BFG Lamers

And I just want to say that I very much enjoy playing him and is not one of those who uses one weapon and one weapon only.
Take back that false accusation.

Regarding this BFG-thingy.. I nevermind getting a green lightningbolt up my arse, actually I really enjoy at at certain points. BUT, to prove real skill a player has to cycle the weapons otherwise the dmgame tends to get a bit boring.. Not only if you're winning, but more so if you are losing :)

Listen to my wisdom and play

no one has the right to 'ban' a weapon from doom but john romero. those weenies want to ban the bfg, then will desire to ban plasma as well, then the rocket launcher, etc. and find more and more excuses for getting fragged.

Okay, calm down everyone, WaveLength's here. Now:
Everybody knows that every weapon in Doom/2 is equally effective in the hands of both newbies and veterans. Everybody picks up what is useful in the situation, whether it be the Shotgun or the BFG.
Except the Chaingun, you should start out with <i>that.</i> End of story.

Wow, it's funny, I have been playing, what, 3 years, and already I know more than you ever will. No, I mean <u>everybody.</u>

If the BFG is in the wad it's valid to use, if the creator took the time to add this weapon it's just damn impolite not to use it :)
What's that saying? "all's fair in love and war"

The real problem with the BFG is trying to "cone" people...gets really tough when their movement is skippy and so is yours. The sgg I have no problem with, just guess where they will be .5 seconds afterwards and you'll atleast put a scratch on them. Rockets are very good against other high ping users...just hold the fire button and they'll have lots of trouble dodging those.

Thanks for the tip about being behind where you seem to be ;-) didn't know that before...

man!! those guys are so full of shit! i guess they're not really doomers, are they? if u r out in the open shooting your bfg, u r taking a fair risk there. i mean, one well-placed rocket can take u out from 100% health, right? and it's way faster... so bfg would only be "lame" bcause it's so f***ing hard to use - which is just fine considering the amount of raw damage it causes... :)
this is what i say after playing my fair bit of split screen dm in dlegacy. if anybody gets to xplain me the basics on internet play i would appreciate it greatly...

The BFG and plasma weapons and their use or non-use is entirely a map design issue. There are maps that have the plasma weapons but make taking them fraught with danger or too time-consuming for multiplayer. There are also maps from which the weapons are absent altogether. My suggestion to the people who don't like the weapons is to find (or start) a server with one of those maps.
Jumps and mouselook seem to be ticking off mostly old-school people who are not used to them and are not willing to unlearn their skills or change their setups to accommodate the new features. In my opinion, mouselook and jumps both make the game richer by offering new possibilities. But they can be turned off on the server level in csDoom. What I am saying is, everyone can find or create a place to play with their favorite options and/or weapons. It is all about the freedom of choice. Don't try to force your personal preferences on other players in the game.

However, if you make a "perfect" server, with no plasma weapons on it and with mouselook and jumps turned off, and no one ever joins to play there... maybe it is time to learn the new things and join the masters.

Xenos, a.k.a. Doom (Would you like some cheese with that?)

Agreed.

Jumping is an extremely good skill to learn.

However, mlook as it is implemented into csdoom is extremely poor, IMO. (I like mlook in GLLegacy, however ...)

First, it's skewed, meaning when you aim up or down you're not going to hit where you think you will hit (i.e. center of screen). And the warping and view angle modification just is too uneven. mlook in legacy is more acceptable.

Second, in most doom maps you gain NOTHING by having mlook on. With autoaim on as a default feature, you can normally hit anything in a vertical line. All it does is make you waste ammo, since the view angle movement is too uneven, jerky, and way too sensitive.

Third, it can't be turned off at the client side and still retain the original configured feel. If you turn off mlook on a server with mlook defaulted on, the mouse will move the client instead of only turning the client left/right. This I feel is unacceptable.

My three cents.

i use the bfg when i feel like it,the only weapons i have with ammo or to get out of trouble. i would all the time also when there like 4 or more people playing. they can't not ban the bfg cause they have no right. if some say their going to leave, i'll tell them bye loser.

Actually Spinal is way more oldschool than I am. I got a laugh out of this page and don't mind being on it, even though the namecalling is a bit silly. Kind of an honor, in a way. I'll be the first person to agree i'm an unapologitic BFG FREAK :).

The guy who wrote this page is in an unfortunate position tho. He is basically a new player, and in a different environment with fewer of his fellow players being strangers, he wouldn't proceed like this. Many newbies start out not particularly liking the BFG and then as their skill grows, they learn to use it better, and they they are happy with it.

The environment CSdoom creates doesen't encourage the learning of the BFG as strongly as our older, local BBS's did, partly because the accountability isnt there. On BBS's, if you cuss out 50% of the players on the board, you just don't get games and you get embarrassed in the teleconference when the whole place starts calling you names back. With CSdoom, these kids can complain and whine as much as they please in game because it is not a local crowd, and there's no consequences.

And lastly, here's a quote from the Facility rewrite I'm about to release:

The behavior of the BFG makes it intimidating to people who dont understand it. Initially, some Doom2 playing groups went as far as to outlaw its use, but these groups became fewer and fewer since there has been education on how this devestating weapon works. Then, with the recent advent of internet-playable Doom2 ports, a new crop of newbies came into the game who once again do not understand the weapon and attempt to insist to others not to use it in game. Once again, education will be the key to these people being able to use the BFG as well as become hard to hit with it.

Someone just told me that it was written as a joke, which if it's so, that's cool. No offense intended in my last post toward the author if that's the case. That page does seem to describe to a T the attitude and position some of the new Anti-BFG CSDoom whiners have.

You can hit anything in a vertical line, but what if you want autoaim off, pull out a rocketlauncher or BFG and start shooting at the floor in some open area to do splash damages, like in Quake/Quake II? Without look up/down you can't do that, right? There isn't many open areas in original DooM/Doom II, but there are some. In tight areas, you could attain the same effect by shooting at walls, but not in the open areas. So mouselook is a gain, I think.

csdoom does not allow you to aim the BFG up/down anyway. Another minus. Pity.

mlook in csdoom is pointless.

Let me start off by saying I have nothing against those who use the BFG. To me, its just another weapon. It's my least favorite weapon (excluding the pistol which doesn't count :P). It's just that if I don't kill someone directly with the big green ball I feel as if I didn't earn the kill. It's like being detached from the event. Hit the wall and someone 10-15 degrees off to the side dies. I only use it when it's my only weapon, or when others are using it(when in Rome). I'm much better with it now than I used to be, but I still don't like it. I just don't find it as much fun as taking someone out with a nice rocket shot, a cool twitch of the ssg, or even chewing someone to pieces from a distance with the chain gun.

If players would be able to shoot the BFG to the floor exactly before themselves, it would kill the gameplay because the traces would come out immediately, so the BFG could be used as a super strong ssg. You just fire the weapon to the floor, and after the explosion you aim your target quickly, so it gets the traces. Good, that it isn't possible to do.

ive played as BFG llama on occasions...

about jumping and shit: we can say that old-school players dont wanna use jumping and freelook cause theyre used to playing without them... i dont know. and we can also say that these features can enrich the game, but this is like saying that football (soccer) can be enriched by allowing the players to use their hands freely to hit the ball... fine, but football is football, and that modification would have to be called something else. also, jumping usually ruins good maps not made for it (nearly all the maps being run on csdoom servers are made for the orginal exe). personally im not interested in cultivating jumping skills in doom (and i even play with forward/backward mouse movement like the original exe plays... it took me some time to adjust after being used to the more stable movement that you get when using mouselook or ports that allow you to negate that f/b movement), nor do i think these features add to the games aesthetics.

sometimes i even play a bit in servers with jumping, but not long i guess... i havent seen any classic-style ult doom servers yet :(

but my point here is that if and when you treat doom as a competition sport in which you test your skills, you must do it within a given set of rules, and must set acknowledge variations as different from each other, with good maps made specifically for the rules used

actually, whether or not items respawn changes the gameplay even more than jumping, often

BFG is awesome Zokum is awesome Toke is a bad gay fagot!!!!!1!!!1111!

CsDoom has a limited mouselook implementation, making the BFG always shoot in a straight line, simply because the developer couldn't do it right. He is aware of the issue however. The Legacy version of mouselook allows the BFG to be shot at the floor and sweep everything ahead with the cone which is still pointed horizontally. That is not the intended behavior, since it takes a crucial skill element (that of timing your shots differently depending on the distance to walls) out of using the weapon and denies the defending player a chance to dodge. A correct mouselook implementation would have the cone of damage always point in the direction of the flight of the ball. So that if you shot the floor with the BFG, the cone of damage would also hit the floor. That would restore the weapon balance that has been skewed in Legacy.

BTW, [AriocH], FYI: My vertical mouse sensitivity is as high as horizontal. I move with my keys, but I can move forward and back using the mouse alone. Vertical sensitivity is important to have on. It makes your turns on a dime more difficult, but affords you a slight speed boost if you drag your mouse in the direction of the run while straferunning. The speed in Doom is a sum of individual speeds. The mouserunning is similar to straferun in that respect, except that it is a little faster still.

Dunno what to say here except if this isn't a joke well that's just very sad altogether

Hmm, is that the Xenos who made Xenosx9 DM wad?

Yes, I made Xenosx9.wad.

Say, I really enjoyed those set of levels. Have you made anything since? I haven't been able to track down anything else by you. A webpage perhaps?

Anthony

Thanks, you are too kind.
I was away from Doom for over 3 years. I have some work in progress, but no finished new maps. I have made around 20 finished levels total before Xenosx9, including some solo. I have no webpage, but my email is agate@usa.net, ICQ 4512356. Let's use those for communication. This site has too many readers to be a sutiable personal correspondence page. :)
BTW, I liked all the wads you have worked on too.

I really do not think the BFG is a bad weapon in DM, because the blast is so easy to dodge that only lesser skilled players should complain about it's use.
I much prefer to use SSG and RL in dm as
they are much more fun to use.

I like the way CS doom does it...even skulltag implements a DMflag to disable bfg mlook. In fact, I think the big ball should cause explosion radius(like in Q2, because wall-humping is just as bad as shooting the ground (takes more skill? bah, you just can't use it anywhere you want but it still takes as little skill as floor shooting)

Personally, I would keep mlook on lest I will suck badly the next time I play UT with my friends =

Xenos: thanks for the info. However I would agree to q.pixel that BFG splash area should be a sphere of a relatively large (like 128) radius, surrounding the blast site (like in Quake II), with normal damage distribution within it (1/x^2, x being the distance from the center of explosion to the position if the damaged entity), rather than original DooM II cone extending from where player was when he fired and pointing to the direction where the ball flies. Sphere is just more natural.

By the way, what is rocket splash damage mapped on in csDoom? Sphere? Cube? Cylinder? Parallelepiped?

I haven't played much csDoom but I've played Legacy and SkullTag a lot, and I've noticed that they still haven't made Doom completely three-dimensional. Horizontal splash is there (slightly smaller splash radius than in Quake, but much more deadly) but vertical splash is nonexistant.

If you remember the original Doom, when you fired a rocket at an area that had the exact (x,y) coordinates as the target, that target would take the rocket's damage, no matter what the height. Legacy's buggy "Allow Rocketjump" flag implements this, but barely. The splash is so insane that instead of a normal rocketjump damage range (35-50) you take around 60-80. There still needs to be some work done on that I guess. It's because of this non-splash that foot shots are near-impossible.

Consider this: Rockets explode in a strange way, and that explosion is seemingly developed around the Doom engine and not logical physics. Remember that in the original Doom .exes, the only time a rocket would explode is if it hit something or someone. Therefore, the explosion stops at that barrier, and it can not continue on past that point. Simply put, a rocket explodes in a two-dimensional semicircle from the point of impact, with the semicircle expanding toward the player.

The only way to hit someone with a foot shot is to blast him toward you, thereby hitting behind the target.

Another thing though, anyone else think the rockets are way oversized? I mean, now that we have engine changes going on, why not change the rocket size (and speed?) to Quake's? =)

---

Regarding the BFG: It's not difficult to use if you know how the damage is dealt. The biggest drawback of all is that you can't use it in open combat - you practically have to get the kills by camping, and then the problem of ammo arises (unless you're playing on an Unlimited Ammo server, but I don't know how many of those there are).

Energy weapons are powerful but inefficient because they fire projectiles. Due to the speed of the Doom marine, these projectiles are easily avoided, unless you can trap them against a wall of plasma bolts by spraying them all over the place. Because of the time it takes to use this tactic, you're probably already dead due to a super shotgun blast or chaingun fire.

Phew, long post... that's it for now =)