Contest At Doom Center

this reactionary e1 fetishism makes me sick

Heh. I'm all e1'd out :) E3 style is my latest kick. I've got a few levels on the go. They've got clashing colors and oddball out of place textures. They're gaudy and ugly as all hell.

In otherwords, they're perfect. ^_^

I'm for nostalgia as much as the next guy (as evidenced by my <A HREF="[url="http://almighty.c64.org/">Commodore"]http://almighty.c64.org/">Commodore[/url] 64</A> website), but the main thing that made Episode 1 so memorable is what I'd call the "newbie factor", never having seen anything like Doom before. But after playing Doom and other FPS for thousands of hours, anything "new" just isn't going to have the same effect unfortunately.

Calm down aard, it happens all the time.

Happened with gothic, until there was a lashback. Usually there is one very well designed wad of a particular theme that starts the craze (In the gothic case it was gothicdm, of course).

Same thing happened with E1, and I'll let you speculate as to which wad started it. The repeated lashback will force authors to look in a different direction and try a completely new theme which will become hot stuff. Are you the one to take that step?

You're right. Before gothic I seem to remember it was hellish, probably MM2 and Requiem that helped that along.

There's nothing wrong with nostalgian...

The backlash starts here.

E1 sucks!

Who's with me?

(only joking of course =p )

Ah, but nostalgia isn't what it used to be.

Actually, to tell the truth I prefer E4 over E1. But I think I'm in a very small minority here :)

I was with Nightmare until he said it was a joke... E1; bah.

But I actually prefer Episode Two. Heh, you can't beat the "racism" of the secret level :)

Episode 1 always seemed funner than the other episodes in Doom. E4 provides more of a challenge and I enjoy playing co-op on it.

Same thing happened with E1, and I'll let you speculate as to which wad started it.

doom.wad ?

The repeated lashback will force authors to look in a different direction and try a completely new theme which will become hot stuff.

You underestimate the strength of e1 nostalgia if you think its fad like gothic or whatever.

aard, bah, you "postmodernist"! :P

nostalgia is the longing for something lost (and it's usually implied that this thing that's lost is not as good as how it's remembered), yet, if i actually play e1, even if i've played it 1000 times, it's still fun, and inspiring, it IS true that things that are highly influential and have been WORKED to exhaustion do present a problem to designers, cause you have to compete on the same lines as many other skilled artists that forged and perfected the style before you, so yeah, i do have sympathy for you, but go ahead, i'm sure your map would be pretty good, you might even do something outstandingly original while wrestling with the limits and trodden path of an already perfected style (not to mention that it's the style that basicly represents DOOM firsthand).

so there.

You underestimate the strength of e1 nostalgia if you think its fad like gothic or whatever.

Gothic was no fad, and I do not underestimate the strength of e1 nostalgia. It sounds like your the one that cannot come to terms with E1's place in DOOM history and it's presence.

E1 will not go away, but it will be removed off the prominent pedestal it is currently on. The spotlight is on it and the mappers who follow flow are at their prime right now. The trend will change again, but no one will stop liking or making e1 maps. It will just slow down trememndously. I know that..

"doom": nostalgia is "longing for _whatever_ came first", i.e. it is PURELY ARBITRARY, and as such has no value whatsoever. If something else had come in the place of e1, you would be appreciating that now, so what is the value of the current e1?

if you enjoy nostalgia just for the sake of it, then you are just missing out, because all you do is masturbate those neurons that like e1, and not enjoying new stuff enough.

And you can't say "but I still like e1 NOW" because you haven't got a "clean look" at it. Only someone who has never played doom (1) before, but maybe has played doom2 or a good megawad before, can have a relatively unbiased opinion on e1 (and even that is not completely unbiased, as you can't play multiple things for the first time, to compare).

and "doom": I have no idea why you are referring to "your maps", because never did I intend to say that I can do better or whatever. I suck at mapping. Others luckily don't.

fish: I know the "e1 effect" won't go away. I have no problem with e1 itself, its a decent set of maps. What I do have a problem with people that are kidding themselves ("e1 are the best doom maps ever made") and are too blind to see it.

"If something else had come in the place of e1, you would be appreciating that now, so what is the value of the current e1?"

If e3 had come in the place of e1, I really don't think anyone would be appreciating it now.

"What I do have a problem with people that are kidding themselves ("e1 are the best doom maps ever made") and are too blind to see it."

I haven't seen anyone say that. Perhaps you could point us in the direction of someone who has?

aardappel? 1 word: context.

e1 is: a) fundational b) has a great mood c) fun to play d) familiar, which also means shared by many of us. i'm sure you know how arbitrary existence is, which means you can't judge things from a narrow perspective, like making some list of what makes something great out of some present set of value standards. imagine if someone judged e1 according to "texture alignment", or in relation to post-doom.exe limit maps, or amount of detail in relation to those, etc.

you point your finger at me and say "nostalgia." does it seem like i don't know what that is? did i ever stand for it (i mean there in my post)? have you ever been in a familiar place you are fond of and enjoyed your stay again and again? does not art often have a certain rythm that repeats certain parts, tying together new quirks.. and from there the "original" unfolding?

how "unarbitrary" is your ranting against nostalgia?

to me DOOM has nothing to do with nostalgia.