SOSU's guide for Heretic monster usage.

[SOSU]

Hello and welcome to SOSU's guide for Heretic monster usage!
This is a title thread i made for people that want to make maps for Heretic but are confused on how to use Heretic's bestary efficiently,hope you enjoy!:

Gargoyle:

Heretic's lost soul but it doesn't deal charge damage,it flies around and then charges at the player to be near enough to start hitting them with it's melee attack.Because of it's low health the player can easily kill it even with the wand so i recommend using it in big groups to make it dangerous.

Fire Gargoyle:

The bigger brother of the normal gargoyle,instead of charging at the player it shoot's a weak projectile.Due to it basically being a flying Doom Imp with a weaker attack it is good in big hordes in big rooms because they can be pushed away in the fight which makes dodging their projectiles harder since they are more spread out.

Golem:
The weak melee monster of the bunch,it's slow and weak but is good for when you want to use a Pinky Demon style monster early on.Since it's slow and can only attack you from close using it in small areas where they are hard to escape from is best for them.
Golem Ghost
Just the normal Golem but this version can't be hit my some weapons like the Staff,Phoenix Rod,FireMace and the side bolts of the Crossbow but also can't be hit by the Undead Warrior projectiles.

NitroGolem:

It's a Golem that Sh00ts!!!It is a normal Golem but now it can shoot a lightly homing weak projectile which is good for the player to dodge in many directions.Good in medium sized areas since they player can move freely but it doesn't make the projectiles total pushovers.
NitroGolem Ghost

It's a Ghost Golem that Sh00ts!!!It's just like the normal Nitro Golem but it also has the abilities of Ghost monsters.

 

Undead Warrior:

This is the first really interesting Heretic monster,it has the health of a Pinky Demon and can also shoot 2 projectiles of which one of them has the ability to be a powered up red version which deals much more damage.Since it is a HellKnight style beefy monster i recommend using it in small areas or use a lot of them in large ones.
Undead Warrior Ghost
Instead of just being a ghost variant like all the other ones the Undead Warrior Ghost has something unique about it!Instead of shooting the high damage projectiles rarely like it's still alive counterpart this one only shoots the high damage ones making it much much more threatening.

Disciple of D'Sparil:
The Disciple is a mid-tier flying monster which shoots 3 purple projectiles that go in different directions,it is a very versatile  monster which can be used in all kinds of areas ranging from small hallways were you need to kill it before it kills you to massive outdoor areas where it's projectiles fill the place because they are so many.The projectiles alone don't deal much damage but if all 3 hit you at the same time it can deal some massive damage!

 

Sabreclaw:
The most boring out of the bunch,it's litteraly just a cooler looking Pinky Demon with a much smaller painchance which makes using the gauntlets on them useless and a lighter weight which makes them fly around the map after it get's in contact with a Phoenix Rod projectile.If you know anything about the Pinky Demon then you know about the Sabreclaw so i don't have anything to add here.

Weredragon:
Some call this a worse Undead Warrior but i think differently about it!The thing that makes the Weredragon unique is it's speed,it moves fast,it shoots fast and even it's projectile is fast making it able to hit you sometimes if you aren't focused and even dodge some of your projectile based attacks!It's basically a super DoomImp in my opinion and a good monster in a lot of situations (also it fit's the cave theme a lot so it's good to use them instead of Undead Warriors in those areas)

Ophidian:

The Proto-Arachnotron,it shoots a set of weak projectiles in a line and then a single stronger one at the end.It's a good monster if used in small groups which can create an Arachnotron style setup but it can be fun to fight even alone,medium areas are recommended for it but nothing is stopping you to make interesting Ophidian fights wherever you want!

 

Iron Lich:

How the Baron should have been,the Iron lich is the first boss of Heretic (which is fought i different sets based on what difficulty you are playing Heretic at.) and it's a very well made monsters.It has 3 different attacks,a basic wall of fire which deals a lot of damage,the ice ball which shatters into tiny parts if it hits a wall,enemy or the player and the infamous homig tornado which throws the player through the stage and deals continuous damage,these three attacks make the Lich the most versatile enemy of the game which can be in all kinds of areas and be everything from an early game mid-boss up to a frequent end game enemy.

Maulotaur:

The flagship boss,the Maulotaur is the second boss of Heretic and a versatile (not as much as the Iron Lich though) boss enemy.It has 3 attacks,the charge which is a really dangerous melee attack,the wave of of projectiles which is a good attack to hit moving targets and the almighty FIRE LINE OF INSTANT DEATH which does what the name says.Like any good enemy should it can be used everywhere but use it sparingly since fighting 300 Maulotaurs in every map can get boring fast.

D'Sparil:

The in my opinion worst Heretic monster D'Sparil the first Serpent Rider.As the title says he rides a serpent,a Chaos Serpent to be exact which is the first phase of his boss fight where he shoots fireballs at you,his second for howhever is more interesting  being able to teleport to different specific locations of the map and spawning Disciples time after time.The biggest flaw with D'Sparil though is that after he dies every other monster dies with him too which makes using more than one of them pretty hard to do and turns him into a Icon of Sin which is mostly used on the final map which can get rather boring and predicteable.

 

General Monster Use:

Due to Heretic being a special snowflake of an FPS there are three ways to kill monsters,the first is to just use your good old weapons ranging from the Staff up to the FireMace,Due to the weapons being good old Doom reskins you can have encounters simmiliar to Doom 1 though if you want to start with small Wand vs Gargoyles/Golem fights then i recommend using low numbers since they are a bit beefier than the weak Doom monsters.The second way is using items  (which usually mixes with the first way) the 2 most powerful and useful of them are the Time Bomb and Morph Ovum (The Tome will come later ;) ) the Time Bomb is does a ton of damage and easily dispatches the weaker foes and with just a few of them you can easily kill everything below a lich health wise,the Morph Ovum on the other hand doesn't deal damage instead it transforms enemies into chicken which weakens large groups of non-boss monsters.Finally we have the 3rd and final way which is the TOME OF POWER!!!An item which turns the balance upside down and turns even the weakest weapon into a mass slaughter machine >:D
Basically what i want to say is use lots of monsters in Heretic but don't forget to give the player also lots of items!

 

Hope you had fun reading this!Of course these aren't the only rules you should follow,look at these more as recommendations as to how to use Heretic's monsters.If you want to add something to this thread them just post more tips for enemy usage and correct some of my stuff!

Edited January 21, 2018 by SOSU

[leodoom85]

What can drop the monsters sometimes? Here I go

- Gargoyle/Fire Gargoyle: Wand crystal ammo x 3

- Golems/Nitrogolems: Same as above

- Undead and ghost Knight: Ethereal crossbow ammo x 5

- Sabreclaw: Hellstaff ammo x 10

- Weredragon: Eth. crossbow ammo x 10 (that's great)

- Disciple: Dragon Claw ammo x 10 and rarely a tome of power

- Ophidian: Phoenix rod ammo x 5 (pretty cool)

- Iron liches: Morph Ovum and I think a tome of power too (correct me if I'm wrong)

- Maulotaur: Phoenix rod ammo x 5 and I think, in a rare drop, a mystic urn

 

- D'Sparil can't drop shit.........that bastard..... :p

[ETTiNGRiNDER]

53 minutes ago, leodoom85 said:

- Iron liches: Morph Ovum and I think a tome of power too (correct me if I'm wrong)

Morph Ovum or Claw Orb ammo.

 

1 hour ago, SOSU said:

Gargoyle:

Heretic's lost soul,it flies around and then charges at the player.Because of it's low health the player can easily kill it even with the wand so i recommend using it in big groups to make it dangerous.

One problem with the Gargoyle = Lost Soul analogy is that, the charging gargoyle actually does no missile damage!  Having one charge into your face will make you do the pain grunt (and I believe annoys monsters into infighting) but he has to start actually clawing at you to do real damage.

 

I think likening the Disciple to a Cacodemon sells him short a bit.  Getting smacked with all three of his projectiles hurts a lot (up to 72 damage if they all do max damage, vs 40 for max damage of a Caco shot) and the spread shot means it's harder to dodge getting winged by at least one.  And to top it off, they're a semi-ghost monster (when they flicker in preparation for an attack, they temporarily get the ghost protections).  He's truly one of the nastiest non-BOSS-flagged monsters in the game.  Maybe the ghost knights can compete for that title but little else can.

 

There's a trick with fighting Undead Warriors and that's that their projectiles can't hit ghosts.  That can both be bad for you (when they're guarded by other ghosts which they can shoot through to hit you) or good for you (if you have a Shadowsphere, which temporarily makes you into a ghost yourself, so that it's like a toned-down invulnerability that just works against knight axes).

 

There are some other item/monster combinations that are good to think of as well.  Time Bombs can devastate clusters of gargoyles and/or golems.  Morph Ovum is good for trimming tanky enemies like Ophidians and Weredragons down to a more manageable HP level before you blow them away.

[Not Jabba]

2 hours ago, SOSU said:

Just the normal Golem but this version can't be hit my some weapons like the Staff,Phoenix Rod,FireMace and tthe side bolts of the Crossbow but also can't be hit by the NitroGolem or Undead Warrior projectiles.

The Golem Ghost (and other ghosts) can be hit by the Nitrogolem's attack. In vanilla Heretic, different types of Golems can even infight with each other.

 

 

1 hour ago, leodoom85 said:

What can drop the monsters sometimes? Here I go

- Sabreclaw: Hellstaff ammo x 10

- Iron liches: Morph Ovum and I think a tome of power too (correct me if I'm wrong)

- Maulotaur: Phoenix rod ammo x 5 and I think, in a rare drop, a mystic urn

 

Sabreclaw: Hellstaff ammo x 20

Iron Lich: Morph Ovum or Dragon Claw ammo x10 (no tome)

Maulotaur: Phoenix Rod ammo x 10 or Mystic Urn

[Uni]

2 hours ago, leodoom85 said:

What can drop the monsters sometimes? Here I go

- Gargoyle/Fire Gargoyle: Wand crystal ammo x 3

If I remember correctly, neither of the Gargoyle versions drop anything.

[SOSU]

@ETTiNGRiNDER @Not Jabba Thanks for the feedback :D i will edit my posts and maybe even add some more tips tomorrow with your guy's stuff in mind.

[Halfblind]

Gargoyles/Fire Gargoyles:

On map E2M7: Sky Gateway in the Heretic Treasure Chest there was a room with hundreds of these guys. It took me quite a while to disband all of them. I would like to see a level where someone teams up 40 of them with 10 Disciples of D'Sparil. I would also like to see a hoard of them teamed up with D'Sparil himself. That would make them more challenging. They indeed only drop their dead body when they die. You don't need much to take down these guys, just the wand, untomed crossbow, or dragon claw. I have never had much opportunities to use a tomed wand though.

 

Golem/NitroGolem:

I think these guys are best used in dark areas and tight spaces so that way it would pose a challenge when the player tries to dodge their skull and melee attacks. I think these guys are well teamed up with the Gargoyles, Undead Warriors and the Sabreclaws. They are easily disbanded with the time bomb. I like using the wand and crossbow on these guys.

 

Undead Warrior:

In The Crypts by Robert Eckhardt he used these enemies like they were meant to be used. On the last room where you pick up the blue key he had a hoard of ghost undead warriors enter the room and the only way to have enough ammo to deal with them all was to use the morph ovum. Otherwise you ran out of ammo and health quick. I pretty much stick with the crossbow dealing with these guys.

 

Disciple of D'Sparil:

I once built a small room where shortly after dealing with some Golems and Gargoyles you used a switch revealing 4 Disciples. You had to defeat all 4 of them before the door opened back up and you can leave the room. This was suppose to be used as a small boss battle in the middle of the level. I use mostly the dragon claw, powered or unpowered when besting these enemies. On occasion I will use the crossbow or the hellstaff.

 

Sabreclaw:

I think these guys could be best used in dark areas, where you have to use the torch to see them or in a pit where they can ambush you. I think they can also be used well with the Ophidians. I stick mostly stick with the crossbow with these guys.

 

Weredragon:

These guys are a big pushover. The Chaos Serpents from Hexen were a much better enemy. I assume these guys prefer hanging out in lava areas and in caves. If I could choose between these guys or the Chaos Serpents I would choose the Serpents any day. These guys are also crossbow only.

 

Ophidian:

These guys are more tougher than you think they are. Though they are about as strong as the Undead Warrior I find it best to take them out from afar. If you put 4 or more in a room they begin to pose a much greater challenge. I mostly use the dragon claw with these enemies.

 

Iron Lich:

Their most annoying attack is their wind attack. I find myself in a frantic sometimes trying to get away from it. Sometimes it is easier to go strait at it instead of trying to dodge it. This enemy is best used in pairs. Single ones are easily taken down by a few shots from a tombed up cross bow. I prefer using the tomed crossbow or the unpowered phoenix rod when dealing with these enemies. I find those to be most effective.

 

Maulotaur:

Somehow fighting the Maulotaur doesn't seem all that annoying as the Cyberdemon from Doom. Sure the instant death attack is very powerful when you take it head on but if you only catch the tail of it you can recover well from a quartz flask. I hate it when an author uses 40 of them in the same room. They were designed to be used in pairs just like the Minotaur that guard the labyrinth of Minos. I find the most effective weapons against these guys are the tomed crossbow and the unpowered hellstaff.

 

D'Sparil:

D'Sparil's lightning attack is very similar to the Cyberdemons missile attack in which it flies strait at you and does a lot of damage. I remember playing a random map from Magic and Mayhem where the author put over 20 of them in a room. I quit that map after dying multiple times. If you put 2 or more D'Sparil's in a map together once you kill one you kill them all. If they are on the serpent you only have to kill 1 more D'Sparil in order to kill them all. Sometimes if he is summoning the Disciples when he dies they will stay alive even after you kill him. The most interesting battles with D'Sparil that I have seen were in Hoards of Chaos. The only shit this jerk drops is his dead skeleton when he dies. With the serpent form I use the powered up crossbow but when D'Sparil is using his teleport spell I use the powered up dragon claw. This seems to force him into his pain state restricting him from teleporting too often.

 

Additional Note:

I think that maybe using the weapon on the enemy that goes with the type of ammo that they drop might be the developers preferred weapon when defeating them. If that makes sense.

 

[riderr3]

By my personal mapping experience, Heretic monster usage must be something similar like Doom 1 (in some cases). There even no hitscanners who can kill the players instantly, no BFG alternative and no Arch-Vile derivatives.

[94's the best style]

19 hours ago, riderr3 said:

By my personal mapping experience, Heretic monster usage must be something similar like Doom 1 (in some cases). There even no hitscanners who can kill the players instantly, no BFG alternative and no Arch-Vile derivatives.

Why did nobody tell me that Heretic is literally Doom heaven?

[Not Jabba]

48 minutes ago, 94's the best style said:

Why did nobody tell me that Heretic is literally Doom heaven?

I've said it before and I'll say it again: people who don't like how Doom is balanced around a few really challenging monster types will probably enjoy Heretic (or maybe Hexen) more. It's a much more forgiving game, with nothing that can kill you instantly and nothing that's overly difficult to dodge.

Edited January 17, 2018 by Not Jabba

[ETTiNGRiNDER]

21 hours ago, Halfblind said:

Undead Warrior:

In The Crypts by Robert Eckhardt he used these enemies like they were meant to be used. On the last room where you pick up the blue key he had a hoard of ghost undead warriors enter the room and the only way to have enough ammo to deal with them all was to use the morph ovum. Otherwise you ran out of ammo and health quick. I pretty much stick with the crossbow dealing with these guys.

Crossbow is good against the standard Undead Warriors, sure, but is a less optimal choice against ghost monsters because of their immunity to the small side bolts.  Usually for a bunch of ghostly warriors I'd break out the hellstaff if I have it, or else the dragon claw.

 

On another note, I haven't tried this but one potentially interesting implication of D'Sparil's "when I die my minions die" property is that it should be possible to use him as the boss of any episode without port extensions.  Stick one of whatever the boss of the episode is "supposed" to be off in a closet somewhere detached from the map and let D'Sparil's death trigger killing it; ought to work unless he somehow overrides their special death action.

[SOSU]

Some more info :D

General Monster Use:

Due to Heretic being a special snowflake of an FPS there are three ways to kill monsters,the first is to just use your good old weapons ranging from the Staff up to the FireMace,Due to the weapons being good old Doom reskins you can have encounters simmiliar to Doom 1 though if you want to start with small Wand vs Gargoyles/Golem fights then i recommend using low numbers since they are a bit beefier than the weak Doom monsters.The second way is using items  (which usually mixes with the first way) the 2 most powerful and useful of them are the Time Bomb and Morph Ovum (The Tome will come later ;) ) the Time Bomb is does a ton of damage and easily dispatches the weaker foes and with just a few of them you can easily kill everything below a lich health wise,the Morph Ovum on the other hand doesn't deal damage instead it transforms enemies into chicken which weakens large groups of non-boss monsters.Finally we have the 3rd and final way which is the TOME OF POWER!!!An item which turns the balance upside down and turns even the weakest weapon into a mass slaughter machine >:D
Basically what i want to say is use lots of monsters in Heretic but don't forget to give the player also lots of items!

[Black Star]

Nice write up!  Something like this but for HeXen would make an interesting and helpful read as well.

[SOSU]

5 minutes ago, Black Star said:

Nice write up!  Something like this but for HeXen would make an interesting and helpful read as well.

Thanks :) well i will probably make something like this for Hexen when i start getting into Hexen mapping.

[therektafire]

Do you think you could do a tutorial on Strife mapping as well? I decided to try to make a Strife map since this game seems pretty cool and there don't seem to be very many wads for it in comparison to say Heretic or obviously Doom, but I've never played it before so I don't really know what the bestiary and armory is like, I have made a little test map to look at stuff and there are a couple of things I found out like, there are waaaaay too many key cards :D You could keep players running around for hours in a map with an all keys required door with the amount of keys the game has lol. Unless certain keys can only be used on certain map slots which would kind of suck. Oh and the developers obviously like rockets, there are several enemies that feel like revenant/cyber replacements that fire really fast homing rockets. And the texture set is pretty underwhelming imo, especially the outdoor textures which seem to be really lacking, most of them are techbase or castle themed with most of the more rocky textures being pretty dull and samey, you can't even make a proper hell map since there is no lava texture ;(

[SOSU]

14 hours ago, therektafire said:

Do you think you could do a tutorial on Strife mapping as well? I decided to try to make a Strife map since this game seems pretty cool and there don't seem to be very many wads for it in comparison to say Heretic or obviously Doom, but I've never played it before so I don't really know what the bestiary and armory is like, I have made a little test map to look at stuff and there are a couple of things I found out like, there are waaaaay too many key cards :D You could keep players running around for hours in a map with an all keys required door with the amount of keys the game has lol. Unless certain keys can only be used on certain map slots which would kind of suck. Oh and the developers obviously like rockets, there are several enemies that feel like revenant/cyber replacements that fire really fast homing rockets. And the texture set is pretty underwhelming imo, especially the outdoor textures which seem to be really lacking, most of them are techbase or castle themed with most of the more rocky textures being pretty dull and samey, you can't even make a proper hell map since there is no lava texture ;(

It fills me with happiness getting those kind of requests <3 sadly I don't much about Strife too so I can't help you with that :C 

 

Due to recent requests and it being weekend now I will be working on SOSU's guide for Doom and Hexen monster usage :D (Two separate threads) 

 

I also wonder if anyone will ask me for a guide on Hacx monster usage :o

[SOSU]

@Black Star Hey i made a guide for Hexen :)

It may interest you.

[Black Star]

On 1/27/2018 at 11:53 AM, SOSU said:

@Black Star Hey i made a guide for Hexen :)

It may interest you.

Oh yeah!  Awesome.  Keep up the good work, kind sir. 

[Not Jabba]

Just wanted to add my thoughts on the monsters, since it can't hurt to have more ideas/perspectives. This is just my personal take on how they all fit into Heretic level design, and is partly rooted in my mapping style and the things I like/dislike about working with vanilla Heretic that fueled my gameplay rebalance, so feel free to take it with a grain of salt.

 

Super Useful Monsters:

 

Nitrogolems: People always say these guys are the "Revenants of Heretic," but imo they're completely different. Because they have low health, are slower, and are *much* easier to dodge than Revenants, they occupy a very different gameplay niche. Instead of being high-tier enemies, they're essentially Imps that you have to be more careful around, as you have to strafe a little harder to shake the projectiles on the first pass and they can often loop back around like boomerangs and come for you again. I consider these along with UWs to be the most basic frequent-use enemies in Heretic, as long as the player has some decent room to move -- since they're a little more dangerous, you generally don't want to use as many of them as you would with Imps, which is just fine because they're also a little tankier. The ghost variants don't add much but can be useful for pushing the player to change up their weapon management.

 

Undead Warriors: The most basic enemy in the game, but definitely tankier than Imps, so they shouldn't be spammed too much. Good in occasional large groups; good for creating mixed projectile patterns along with Nitros, Disciples, and Ophidians; good for using in conjunction with ghost enemies, since their projectiles are the only ones that pass through ghosts; and good for casual incidental combat. I like the way their projectiles vary, and I like that the ghost variant is significantly more powerful/dangerous, so that you can almost treat it like a different enemy.

 

Disciples: The most significant threat in the game in terms of their ability to damage the player -- mainly in groups, but they can also be deadly alone or in pairs/trios if space is limited. In large numbers, their patterned attacks can fill up a space and require a lot of maneuvering to survive, and in smaller numbers they are excellent support for other enemies. Their moderate speed and ability to fly also makes them more versatile than, say, a Mancubus. A large wave of Disciples is the single most dangerous situation I've been able to find using vanilla Heretic monsters, especially when accompanied by Nitrogolems or other projectile patterns.

 

 

Redundant/Niche Monsters: 

 

Gargoyles and Fire Gargoyles: To me, the melee Gargoyle is nearly useless. Because its main ranged attack brings it closer to you but doesn't actually do damage, it's basically just a less effective version of the Fire Gargoyle -- and the Fire Gargoyle itself is basically a redundant weaker version of the Disciple. For this reason, I don't use Gargoyles very often, and I certainly don't consider them to work well as a basic Imp-like enemy. However, the Fire Gargoyle does have some good niche uses. They're harder to hit than other enemies, and the fact that they get knocked so far away by the player's weapons means they tend to disappear from combat and then reappear later. Essentially, they are harasser enemies, and because their health is low they don't overstay their welcome too much. They're also good for when you want a swarm of flying enemies, but Disciples would be too overwhelming. This situation also provides the one good use I've found for melee Gargoyles so far -- mix a few of them in with the larger swarm of FGs, and a player trying to control the crowd with a Phoenix Rod could be in for a surprise as the melee Gargoyle charges into their face.

 

Golems: Since the Sabreclaw is a better melee enemy and Golems aren't fast enough to catch the player, I barely use them at all. They can be nice to have around for the first couple levels of a mapset, and occasionally they're better blockers than Sabreclaws due to their slightly greater width and lower speed, but that's about it. Sure, you can mix them with Nitrogolems and leave the player guessing which ones are dangerous -- but you know what's even more dangerous than that? Using only Nitrogolems.

 

Sabreclaws: A good basic melee enemy that doesn't function as similarly to the Pinky as you might think. Their damage is very low, but they hit quickly, and their low pain chance means that they can potentially be difficult to shrug off. That said, the player is still a huge amount faster than they are, and they are narrower than Pinkies, which makes them less good at blocking player movement. All these attributes work together to make the Sabreclaw largely ineffective as a standard enemy, but *very* effective as a swarm enemy. If they back you into a corner, you're screwed, so large numbers can be a serious threat -- especially in conjunction with more individually dangerous enemies such as Iron Liches (i.e., you want to focus on killing those enemies first, but that can give the Sabreclaws time to become a significant danger to you and start boxing you in). Outside of these swarm situations, I don't use them very frequently, but they are fine for incidental combat.

 

Weredragons: Basically just a slightly more powerful undead warrior -- though if you really want a more threatening single-shot enemy, it's usually better to use UW ghosts. Weredragons are faster than UWs, and their projectiles travel faster, and this can make them more useful in certain situations, but the differences aren't super significant. They can also sometimes work well for blocking player movement due to their larger width, but because they're fast, they'll usually move through a doorway or other narrow space too quickly to be useful in this way, unless you use a lot of them. Like SOSU, I recommend using them primarily as a flavor enemy -- stick them in caves or lava maps as fun, thematically appropriate enemy variant.

 

Ophidians: In theory their projectile pattern seems interesting, but because the projectiles are so closely spaced, they're not much different from a regular one-shot enemy like the UW or Weredragon -- all you have to do is strafe a little farther to avoid all the shots. They're most effective in narrow spaces where you can't strafe that far, or in larger groups that can fill a space with their projectiles and require more difficult maneuvering. Even in open spaces, they are still somewhat more effective turrets than UWs, but don't expect too much from them.

 

 

 

Miniboss/Boss Monsters:

 

Iron Liches: Their two non-tornado attacks can do a lot of damage, but they are usually very easy to avoid, and this makes the Lich a somewhat problematic enemy to use as a miniboss. However, they have some extremely useful attributes. Because they are so large and slow, they are the most effective player-blocking enemy in the game. Most of the other enemies in Heretic have only slight variants in speed, and they all tend to fall in the middle of the pack if you compare them to Doom enemies -- faster than zombies/Imps/Barons/Mancubi, but slower than Pinkies/Revenants/AVs. This similar speed range makes it very easy to herd mixed groups of enemies into a place where you can beat them with circle-strafing. The Lich (and to some extent the Ophidian, which is the other fairly slow enemy) are a good counterbalance to this. They can also fill an entire doorway or hallway pretty effectively, and even in more open areas their large size can sometimes present an obstacle to movement. Then there's the tornado attack, which doesn't do a lot of damage but does an excellent job of focusing the player's attention -- not only do you have to actively work to avoid them continually, but they make you want to destroy the Lich quickly so that you don't have to keep worrying about them. As a result, you can almost always expect Liches to be one of the player's highest-priority targets, and that gives you a very useful tool for setting up combat and directing the player's movement and focus. All in all, a very good support enemy, though not very useful on its own except in tight spaces.

 

Maulotaurs: Easy to compare to a Cyberdemon, but I find there are some really key differences. A Maulotaur is a significantly lower threat than a Cyberdemon -- most of its attacks do a lot less damage than Cyberdemon rockets, and the one attack that does comparable damage (the trail of fire along the ground) is significantly slower and easier to dodge. The Maulotaur can't be treated as an "oh shit" boss for fast-paced combat, but it is nonetheless a very good focal point for a battle. When there are lots of other monsters around throwing mixed projectiles at you that you have to dodge in different ways, the Maulotaur becomes just one more tricky component to deal with, and because its health is so high, it sticks around providing that background threat for the duration of the battle. Overall a very useful enemy, although in vanilla Heretic, its health is so high that it can be very wearing on the player's patience -- so if you're going to use them, either make sure they're part of a bigger fight (i.e., the player's attention isn't devoted to killing them quickly), or provide plenty of Phoenix Rod ammo, as this is the only weapon that can kill them in a reasonable amount of time.

 

D'Sparil: I've never actually set up a D'Sparil fight myself, but some things are pretty clear. The first form is a cute little miniboss battle, but it's a total pushover, so any D'Sparil battle arena should be designed around the second form, particularly with attention to his teleport locations. As with the Maulotaur, he's pretty weak on his own even in his second form, so it's best to use other monsters to put some pressure on the player. Multiple D'Sparils are also pretty interesting, particularly because the second form's death kills all other monsters on the map, including other D'Sparils -- but if some of them are still in their first form, they will then resurrect into the second form. Because there are so many unique gameplay mechanics involved, there can be a lot of strategy involved in how you set up the fight, so have fun with it!

 

Edited February 3, 2018 by Not Jabba

[Fonze]

Fun thread! I love heretic mapping and this is a good discussion :)

 

First off, I'm stealing this great preface/qualifier because it sums things up nicely:

 

On 2/2/2018 at 7:36 PM, Not Jabba said:

This is just my personal take on how they all fit into Heretic level design, and is partly rooted in my mapping style and the things I like/dislike about working with vanilla Heretic ..., so feel free to take it with a grain of salt.

 

Here are some of my thoughts on the mobs of heretic:

 

Gargoyle: these mobs have already been compared to lost souls and I see them the same way. As with lost souls, anything short of a horde will not be able to control an area by themselves, instead supplement groupings of other monsters with some of these, same as you would do for lost souls. Unlike lost souls, however, gargoyles tend to work really well in groups with one-another, since they don't missile each other like lost souls do and can therefore only scratch one-another, so massive hordes of these guys will not only reach the potential for a high-priority target, but will also not fizzle out quickly like a lost soul mob. Gargoyles are also way more fun to kill than lost souls, so use them often! They like to swarm players and work best when they have the opportunity to get close to the player through distraction or placement. These mobs fit well the harasser niche not jabba mentioned when used in their support role; also, much like a lost soul, players will tend to get rid of these guys whenever convenient to cut down on the more random ticking away at their (the player's) health. Gargoyles are low-to-medium priority, bumped up for their low health. 

 

Fire Gargoyle: the fire gargs are much like the garden variety, except that they tend to sometimes like to stay back and pelt players with and endless barrage of pebbles lit on fire. They take everything the garden gargs do and amplify it, however having an extra thing to do distracts them from rushing the player constantly like their counterparts do, leading to them taking a more distanced role as less swoop in as quickly. Fire gargs make excellent harassers and should be used often to supplement and support other groupings. They also make great hordes, but as with any encounter depth is built through having multiple monster types/roles and positioning them carefully, so back these mobs up with some other supportive monsters. Fire gargs are medium-to-high priority, bumped up for their low health. 

 

Golem: golems are a strange enemy; on one hand they were nice for the iWad, (but for pWads we got sabreclaws that do everything better) and on the other hand their best attributes are subtle at best. Golems can do well against underequipped players, such as in the beginning of a map(set), but I would point out that their use as incidental warriors feeds only tedium. They do make good cannon fodder though and are satisfying to kill, especially with the PR. Honestly I think that's the prefect weapon as a mapper when these guys come to mind, (and maybe the perfect base weapon for all Heretic play?) as it also plays with their ghosted counterparts. All that said however, golems also serve an additional purpose with regard to their nitro counterparts, in that they behave totally differently yet look the same. Golems are great for situational use in this regard, and (sorry not jabba!) I would never encourage forgetting them over nitros 24/7, even if this use is the only one in question. Distraction is a powerful tool at our disposal as mappers, and these guys can still be deadly even just as their slow, melee selves; their unexpectedness can actually allow them to get close enough to hit distracted players. Because of these attributes, golems are best suited to support roles (get ready to see this role a lot). As support, they can make decent area-deniers, cannon fodder, or can establish/break up patterns of nitrogolem use. As with pinkies, hordes of these guys can become a huge problem and maybe even the main threat of an encounter with proper support from other mobs. Golems are as low priority as it is possible to be, even gasbags are a higher threat than these guys. (Except in certain situations!)

 

Golem Ghost: much like the golems, these burly fellows follow the same patterns. Area denial, cannon fodder, distraction, and patterning. The main difference here is their ghosted state, which affects their use with UWs and against certain player-wielded weapons. Ghosts should probably only be used with these in mind, otherwise their use is redundant over a non-ghosted enemy. Personally I am not a fan of using ghosts just so they are harder to see, but to each their own.

 

Note that because of Heretic's ghost system and that most weapons are magic anyway, it would probably be best to balance levels that rely more on ghost use accordingly, arming players primarily with the few physical weapons and featuring the magic ones, and their ammo, less.

 

Nitrogolem: the, yes, revenant of Heretic (sorry again not jabba, heh). There are minor differences of course, but much as revs are glass cannons who can be downed in a couple rockets/ssg blasts, nitros hit hard and die fast, making them very much the glass cannons of Heretic. Their projectiles have a worse turn radius than rev missiles, but they are always homing and really the amount of homing turn radius is not as important as just the fact that it homes to begin with. Nitros are some of the most important enemies in a mapper's arsenal, but should not be relied on too much, just the same as revs shouldn't be spammed. Being glass cannons, nitros are often one of the first, top priority targets that players will actively try to kill, which is both kinda funny with relation to garden golem's status as being lower priority than gasbags, and also is useful as players try to pattern out golem/nitro use. If many golems are used previously, that first nitro will have an extra oomph for an fda'er than if all golems before were nitros, and of course mixing one or two of these guys in with their garden counterparts will make them all look like nitros at first glance.

 

Nitrogolem Ghost: mix the last 2 paragraphs and you got these guys pinned. A group of nitro/golem ghosts works extremely effectively in front of a group of UWs; as the only ghost enemies aside from UWs, golem ghosts can rush the player and claim area while the UWs hurl axes through them and of course nitro ghosts here would create a projectile Hell. Much as with non-ghosted nitros, these guys are top priority for players to kill.

 

Undead Warrior: these tall, budget HKs are your straight-shooting, standard bread 'n butter types. UWs make weredragons basically useless, as they both fill the same basic role, except that the UW appeals to the ghost mechanic. They are the only physcial-based-projectile-firing monster, all other monster projectiles are magic and hit ghosts. They have both a strong and a weak attack, which makes them great standard foot soldiers to face. These mobs are your general purpose, all-around types who do well in any role, provided they are not alone. They also work well in groups and PR use against them is fun for their small horizontal hitbox, allowing them to all get close and maximize that splash damage, but they are also quite tall and can be hindered more easily by low ceilings than other mobs. The shadowsphere is these guy's nemesis and pairing them together is always fun. They are medium priority targets and players will typically ignore them over most other mobs if all things are equal.

 

Undead Warrior Ghost: much like their non-ghosted counterparts, the UWGs are still your basic foot soldier. They only have a strong attack, however, which makes them a bit more niche than their counterparts, but added with the ghost mechanic (and if the mapper keeps it in mind as the main reason to place them over just "more damaging projectiles") they can be devastatingly effective. A giant mass of these guys can fire though each other and present players with a very tough challenge, provided there are also monsters or architecture to break up circlestrafing. If used correctly, these mobs are a higher priority to basic UWs at medium-to-high priority.

 

Weredragon: use the beast if you want to both use a UW and take out ghost mechanics at the same time. Their projectiles are magic-based and hit ghosts. This enemy's primary purpose is to provide extra frames to be HHE'd (dehacked) away to something more useful. Aside from that they are medium priority enemies and are average at all roles. Good for use with a shadowsphere pick up you want players to forget to use on later UWs, and not immediately after pick up, I guess. 

 

Sabreclaw: the golem replacement. These guys do everything better as melee rushers, but have a smaller hitbox and so can't box in the player as well. Truthfully this is the only real area the golem is useful over sabreclaws, as sabreclaws have more health and therefore take more time to clean up. Pressure vs time is the ratio to keep in mind when deciding between these two, similar, area-denial enemies. That said, sabreclaws are exceptional at cornering players and ripping them to shreds, provided they can close the distance, much as with golems, and of course they will control areas well provided they are dense enough. Sabreclaws are usually low-to-medium priority, about on the same level as garden gargs, but situational use can really bring the best out of these guys. 

 

Disciple: the flagship enemy of Heretic, these hooded robes are the cacubus of Heretic, filling a hybrid role between the two Doom enemies they most resemble. They float and they spray horizontally; sounds like a cacubus to me. They also have a deceptively small hitbox and can fit into player-sized gaps, like the gargoyles. Their biggest downfall is that they aren't as fun to fight as either cacodemons or mancubi, with their small hitbox making them floating away more of a hassle and with their attack pattern being far less interesting to dodge than a mancubus. That said though it's what we got so the differences are moot. These guys are very deady in swarms, much more-so than cacos, thus making them great aggressors. They can make good supporters, but their ability to perform that role is hindered by their excellent (flying) mobility, however, this is part of what makes them great aggressors over great grunts. They are medium-to-high priority as they can and will harass players until they are put down, flying over from across levels to do so if possible.

 

Ophidian: the serpent is the arachnotron of Heretic, or at least the closest we got to one. Their "big blast" is a tad overrated, but they still get the job done with bursts of rapid fire. These guys make great turrets and fill support roles well, though of course as with arachs they also can be used to be the main threat of an area. Serpents are medium-to-high priority.

 

Iron Lich: the other flagship enemy of Heretic, these seemingly-floating skulls actually have tiny feet we can't see because the pixels are too large. With 3 different attacks, these skulls can be a devastating force; no wonder they are the miniboss of Heretic! As not jabba said, they are one of the few enemies which is highly specialized in terms of its attributes: being big, slow, and beefy, and as such they function great in both support and main-threat roles. They are high priority enemies which will almost always be targeted by players first. 

 

Maulotaur: the cybie of Heretic fills many similar roles, except that this hunk is not meant to be turreted far away and similar uses can be tough for him to fill. He really works best when he can use all 3 of his attacks to equal success and should typically be used either in close quarters with the player or on the same plane. The maulotaur can be supportive of other mobs if placed in a turreted position, but is most likely to take the attention away from them and sink rise back into his main role of being the boss. Maulotaurs are very high priority enemies as their boss status would suggest.

 

D'Sparil: the PE of Heretic ;D I always knew PEs should've had boss status, who knew they just needed a cool ride? D'Sparil is a tough monster to use because he requires the map or at least his area to be suited to his favor, in addition for teleport spots to be planned and placed. He also heralds the end of the map he's placed in so his use is further obfuscated and restricted by that. That said, due to his nature he will always be the top priority of any monster placed in a level, however he can still be used as support etc. if placed in locations which favor him and if used with other mobs who are easier to clear and that present a more pressing threat. Still, D'Sparil is a boss and the final one at that, so his use should always be carefully planned out.

 

Monster use in general: Heretic mobs suffer from an overuse of projectiles (and mostly straight-shooting ones at that!) as well as a lack of differentiation from one-another. Many also have too much health for the pressure they can elicit on their own, even if in groups, thus making Heretic much more difficult to balance the pressure vs time = fun ratio than Doom. To this degree, my opinion is that mappers should use items more freely, as well as larger groupings of mobs or just more dense monster placement. Being projectile-based, Heretic's gameplay should likely be approached as a projectile Hell scenario with many mobs scattered about providing pressure from as many angles and heights as possible, while being somewhat choreographed to make encounters more dynamic, developing as they unfold. To this end though players need to be well-equipped so enemies don't each take 5 seconds to kill, as that would make clean up far worse for a horde than for a couple enemies. By overpowering players, encounters can be cleaned up quickly regardless of monster count, so go big. 

 

I also push BPPT as the intended experience, as it gives mobs the extra speed they need to be balanced health-wise with their pressuring abilities and also the extra ammo means I can use more power weapons and make things even faster. However, item management and usage is tougher on BPPT so it's a trade-off on that front.

 

I always thought that monster widths were smaller than Doom to account for more maneuverability for both players and monsters wrt flying, allowing more dense monster placement, perfect for pressuring players from multiple heights.

 

Loving this discussion on Heretic mobs :) Lot more to talk about as well from a mapping perspective, and it's a discussion I'd love to see more of and take part in, but I'll end my tirade here for now. <3 Heretic

Edited February 17, 2018 by Fonze

[Lore]

Great and useful thread. Also: Iron Liches tornados won't follow you if you use Shadowsphere ( something I didn't know before someone else said in the forums some time ago).