csDoom v0.62 Released

I have an update on my site (http://haunt.8m.com/doom) about all this, its quite large and convers several different issues, so check it out.

Does it have to come to this? I don't get it: Why can't you just ask for a change instead of run off screaming? This isn't the first time this has happened, either. Personally, I have a rather large outside life including 2 jobs; but I take my lunch breaks specifically to wander the web, check e-mail, and check up on recent Doom happenings. I don't want to read this crap. I'm here because I like game development and I like seeing other people's development as well.

I'm not about to leave Doom. I like building with it and playing it too much. But If I have to hear much more of this kind of crap, my presence may, too, disappear from the community.

The way I see it, it's your loss.

Nicely said, even though you just said what everone elee has been saying ;-) That's a lot of "saids" I agree pretty much with everything that's said.

Note: in my last post, by community I mean Doomworld comments, forums, etc. I would still be very much a part of certain Doom-related circles and be in contact with certain persons.

Just so I'm clear.

Seriously,Insult csdoom is futile because its the best Client/server doom port ever(And the only one BTW =)).If you think it sucks so much...why don't you try to make one yourself? You can't say csdoom is crap because You couldn't(In mose case) create a similar doom port.This whining will lead nowhere.All this does is piss everybody off.Every comunity has its assholes and newbies.We can live with them.That is why all the people who insulted csdoom posted anonymously. "Csdoom is a great game.If you think it sucks.Don't play it and dont write it here that it sucks.Keep it to yourself" -Cyberdud15

That's funny. You can do simple maintenance work in that time, but to do any real fixes to it would involve hours of pulling it out and retangling all the built in problems. Any programmer worth his salt would know that just doing maintenance work only without fixing the underlying problems makes code worse to maintain. Why do you think Mozilla completely ditched the original Netscape code? Things were done in such a quick hack manner for so long that the code base was completely unmaintainable and unreadable to anyone who had ever looked at it.

The argument that Fly didn't want to release the source because it was undocumented/unoptimized is quite amusing. That's the sign of a true newbie: You're supposed to document as you write it, because if you go back you won't understand what you've written and as such it will take twice as long just to get it fixed up. It's very obvious that he released it because he did not want cheating nor did he want the *ahem* borrowed code to be found.

And apparently the argument of 'you all suck, you should write your own' is going around. Programmers are not meant to serve you unless they choose to; any thoughts that they should always be working on projects you're interested is utter stupidity. Tough. People may have more interesting things to work on than Doom. *gasp* What a horrible concept.

Yup. CSDoom's the only one in existance. I'm not saying it sucks but that it has grand flaws not only at a code level but at the author's ethical statements. I say Go NightFang and hope he can code without being childish and immature: He shows interest in it. This doesn't give you a right to smack anyone who doesn't have interest in it.

I've been reading Doomworld since it was Functional Entropy. (How many of you remember that? Hmm?) I may not be part of the community, but I'm just going to state right here that if this is the attitude people take then I can pretty safely state that the Quake communities are more mature and I'll stop reading this crap soon, and I can already see others are going to do so as well.

And yes, I'm posting anonymously (boo, you hate me). I'm not in the mood to listen to how much I suck for taking an unpopular view in email. This is the last time I'm poking at this thread.

Obviously you haven't been paying as much attention to the Quake community as you seem to suggest, they've had far worse goings on than this, and there are always people there fighting over which Quake is better ("Q3 sucks, I'm sticking to Q2!", "I've always hated Q2, hooray for Q3", "you've got a different opinion than me, you suck, you #$&$%*%#$!", etc). And some of those Quakers have got their heads seriously stuck up their own behinds, like that Team Shambler guy.

They've also got people fighting over which Quake "source port" is better, just like us :)

The Doom community may seem more immature than some other communities because a lot of people in this community are 13/14/15 and are stuck with some crappy low end pentium because their parents won't upgrade, meaning they can't player newer games.

Fully agree with that update.

You know, in my opinion, this flame war has been more of a debate in my opinion.

I haven't seen any of Fly's code (apart from that function that caused all this) but I think there's no point in arguing about how *clean/documented* his code is. When you're approaching a problem you're not completely familiar with, even proper planning doesn't always help. Usually some issues come up and you end up 'hacking' it together. I don't think Fly is a bad coder, he was just writing a client/server implementation for the first time. He'll probably rewrite it at some point... Fly's done some great stuff for the Doom community. Let's not abandon him.

I haven't seen any of Fly's code (apart from that function that caused all this) but I think there's no point in arguing about how *clean/documented* his code is. When you're approaching a problem you're not completely familiar with, even proper planning doesn't always help. Usually some issues come up and you end up 'hacking' it together. I don't think Fly is a bad coder, he was just writing a client/server implementation for the first time. He'll probably rewrite it at some point... Fly's done some great stuff for the Doom community. Let's not abandon him.

Amusing you think?, well anyone has the right to have their own oppinion... nedless to say i'm pretty angry right now ;o) Newbie or not, the released csdoom is still in *very* early stages and just because it's undocummented it hasn't got to be bad... as long as fly know how it works, and apparently he does as he keeps updating it, we should see some ever improved versions, atleast that how i think he figured.... Fly had to create the cs from scratch, experimenting to see whats working and whats not, and when I code that way, newbie or not i don't really feel like releasing the source knowing that alot of it is possible to implement better, (I mean, fly even got coments about the if statement, I don't see how an optimized routine to ban people would make csdoom run smoother....), judging by your post you seem to think of the csdoom source as "bad to the bone", not improveable, with nothing good in it, hopefully not too many shares that opinion. Fly was nice enough to release a pre, pre-beta of something unfinished just to let us play and everyone just trashes his work, no wonder why so many leaves the community (I don't have to care, I'm not part of it anyway....) And then, when he's even nicer and releases the source, people just tear that apart too...

Yeah!We said that spicezdoom was the best thing around the csdoom come..and spicezdoom dies down. What the hell happened to spicezdoom?Still stuck at 0.65 or something... Anybody knows?

the old problem is that nearly all server are "Disconnected" but now i get an error named"csd.exe...bla..blah...Kernel32.dll" WHAT CAN I DOOO???????

Poeple...its better to forget this backdoor thing and look foreward. All this..what is with spiceblah....what with legacyblah....! take things how they are...the KGB is dead....The Kommunismus too ...we are all gamers...let's play games,not egos!

Cripes! Leave for five days and all hell breaks loose! Sgt Crispy "Keep on Doom'n!!!"

OK, so Fly is a complete creep who tried to sneak a backdoor into csDOOM, so what? He's removed it, and until NightFang does his version, I'm gonna play csDOOM because regardless of all that's happened, it still kicks butt. I think we should all just try to forget this ever happened once NightFang has released his csDOOM, and just play DOOM.

Those posts trying so hard to prove that Fly is a BAD and IMMORAL programmer (by "annonymous" cowards): BWAHAHAHAHAHAAAAAA! "Oh, the back door! Horrible, in his overabundant free time Fly could actually kick us from a game or even change the map we're playing at his whim! OH MY, NOOOOOOO!" And yeah, right, it's so wrong that he is such a sloppy programmer, "how could we ever allow him to type a single line of code!" Assholes, if you're gonna take the pains to look over the code like that you could at the very least send Fly a constructive letter with your observations (even if just doing it loosely as an aside). Oh wait, maybe I'm mistaken, and Fly was programming the safety code for your bank account or for your property... oh yeah, that's why you were so obsessed with pointing out how ILLEGAL and LAME his code is, right. It's not being made by a teenager in his spare time for others to have fun with, right? It's not someone's hobby being done for free right? No, we should damn and censure him for this. "For God's sakes" (how many sakes is that?). Hey there, they were saying that after the end of the cold war the west was in power... well, what do you know, man, it can get pretty jealous there, eh? HAHAHA! (Anyway, don't worry if this seems hash, does it's recipient have a name, is it really a human being?)

...if this seems harsh, ...

There's a lot of people saying that we can't criticise Fly's work because we can't do any better. Umm, no. If no-one could criticise something just because they couldn't do any better, where would we be? There would pretty much be no reviews of anything, all the crap TV programs that get axed would still be on the air, and everyone would have to have evaluations to see how good they were compared to something else everytime they actually did want to say that it was bad.

no-one would be able to say that Daikatana was a big pile of cack.

anybody had this problem lately? trying to use csdlaucnher and it showing weird servers with a lot of yyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy and the players 250/250 and the ping -1??? What the hell is that!I can't play because when it tries to update the yyyyyyyyyyy servers it crashes......Yikes! this blows =P

delete csdl.ini it will recreat this file next time you launch

Though I agree it was wrong for fly to leave the back doors in, and hard code those IP bans (the former was probaly left in by accident), I whish people would stop trashing him. He made a port that I was hoping and wishing for for a long time, and frankly I think it's awesomne that we finaly have Quake style net code in Doom. Besides, I think he learned (and I hope other programmmers learned) a valuable lewsson from all of this anway [never, never leave back doors in your programs] -balanco

I was talking about the former contraverisal release, not the current

I have read with interest all the bubbling froth, anger and whatever that people have felt the need to express on this issue, but has anyone noticed that most of the last 20 posts or so are saying pretty much the same damn thing. By my reckoning that means there is little new to say on the issue, so lets gets back to DOOM confident that those who felt the need to vent their spleens have done so.

Hmmm. That seems to be happening to me now too.

Heh. I missed your post on how to fix this :) Worked like a charm. Thanks!