myself. I wanted to stop by and give my full thoughts on it.

 

 

So of course they can be summarized with a solid 🤔.

 

But in all seriousness this mod is incredible. It's like if Ed Cripps took steroids and made Putrefier and Valhalla into a whole game. The start leads in strong and puts you on edge with frantic music and no weapons, only to follow it up with a quiet, contemplative respite in the Library.

 

I mention Ed Cripps again because the man has a very particular style. Large, sprawling levels, cramped corridors with challenging enemy encounters, lots of switch puzzles, gradually-developing tension that ramps up alongside the challenge, borderline bastardly ambushes...and this epitomizes all of that.

 

I absolutely love the Library. Despite its size and content being enough to fill an entire episode of Doom, and it's winding and labyrinthine design, it has so many memorable locations and landmarks that I very rarely felt myself truly lost. It almost felt like an adventure game with all of the puzzles and backtracking.

 

And the secrets! Finding all the secrets (or 11/13 at least) was such a good feeling. There are a lot of secrets in these games that are poorly telegraphed or excessively obtuse, but the secrets in this game give you just enough to work with to make you feel like brilliant when you discover them. I suppose the slightly confusing and puzzly level design helps to put people's mind to being more observant as well - perhaps why I found so many on my first run-through.

 

And of course the enemy encounters. I'm going to be honest, I do take some issue with these. The challenge ramps up very smoothly and nicely to a point where the game feels comfortably difficult...but it kinda just...keeps ramping up past that. To the point where the game exceeds simple challenge at some point and crosses over into outright bastardry with some of these fights. I knew how to beat the Grimoire challenge (though it could have done with some telegraphing like a slowly descending platform), but I cheated it and went godmode to kill every monster in that bit just for the sake of catharsis. Almost every fight in the boss level demands you save before it because it's absolutely going to kill you the first time through. I actually had a White Soul spawn on top of me and I died instantly in one instance. You know exactly which one.

 

I may have actually really enjoyed the Archvile Library if it didn't make me re-do that last Archvile spawn three seperate times from different locations. I actually liked the tension and the close combat - trying to sneak jackboxes around the corner, slipping around and popping shots on Archviles with my Super Shotgun and having the balls to stand in a charging Archvile's sightline as I finish him off with a fireball - but the tedium of that bit and the balcony Archviles at the start before the switch throws you into the chaos kind of ruined it for me.

 

Lastly the weapons were all great. I did notice how much more splash is on those fireballs and I really appreciate it, and I really liked the concept of the high-risk, high-reward Jackbox. That Grimoire was an amazing take on the BFG too. Of course the dual pistols were a welcome addition to help them keep better pace with the other weapons and not make the opening a slog.

 

If I could make a suggestion though, it would be nice to have the timer on the Jackbox a little lower - about 10 or 15% - to make it just a little bit easier to land. Also, it would be a nice QoL if the Grimoire ignored armor completely and just took off a flat 25 or 30 health. When you're using health as a resource, it's nice to know exactly how much you're going to have to spend, and having that leftover armor would make it a little safer to use in the instance you put yourself in danger.

 

 

The final boss was appropriately epic, but almost demanded being cheesed out towards the end. The second half is technically doable I suppose if you identify any Archviles and focus them down when they spawn before continuing to attack the boss, but that can be a lot of busywork.

 

He also throws out a lot of attacks for a boss that you can just circle strafe, but I guess that he's (ironically) helping you out by cleaning up and aggroing the other enemies.

 

Overall, in spite of the brutal difficulty spikes and borderline trolling setups, this was a game I came away from...satisfied and appreciative.

 

I heard you have another project in the works. If it's anything like this, I can't wait to play through it! Heck, even if it's not, you've clearly got the chops to try your hands at anything in the Doom modding community and succeed!

 

 

Edited October 3, 2019 by Atticus Zed
I forgot to mention how cool the secrets were

[Obsidian]

Thanks for the feedback @Atticus Zed! I'd definitely agree with you regarding the difficulty and bastardiousness: I've always had a less than disciplined approach to gameplay and sometimes it can be to the detriment of the overall experience. It's something I'm still working on, even 7 years later. :P I'm glad that you enjoyed yourself though, it's something that I poured a lot of myself into.

 

The Grimoire one is actually a bit less simple: to put it simply, the weapon itself fires an invisible projectile that "bites" you before firing BFG tracers at what you're firing at. There isn't a way in Boom-compatible wads to make a weapon directly use life as ammunition, so this was the closest approximation that I could construct. That is an excellent point though and it makes me slightly tempted to make some sort of ZDoom-exclusive add-on that does exactly that.

 

As for future projects: nothing I'm working on is nearly as huge as Maskim Xul, but I'd like to hope that people enjoy them all the same. Thanks again for playing. :)

Edited October 3, 2019 by Obsidian

[plums]

Forgive the bump but I played through this today and absolutely loved it. Most of what I've played of yours is short and speedy affairs, from before I last went MIA, so it was great to see something fully fleshed out. Beyond that though it was just a really great set of maps. I'm glad the people who didn't "get it" didn't discourage you because I love puzzley exploration-heavy stuff like this and I think it's something that works really well in Doom, at least for the people who enjoy it. I also liked the narrative between the maps; the details are sparse but there's enough to convey a general sense of a story, or at least enough hints of one that your brain can fill in the gaps.

 

I didn't think things were too devious in general, apart from one moment fairly early in MAP03 where some grey lost souls pop in out of nowhere and then blow up which was definitely a dick move. But otherwise the combat was fun and paired well with the style of the other parts of the map. The end boss had maybe too much health though, it felt like I wasn't getting anywhere with it for a long time. Since other people have commented on ammo balance, I'll say it felt generally fine, with it getting pretty low at the start but only enough to make me cautious. I didn't pistol start MAP03 though, it probably would have been much tighter if I had.

 

My biggest complaint is the Jackbox bug in PrB+; it's already a tough weapon to use effectively, and setting it up only for it to fizzle out made using it pretty frustrating. Obviously you're not entirely to blame for that, but it was still annoying and made me wish I played it in ZDoom. I know that elaborate Dehacked work is your thing, but it seems like if you're aiming to make it work in Boom, then it should actually work in Boom; otherwise, you might as well just embrace Decorate and not worry about any of this compatibility nonsense.

 

Anyhow an excellent set of maps all around and well deserving of the Cacoward.

 

BTW have you played Hexen yet? I feel like it would be right up your alley. There's, like, at least two library areas!

[Obsidian]

I have indeed played Hexen: went through as the Cleric many a moon ago and enjoyed myself a fair bit once I was shot of Seven Portals. :P

 

And thanks for playing through Maskim Xul! I definitely agree that the Jackbox bug is annoying, but I never did figure out what caused it and considering how its functionality was somewhat uncharted territory (about the closest I can think of would be the Batman Doom firebombs and those had their fair share of problems too) I didn't really have any prior knowledge to go off of. It's a regrettable thing, but after 4 or so years of build time it was something that I just had to live with for the sake of sanity.

[DrR0Ck]

Hi there!  I am absolutely loving this wad so far!  I have run into an issue where I am seeing a black box around one of the Acolytes.  The prior ones rendered just fine.  I am running a recent dev build of gzDoom and wondering if anyone else has seen similar issues and whether there is a way to fix it.

 

Also, apologies if it's inappropriate to bump a fairly dormant thread.

 

Thanks!

Spoiler

 

Edited August 15, 2020 by DrR0Ck
Spoiler image

[morrigan]

I've just finished this after an extended break from Doom since the title was on my mind lately, and I have to say it was a wonderful, extremely engaging first WAD to be played in a long time for me. I'm sorry for bumping this old thread, just wanted to send some words of appreciation towards this wad, as it never got dull aside from a few brief moments, and I had a ton of fun playing it and appreciating the level design, the amazing music and the atmosphere. I have to say that I particularly enjoyed the lack of outside areas with variously textured terraces as a main geographic feature, I just extremely dislike this modern WAD trope with a passion.

The rotating sequences are a work of art.

The jackbombs didn't see a lot of use from me, however I loved the concept itself and the weapon's use as a trap.

The last boss was again a ton of fun, however I did have some trouble with the archies. I ran out of health and powerups halfway through so it was a very tight squeeze to the end. I had to finish Shub with the chaingun.

Disclaimer: I played on ITYTD.

I have a few questions for which I don't really expect an answer, but here's hoping for. @Obsidian

First, what is this secret about? It was amusing but I don't know the context.

Second, what is the purpose of MAP30? Seems to be the same as MAP05 but without the introductory sequence.

Thank you so much for making this WAD. I truly believe it's one of the greatest of all time.