DWBS

Well, my level suddenly looks like a pile ff gibs compared to those screenshots. I guess I'll have to put in a little more work if I want a shot at that graphics card. Also, I'm getting tired of my username not showing up when I post a message on the news items. Does anyone know why? I type in both my username and password, but it still doesn't show. BTW, I am geekmarine.

Posting screenshots for a contest that is not yet over is bad. Very, very bad. This punishes those who have already submitted designs and is only to the advantage of those who have not yet entered. There will be plenty of time for screenshots after the submission deadline...now is rather inappropriate.

Ling, I don't think it's really a good idea, or fair to the author(s) of the level(s) who's screenshots you have posted. I can understand you wanting to get quality entries and all, but I think it would be better if you just let the chips fall where they may. I'd rather work in the dark anyhow. Posting screenies of levels that have been submitted can influence the outcome of the contest.

If is true that it exposes the contributors' work, but its also true that it encourages new participants (simply because the pics stand out). I wouldn't take it all so seriously (we're only after a v5) ;-)

Anyway, Ling can now feel he is posting screenshots of his "project", like all us designers do... bah.

Posting screenshots for a WAD contest = good. If people look at these shots and decide to make their levels better, who wins? Everyone, because the level will be better for it. Screenshots can't show off gameplay, or fun factor, which is a big part of this contest.

However, since you seem to hate the idea, I will put it on a poll and see what people think.

You make some good points. Maybe if the goal of the contest was simply to get enough entries to compile a megawad, with the winners getting a spot in the wad, posting screens would be a good thing. However, since there is a substantial prize on the line, I think everything reasonable should be done to ensure the fairness of the contest. You know what people in this community can be like. Some pretty vicious flamewars have erupted over far less...

LOL ... post them screenshots ... idiots should learn something about submitting stuff before the deadline

I bet people now wait to submit their levels till one week before deadline!

I now see gameplay is the ONLY thing left in this contest. Maybe I will make a map bitches.

Even if the #1 gets a video card, and the best 32 get to be in the megawad, I think there should still be 2nd and 3rd place, even if theres no prize. That way semi-badass wad authors will still get recognized. Plus since its apparent that alot of people are working their asses off, its a shame that theres only #1 and top 32.

My opinions;

Personally, it wouldn't matter to me if I get #3 if I'm in the top 32. This may be because I'm not so experienced, but I also think simply being listed as one of the 32 best is still a pretty significant ego trip.

As for the screenshots. Well, I think after Linguica mentioned Darken2 map08 (which had 17 sectors), everyone's already going out of their way to make ten sectors look good. The screenshots won't change anything.

I agree that it might affect the outcome, but:
a) Just because Ling put screenshots of that particular level doesn't mean that's what he expects the winning WAD to be, or that that is what we should all make our levels like,
b) I dunno about you, but I personally am not going to change how I do my level based on those screenshots, and
c) Those don't show off any major secrets. Just a few rooms.


Yeah, if we all had a chance to play each others' levels, the contest would go to hell (no pun intended), but seeing 2 or 3 screenshots won't drastically affect the outcome.

BTW, there's nothing saying that we can't make more than 1 megawad if there are more than 32 entries.

"We"?

Poll results be damned. Releasing screenshots is unfair. This is a competition, and the playing field should be as level as possible. By releasing screenshots of some levels, you are upsetting the balance. People should be aspiring to do their best, not simply to better the screenshots that have been released. While that may encourage more entries, it is unfair to those who have already entered.

Hyena...no. It is Gothic2 MAP08 that is only 17 sectors. As the author of said level, I should know.

I agree with you Mattrim, screenshots of a contest shouldn't be posted. Or someone can release a wad thats almost the same of the screenshots but a little better. That ruins the other persons idea you know. You see? Doh!

Matt:

The contest I am basing this one off of, http://www.planetunreal.com/teamvortex/5cubes/ , not only has screenshots of some of the maps, but has all of the maps available for download, and even says who made what map.

http://www.unrealcontest.com/ had the Make Something Unreal contest which had $150,000 in cash and prizes spread over a bunch of categories. The entries in each categories were made available for download, there were screenshots, they said who made the WADs, and almost anyone could vote for the winners.

This is practically nothing in comparison.

I am showing off some screenshots from some of the WADs which have been entered to make sure that people don't forget about the contest, and to maybe encourage them to work on theirs more to make them better. No one knows whose WAD that is. No judging can be swayed by it. They are just anonymous pictures.

The only way that this can be "unfair" to anyone is if seeing the screenshots encourages someone to make their own level better, and I can not see a single thing wrong with encouraging people to make better levels.

Well, if it isn't unfair to the ones who has not entered yet, it sure as hell is unfair to th guys who built those maps.

I still think, after reading all comments, that this contest should have been closed all the way to the end, but I do not think that there has been any significant damage done.


If do like those other contests did, it would be terribly wrong. I mean just check out some of the polls you have here. Most popular megawad and such. From my experience ppl vote on what is well-known and not on what is the very best. Same thing goes for some of the ppl on the top20 wadauthor list for the 5years of doom.
If I had entered any of the above contests and the jury posted screenshots from maps WITH the authors name, my vision would have turned red by anger.

That last post was mine, I just forgot my password.

You're all forgetting one thing, we can submit more than one level. Meaning that if they want to, the authors of the levels in the screenshots can make them look better and re-submit them.

I think that Ling should either send out e-mails to confirm that he's got actually got individual submitted levels, or set up a page with a list of the authors and their levels.

I for one will be very pissed if it turns out that he never actually recieved my map or something.

screenshots are unfair because maybe somebody else will copy a level based off of 3 screenshots of a level? first of all, if a level's layout can be documented in 3 pictures, (a picture is worth 1000 words, but good levels are hardly that) then that must not be a very big/long map, one of the qualities of a winning map. second of all, if there is some key architecture showcased in the screenshots, great, that is a good feature of that map, and whoever made that map was able to pull that off as well as the rest of a decent map w/ just 10 sectors. someone could possibly copy that, but what about the rest of the level? if they make a better rest of the level, then they are the better map maker and they deserve the prize of whatever they are doing this for. third, if someone steals ideas from the screenshots, EVERYBODY but the original maker can steal ideas, but then again the original mapper can turn around and make a better map. there is no limit to how many maps you do, remember? I don't see what the problem is, even if you are doing it for the community..and fourth, lastly, if not for the sake of getting that v5 card, can't you just share what you have w/ the community?

- Cephaler - in case i forgot my pw

Sorry, Mattrim. That was a typo. I meant Gothic2.

Just a thought.

Why not have a judge or a panel of judges rate the levels and have the levels run from 1st Place as Map 01 through to last place as level 29 and have somone make a decent 10 sector Level 32.

Just a correction on my previous comment.
I actually meant Level 30.

no now go away

No now go away, I hate my job... Damnit, windows keeps going into 320x200! Anyway, listen to my mix tape. Oh yeah, pink fish I am stupid.

lol, Ling's changed "i'n'm'y'p'a'n't's" to I am stupid :)

Oh yes, of course I think that is worth restating; if there was a one-submission limit, then yeah releasing screenshots would be bad. But we can go as many times as we want. I don't see what the problem is there.