New details on the Duke Nukem Forever 2001 build

[JackSpurtsOnSundays]

Quite a lot of media leaked in the last couple of months that can be seen here:

https://twitter.com/juanlurve/status/1210344901554012160

https://twitter.com/juanlurve/status/1210448025824313345

 

Bad news is Randy has changed his tone and now says that they have no plans to release anything comparing a release of a build to going through a dead persons belongings, Randy says "maybe when everyone is dead and no one cares" someone else will release something.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ue5MLsD0Rto&t=45m43s

 

So there you have it. Nothing will ever be released as far as Randy Pitchford is concerned.

[Lila Feuer]

He is a worthless human being.

[CARRiON]

So his reasoning is 2K still owns the pre-Gearbox build, and it would generally be a legal minefield? He mentioned that 2K has been open to the idea, so what's the hold up? Is it because he wants to try and sell it?

 

His last reason is stupid to me, the people that made those assets and things did so with the intention of one day releasing it to the world. Would any of these people actually care? I also think most people at this point are well aware there isn't a "whole game" here. 

[JackSpurtsOnSundays]

7 minutes ago, CARRiON said:

So his reasoning is 2K still owns the pre-Gearbox build, and it would generally be a legal minefield? He mentioned that 2K has been open to the idea, so what's the hold up? Is it because he wants to try and sell it?

 

His last reason is stupid to me, the people that made those assets and things did so with the intention of one day releasing it to the world. Would any of these people actually care? I also think most people at this point are well aware there isn't a "whole game" here. 

Randy confirmed a few months ago they had secured a license from 2K that enables them to release Duke Nukem Forever and related materials themselves as part of a collection. They have the rights to do that. Randy has simply shifted tone from "we are working on it and it will be released", which he promised to do several times, to "it seems disrespectful and like going through a dead persons stuff. I will never release anything but maybe when everyone involved is dead and someone else cares they will".

Edited February 11, 2020 by JackSpurtsOnSundays

[seed]

And of course, it's bullshit, just like everything Randy says nowadays. 3DR wanted to release the build before they lost the rights and could do it effortlessly, then Randy stepped in and came with all sorts of excuses and reasons not to. There's little room for doubt here that unless he finds a way to gain something from such a release he's never going to give it to the community. He's not going to do it out of heart's kindness.

 

Shame, but unsurprising. Under GBX Duke has no future (or even past in this case).

[JackSpurtsOnSundays]

Of course it is. While I'm not expecting a mostly finished game even developers who worked on it said by the end of 2002 everything was represented in one way or another with large playable chunks.

 

Fans want this, people in general seem to want this. Randy just doesn't care. Recently the Ion Fury developers wanted to do an example where you played as Duke in the Ion Fury universe and were turned down. Similarly Slipgate Studios (Rad Rodgers) wanted to remaster the old console games and were turned down. I think Gearbox and Randy have no interest in doing anything with the franchise.

 

On a side note Gearbox have a contact form: https://www.gearboxsoftware.com/contact/

 

This whole thing started because people were being vocal about it. If they see there's still interest potentially their publishing branch managed by Steve Gibson may push for it to be released in some form. They already have the rights required it's just a matter of doing it.

[Redneckerz]

A user at the ZDoom forums wants to draw attention at the negoiation table with GBX.

 

Since GBX has Randy Pitchford, i consider every attempt at that futile.

 

GBX will only ever do something with this if Pitchford leaves.

Edited February 11, 2020 by Redneckerz

[Gez]

9 hours ago, JackSpurtsOnSundays said:

Randy has simply shifted tone from "we are working on it and it will be released", which he promised to do several times, to "it seems disrespectful and like going through a dead persons stuff. I will never release anything but maybe when everyone involved is dead and someone else cares they will". 

Is he daring Duke fans to hire a hitman against him? Is it suicide by fandom?

[seed]

8 hours ago, JackSpurtsOnSundays said:

Of course it is. While I'm not expecting a mostly finished game even developers who worked on it said by the end of 2002 everything was represented in one way or another with large playable chunks.

 

Fans want this, people in general seem to want this. Randy just doesn't care. Recently the Ion Fury developers wanted to do an example where you played as Duke in the Ion Fury universe and were turned down. Similarly Slipgate Studios (Rad Rodgers) wanted to remaster the old console games and were turned down. I think Gearbox and Randy have no interest in doing anything with the franchise.

 

On a side note Gearbox have a contact form: https://www.gearboxsoftware.com/contact/

 

This whole thing started because people were being vocal about it. If they see there's still interest potentially their publishing branch managed by Steve Gibson may push for it to be released in some form. They already have the rights required it's just a matter of doing it.

 

Never, ever going to happen. Like Red said above, another user on the ZDoom Forums wanted to draw attention over WT and its lack of open source code. There have been many attempts in the past to do this, there's been attempts at releasing the DNF2001 builds, there's been attempts at making a new Duke game, and the list can really go on.

 

Under Randy, Duke has no future. Duke is essentially in a worse situation than Blood was - at least Atari tried, even if they failed, to make a good remaster of the game. Randy wants to see no Duke, hear no Duke, do no Duke, and no pressure is high enough to change that.

 

As long as GBX has the rights to the IP, Duke is as good as dead. Nothing's happening with the IP under them. Ever.

Edited February 11, 2020 by seed

[Dexiaz]

Since we can't get that build, let's build it together by ourselves! On Build engine! Oh wait...

 

Getting serious: God damn you, Randy. This is not funny at all.

 

I do believe that in future we will get this build anyway. Why? Do you remember Resident Evil 1.5 and Resident Evil 1 for GBA? All RE fans thought it's impossible to get those builds (especially 1.5). But several years have passed since people got and even modified (to make it stable and playable without bugs) those builds.

 

So it's just matter of time. Maybe it's too optimistic, but I do remember that everyone said 15 years ago "Huh, Resident Evil 1.5 would be released in public domain? Only when Hell freezes over". And now...

[seed]

10 minutes ago, Deⓧiaz said:

Since we can't get that build, let's build it together by ourselves! On Build engine! Oh wait...

 

Not going to work.

 

There was a pretty ambitious project back in the late 2000s using UE3 that aimed to recreate the original game with entirely new assets and so on. But since it competed directly with DNF2011 at the time, GBX felt threatened (read: affect its sales) and sent the project a C&D.

[Dexiaz]

26 minutes ago, seed said:

Not going to work.

 

 

It was the reference to DNF 2013 on Build Engine

 

No problems at all to do a mod for an old game.

[Lila Feuer]

8 hours ago, seed said:

at least Atari tried, even if they failed, to make a good remaster of the game.

Atari did jackshit, it was Nightdive who tried, Atari just agreed to make bank off of an IP its sitting on. If anything Atari interfered with FS's development and that's why it turned out half-baked. They pretty much won't let Nightdive do anything with it now either so now it's just another stain on Blood's already scuffed up legacy.

And yeah, unless Randy gets his way and gets to re-release Duke for the fiftieth time as the BADASS Throwback Pack or whatever we aren't going to live long enough to get to play the old DNF builds in this lifetime.

Edited February 11, 2020 by Lila Feuer

[seed]

34 minutes ago, Lila Feuer said:

Atari did jackshit, it was Nightdive who tried, Atari just agreed to make bank off of an IP its sitting on. If anything Atari interfered with FS's development and that's why it turned out half-baked. They pretty much won't let Nightdive do anything with it now either so now it's just another stain on Blood's already scuffed up legacy.

 

Yes, you're quite right, that's what I meant when I said "tried" - at the very least they allowed NDS to do something, but then completely screwed up when they forced them to release it in a clearly unfinished state on top of pulling the rug way too soon afterwards. As a result, major issues still remain in FS to this day, likely never to be addressed.

 

GBX will do nothing with Duke. No more releases, no more ports, no more source codes, no more updates, no more content, no more beta builds, no more side-scrollers, no more expansions, no more anything. They're perfectly fine sitting on it, and doing nothing with it. Forget about a new game too.

Edited February 11, 2020 by seed

[JackSpurtsOnSundays]

38 minutes ago, seed said:

GBX will do nothing with Duke. No more releases, no more ports, no more source codes, no more updates, no more content, no more beta builds, no more side-scrollers, no more expansions, no more anything. They're perfectly fine sitting on it, and doing nothing with it. Forget about a new game too.

 

Duke Nukem 3D is coming to Switch soon. It was rated by the ESRB. Similarly World Tour on Steam has had a private depot receiving regular updates over the last few months. Duke will continue to survive in the form of low quality cameos in other games and yet another release of Duke Nukem 3D.

[seed]

Huh, at least the Switch version might be more playable then, because Wt on PC is virtually unplayable for me.

[JackSpurtsOnSundays]

 

The PC version is unplayable. I finished the new episode once when it released and haven't been able to play it again. The funny thing is it seems Gearbox contracted a new port that is practically a clone of EDuke32 and their Polymer renderer to avoid paying them royalties....even the new maps were made in Mapster32 and mappers say they use the same light tags as Polymer. Shows what kind of a company they are practically recreating a fan source port to avoid paying them...reminds me that in the Google Call from 2017 Randy says he made World Tour "for the fans" and they shit on him for it...then the guys in the call start talking about what people didn't like and Randy's reasoning for everything is "it would have cost money".

 

Seriously. I'm not kidding.

 

There's several points in the call that he uses the claim of 'money' for.

 

- "Jon St. John gives a poor voice performance, why is that?" "We didn't direct his voice sessions and we did it all in one. Direction costs money."

 

- "The art looks like amateur level sprite edits, why is that?" "Artists cost money and have deadlines"

 

- "What about releasing the Duke Forever mod tools or Duke3D alphas?" "We'd have to pay QA to test that stuff"

 

 

[JackSpurtsOnSundays]

Two more screenshots have appeared online: https://twitter.com/juanlurve/status/1227366352962277377

[markanini]

A lot of what Randy is saying tells very blatantly of concerns of Gearbox breaking even. If you keep reading between the lines Gearbox is facing not being the powerhouse of a game company they wished to be and, are in risk aversion mode. The owners don't have the vision to turn things around. This could mean one of two things, either the company continues to stagnate until eventually getting absorbed by a larger player like Ubisoft or EA. Or someone with the right clout convinces them that putting out the unreleased content will be profitable. Either way the tiny window of opportunity for DNF2001 to see the light of day is closing.

Edited February 12, 2020 by markanini
typo

[Redneckerz]

11 hours ago, JackSpurtsOnSundays said:

 

Duke Nukem 3D is coming to Switch soon. It was rated by the ESRB. Similarly World Tour on Steam has had a private depot receiving regular updates over the last few months. Duke will continue to survive in the form of low quality cameos in other games and yet another release of Duke Nukem 3D.

That rating was reported 4 months ago. Perhaps it will get announced in a Direct, but since both Saints Row 4 and Metro Redux were rumored and announced with release date.

 

Also, the poster below is the guy who was looking into a legal discussion with GBA for the Deus Ex Duke version from 2001.

 

7 hours ago, markanini said:

A lot of what Randy is saying tells very blatantly of concerns of Gearbox breaking even. If you keep reading between the lines Gearbox is facing not being the powerhouse of a game company they wished to be and, are in risk aversion mode. The owners don't have the vision to turn things around. This could mean one of two things, either the company continues to stagnate until eventually getting absorbed by a larger player like Ubisoft or EA.

 

Likely this, but since Borderlands 3 is a success, likely not. They can ride that Claptrap wave till people think the shtick goes stale. Given the fact people waited 6-7 years for this, i'd say they can sustain themselves for a little while.

 

7 hours ago, markanini said:

Or someone with the right clout convinces them that putting out the unreleased content will be profitable.

As said on the ZDoom forums - The only reason GBX wants to put this out is under some form of collection - which likely won't happen. Pitchford originally cited QA issues when referring to the unreleased stuff - Since when do unfinished beta's and alphas need quality assurance? They are called unfinished beta's and alphas for a reason!

 

That reason alone is a dead giveaway Pitchford wants nothing to do with releasing the unfinished stuff.

 

The actual truthful reason is that Pitchford does not want a product, even in its unfinished form, be put out to the public that tops the DNF as it was released. Since that isn't a huge hill to climb over, Pitchford simply does not want the original (and by all impressions of it, superior) product to outclass his work, which is DNF 2011.

 

Can you tell the irony of this? Randy Pitchford is geniunely concerned that an unfinished beta version of DNF 2001 (Or ''Deus Ex Duke'') will be better than DNF 2011 in its released form.

[seed]

This is a common misconception though - DNF2011 isn't really a GBX product. By the time GDX stepped in the game was already looking the way it does, they've only helped with polish and I think some funds if I'm not mistaken. And of course actually releasing the product. But in the game's overall design there was little they did I think, and couldn't do much either since time was short and DNF was such a mishmash of different eras and ideas of the game mixed together that in order to make it actually better they would have had to go back to the drawing board. GBX had the potential of making a better game though, as seen with the Doctor Who Cloned Me DLC, which is better than the entire base game, not to mention much more focused and polished. I wonder how DNF2011 would have looked like if it was entirely a GBX product.

 

But anyway, the point is that GBX IS selling the game, so naturally they want people investing the money in their title and not spend their time playing an unfinished, free build. And of course, since they want to make a profit off of the 2001 build, a version that was likely superior to the final product in most ways, but currently don't know how to do that, we're not going to see it anytime soon.

Edited February 12, 2020 by seed

[markanini]

Randy doesn't come off as the maverick businessman. If he was he would be willing to take more risks rather than talk about playing it safe to a damming extent. Interestingly he seems equally scared of his shareholders as the community when he makes his promises that he doesn't follow up on all the time.

Edited February 12, 2020 by markanini

[seed]

That's what happens when you're not a private company I guess.

[markanini]

It's because of his background in tech and entertainment. That makes him dependent on advisers he surrounds himself with. They're the ones running the show, he's trying to keep up. That's why I don't buy the idea that he's some evil cartoon character. He could only dream of that level of autonomy.

[Redneckerz]

2 hours ago, markanini said:

It's because of his background in tech and entertainment. That makes him dependent on advisers he surrounds himself with. They're the ones running the show, he's trying to keep up. That's why I don't buy the idea that he's some evil cartoon character.

I would not be so sure about that.

 

 

2 hours ago, markanini said:

He could only dream of that level of autonomy.

Gee, maybe you should try convincing him to release those unfinished works after all! ;)

[Doomkid]

Holy shit. I almost never say this, but that was pure cringe. God damn.

[Lila Feuer]

DNF '11 is like 9 years old now who tf cares. Apparently Randy, even though he had nothing to do with DNF despite helping get it out the door, and the DLC after the fact. Mondo weenie.

[mrthejoshmon]

Every time something about DNF 2001 is brought up and then Randy gets involved I feel nothing but a pit in my stomach as I know it ain't good.

 

Why'd the thumb drive this goon loose have to be incriminating secrets and porn, why not this :(

[CyberDreams]

Eh. I gave up hope a long time ago. I mean, 3DR are the ones who initially fucked up anyways. They couldn't even make a competent sequel to Duke 3D. They had to keep changing the gameplay/engine to "keep up with the times". So i blame them, mainly George Broussard. The 2001 version should of been the game that was released but since it wasn't it is what it is i guess.

[Doom_Dude]

On 2/12/2020 at 5:37 PM, Doomkid said:

Holy shit. I almost never say this, but that was pure cringe. God damn.

 

Oh why did I have to click on that.

 

As for Duke Nukem Forever, maybe it should be buried in the desert like they did with the olde E.T. cartridges for the Atari 2600. hah!