ZDaemon 1.10 Released

[Memfis]

This closed source discussion is very old, like over 10 years old. Everyone already has stated their opinion countless times, and nobody intends to change their views. You know that very well so why are you talking about this? Go make salad or something instead. Please let us have a civilized ZDaemon thread on Doomworld for once.

[AF-Domains.net]

There are two decent launchers that can be used to connect to a server and (hopefully) enjoy a game.

 

Source access is not a requirement for playing the game.

 

If we want to provide the ability for other launchers to query the master we will, but we don't. If you're looking for a reason, don't bother, it is our prerogative in the end.

 

If one or both of those are your requirement for using ZDaemon, then this isn't the port for you.

 

In the end that will likely not go down well, but there we are. In the end, you can't please everyone.

 

Given your last suggestion, this discussision doesn't serve any further purpose if that's the only "alternative" that comes to mind.

 

Bowing out of this thread. For those that were looking forward to 1.10 final, we hope you enjoy it.

[Edward850]

My favorite part was how you failed to answer my question.

 

Also:
 

11 minutes ago, AF-Domains.net said:

In the end that will likely not go down well, but there we are. In the end, you can't please everyone.

But you actually physically could. By releasing the source code you please everyone asking for it, and disappoint no-one who doesn't. By allowing 3rd party launchers you please everyone asking for it, and disappoint no-one who doesn't.

Edited March 7, 2018 by Edward850

[Moustachio]

Being completely shut off from changing viewpoints or a change of opinion is very close-minded. Especially in a community that thrives on a codebase that is open source. And forums are meant for discussion, so there's no real reason to stop having this discussion if it's something that people feel strongly about even after 10 years.

[Evolution]

And here I thought we'd all be sharing pot and singing Kum ba yah together.

 

On open sourcing: the Odamex team have been advertising the need for developers for quite some time now, and with bare changelog. It's licensed under GNU/GPLv2. Looking at the progress there -not at all an intended bash to the solid old schooling platform - I'm not seeing much reason for ZDaemon to do the same.

 

Glaice: Note I linked the changelog after mentioning some stock nice-sounding stuff, you will probably like the listed fixes and additions in there more. Regarding the point in double jump, New School themed tournaments will make use of it.

 

Decay also; while this is mostly a looong recap, there's quite a few great fixes and additions since beta 08 that came about recently.

 

AF: tutti frutti aw rooty - it's the funky effect those textures that are a certain size under 128px cause. There's a thread at the top of our pending feature requests subforum.

 

[Moustachio]

On a positive note, I've been a fan of ZDaemon for as long as I've been a fan of Doom, and these updates are mighty exciting for someone like me who plays on it more than Zandronum or Odamex.

[Decay]

23 minutes ago, Evolution said:

On open sourcing: the Odamex team have been advertising the need for developers for quite some time now, and with bare changelog. It's licensed under GNU/GPLv2. Looking at the progress there -not at all an intended bash to the solid old schooling platform - I'm not seeing much reason for ZDaemon to do the same.

 

Decay also; while this is mostly a looong recap, there's quite a few great fixes and additions since beta 08 that came about recently.

Normally I wouldn't hop on the anti-closed source bandwagon stuff but that's probably the stupidest argument you could muster, almost as good as the "hur no hacks being made for it" argument.

 

"Great fixes and additions" lol well if you say so

[riderr3]

1 hour ago, AF-Domains.net said:

"I can't believe this ancient tutti-frutti bug is still in this version"

 

What are you referring to specifically?

 

Textures shorter than 128 can cause this

[Rosh Fragger]

2 hours ago, Glaice said:

Chocolate Doom and prBoom+ would like to have a word with you.

No amount of chocolate will make me change my opinion!

[Edward850]

2 minutes ago, Rosh Fragger said:

No amount of chocolate will make me change my opinion!

You can't really respond to facts with opinions.

[Rosh Fragger]

1 minute ago, Edward850 said:

You can't really respond to facts with opinions.

ZDaemon is the best multiplayer source port that keeps the old vibe of these games intact. Now isn't that a fact?

[LexiMax]

8 hours ago, Evolution said:

• WAD downloads directly from the server

 

Directly from the server?  Couldn't that potentially interfere with servicing player connections?

[snapshot]

ZDaemon is my first go-to Multiplayer port and it's good to see it still receiving updates, I Rarely use Zandronum nowadays, probably because the survival mode sucks there, doesn't allow you to join in-progress games, and most of the time it's just complex doom, Thanks for the update.

[Edward850]

44 minutes ago, Rosh Fragger said:

ZDaemon is the best multiplayer source port that keeps the old vibe of these games intact. Now isn't that a fact?

No, because Odamex actually is, which doesn't so much "have" an old vibe as it is the old vibe. It is vanilla demo compatible. Fact. Zdaemon does not have vanilla demo compatibility.

Edited March 8, 2018 by Edward850

[Evolution]

43 minutes ago, AlexMax said:

 

Directly from the server?  Couldn't that potentially interfere with servicing player connections?

 

There's a definable limit of concurrent downloads and transfer speed. If the former has been reached then other requests get ignored and getwad might spring into action, not sure though. It's existed on the TNS server for a while and seems not to have an impact.

[fraggle]

4 hours ago, Edward850 said:

Is the fact that Doomseeker is open source is why you have a problem with it? Perhaps you don't want people to know something about your Master Server protocol.

 

Is that the reason? I can understand a "misguided but vaguely coherent" argument for trying to keep the server protocol a secret but keeping the master server protocol a secret is bizarre.

[Edward850]

1 hour ago, fraggle said:

Is that the reason? I can understand a "misguided but vaguely coherent" argument for trying to keep the server protocol a secret but keeping the master server protocol a secret is bizarre.

I'm at a complete loss for any reason to be frank, and I do mean that with sincerity. Even commercial games on PC were for the longest time using publicly available master server specifications, which only really stopped because they stopped using master server lists (matchmaking) or were tied to specific account systems like Steam, which I might add still has a public protocol for dedicated servers anyway.

 

If commercial closed source software didn't have a problem with it, it begs the question as to why the Zdaemon developers think their protocol is so special. It's not a security problem because you don't actually need security for master server listings, they are a public access system by concept (unless they changed their protocol to require logins and are actually passing around passwords in plain text instead of using any sort of tokens, and one would certainly hope not). History has taught us thus far that every other closed source port and protocol has had something to hide. Skulltag and csDoom had their infamous back doors of course. So while that may very well not be true with Zdaemon, you can't accuse without proof after all, it certainly does seem curious as to obfuscating even their master server protocol.

 

There's no advantage in brick walling it as it just reduces exposure, it can't offer effective control over bans or anything over the sort unless there's some undocumented telemetry going on. They haven't mentioned they record telemetry to identify users, after all. However since that wouldn't be something you'd want to be found out doing and would be legendarily silly, I'd highly doubt that to be the case either.

Edited March 8, 2018 by Edward850

[Doomkid]

Just piping up to say "neat"! Long time ZD user, will have the Doomshack cluster updated shortly. Glad to see active development!

[Lila Feuer]

Thought ZDaemon was a meme or something.

[Doomkid]

10 hours ago, Glaice said:

>16:9 support
A lot of ports supported this a long time ago. Why is it suddenly supported now?

[...]

Chocolate Doom and prBoom+ would like to have a word with you.

ZDaemon has had widescreen for at least 5 years far as I can tell.

 

Sadly since Odamex has so few players and isn't being developed, ZDaemon really is your best bet at finding normal Doom deathmatches without a gazillion mods. Choco and PrBoom are fantastic ports but multiplayer in them honestly is unplayable if it's not LAN, plus the c/s doom-based ports all allow for a much higher player count.

[Alteus]

Wow, congrats on new release. Demos!

[Flambeau]

On 7-3-2018 at 10:49 PM, Evolution said:

And here I thought we'd all be sharing pot and singing Kum ba yah together.

 

Kumbayah on 1.10!!

"Congratulations"

[Evolution]

ZDaemon 1.10.01 has been released! (and will automatically be installed for you by the ZLauncher).

This is a server-only update. What's new?:

Significant improvements to unlagged; hitting in online mode should now be exactly the same as in SP mode even in very high ping situations; furthermore, there should be far fewer "dropped shots".

[Doom64hunter]

On 8.3.2018 at 4:16 AM, Edward850 said:

It's not a security problem because you don't actually need security for master server listings, they are a public access system by concept (unless they changed their protocol to require logins and are actually passing around passwords in plain text instead of using any sort of tokens, and one would certainly hope not).

ZDaemon has, as far back as 2005 at least, always required a login to play on games listed on the master server.

So if there are any reasons for the master server protocol to be closed source, this is it.

[UberGewei]

On ‎8‎-‎3‎-‎2018 at 12:04 AM, riderr3 said:

Textures shorter than 128 can cause this

 

We recently spoke about this over at ZDaemon as we were sorting out all the bug reports.
And this is NOT a ZDaemon bug, this goes back to the original .exe. Thus it has been classified as a feature request.

See HERE.

[Medis]

1.10.2 was released! Like 3 hours back.

 

@Edward850 it maybie closed source, but its otherwise great port with great community.

They way you are taking it you are somewhat closing yourself doors i guess.

But hey, if you really like'd to help I know exactly where we can compile something >)

 

It may have flaws here and there but its doom, it looks like doom and thats what matters for me.

With some knownledge you can get around many things.

 

Either way take a quick look on how fancy maps you can make <:

 

 

[Decay]

3 hours ago, Medis said:

Either way take a quick look on how fancy maps you can make <:

lmao

[Doomkid]

I like that waterfall effect, if the fall was sloped a bit at the top it would look really convincing

[Memfis]

Wow, these sharks are scary. :) I hope there is a part where you're being chased by them.

[Ru5tK1ng]

On 4/7/2018 at 8:06 PM, Medis said:

Either way take a quick look on how fancy maps you can make <:

You've been able to do things like that for nearly a decade with other ports.

 

On 3/7/2018 at 5:28 PM, Rosh Fragger said:

ZDaemon is the best multiplayer source port that keeps the old vibe of these games intact. Now isn't that a fact?

If you said, 'keeps the old ZDOOM vibe intact', then it would be a fact.