Much OBLIGEd

So... SLIGE, now with raven games and fresh air.

It's not so bad. The GUI is really user-friendly. The levels are still ugly but at least it's a step up from SLIGE.

Aside from the Doom version that IIRC Retchir (spelling?) made where it created a new slige map on the fly. Making it possible to just play on and on until you stabbed yourself to death due to overdosage of crappy sliginess level "design", I can't find a single reason to why these things are even made. (other than possibly because the author wants to learn something new, but why bother releasing it?)

It can actually generate some nice looking levels, especially outdoor dm ones.

The more greenier/brownier combination generated ones remind me of some of the doom 1 levels.

kristus said:

I can't find a single reason to why these things are even made. (other than possibly because the author wants to learn something new, but why bother releasing it?)

Umm because it's fun and interesting to mess around with? Because the author enjoys the process of creating it? And then releases it because why the hell not?

I guess it can give the inspiration to map authors aswell to generate a map with it and then work on it extensively.

RTC_Marine said:

I guess it can give the inspiration to map authors aswell to generate a map with it and then work on it extensively.

...which, upon release, would be promptly rejected from the idgames archive.

Bloodshedder said:

...which, upon release, would be promptly rejected from the idgames archive.

I'm not sure that's what he meant. It can be a great 'idea tool', because in the random generation, it might come up with an interestingly laid out area, an interesting situation or an interesting connectivity. Obviously, you wouldn't want to hit 'random', change a few things and upload, but I can see this being a very useful tool when I have mappers block...just give me some random layouts and let me get ideas.

Bloodshedder said:

...which, upon release, would be promptly rejected from the idgames archive.

Just like Beastia.wad was?

Knee Deep in Obliged

AlexMax said:

I'm not sure that's what he meant.

I was referring to the "to generate a map with it and then work on it extensively" portion of his statement. Of course using it for inspiration would be fine, but copypasta is not.

It doesn't really build a full game for Ultimate Doom, as it does not replace the 4th episode. Other than that, pretty neat.

Linguica said:

Umm because it's fun and interesting to mess around with? Because the author enjoys the process of creating it? And then releases it because why the hell not?

That's pretty much it, yeah.

I didn't bother making a big announcement about it because Oblige isn't good enough yet, e.g. Heretic support is crap and Hexen maps are completely broken.

Naked Snake said:

It doesn't really build a full game for Ultimate Doom, as it does not replace the 4th episode.

Will fix.

I sent you an e-mail with a few ideas, lemme know what you think :)

I love this. keep up the good work!

Ajapted, I tried to send you a mail, but ajaptedATusersDOTsfDOTnet does not accept emails.

I installed Oblige 0.85 in my Linux box, it works but if I want to install it in /usr/local/share/games/oblige/, I must chmod +t obl_data/ and chown :staff obl_data/ because it wants to create files in it, instead of in ~/.oblige/.
I had to create a script too in /usr/local/bin/:

#! /bin/bash

cd /usr/local/share/games/oblige/
./Oblige
cd -

The game refuses to be launched from a symlink.

ducon said:

Ajapted, I tried to send you a mail, but ajaptedATusersDOTsfDOTnet does not accept emails.

Maybe you caught sourceforge while I was changing where the email is redirected to. It works for me.

I installed Oblige 0.85 in my Linux box, it works but if I want to install it in /usr/local/share/games/oblige/, I must chmod +t obl_data/ and chown :staff obl_data/ because it wants to create files in it, instead of in ~/.oblige/.

Oblige is not yet compatible with the unix way of installing things. Unpack it somewhere in your home folder and run it from there.

The game refuses to be launched from a symlink.

Oops, running it from GNOME/KDE probably doesn't work either. I'll get onto that...

I set up a map with hordes of monsters and heaps of traps, the bizzare texturing gave it a nice 1994 ambience but it played surprisingly well.

Needs more diagonal walls. Anyway, this looks really promising.

This is a really nice program, alot better than the original slige which only had blocks connected with each other. However I don't get some of the detailing around doors, look bad to me. Like that red/pink skull texture around a tech door.

Gonna make some settings fixing for details? I mean, if you want to make/randomz0r a episode4 replacement with oblige, then you can pick some main textures to do that. Maybe it is just me, I am stupid sometimes. :P

I wonder if it could use a library of premade designs ... ? then oblige would get em rescaled, textured, detailed, so on...

people from the community could contribute hundreds of designs for rooms, details, doors, lifts, stairs .....

Yeah, a map theme idea would kick ass. Like :

-Random
-Hell
-Tech
-E1 style
-E2
-E1
-Doom 2 base
-Doom 2 hell

Etc.

And yeah, like Fredrik said, more angular walls and the like would really be stellar :-)

One of the annoying problems I have found so far, is the annoying pillars with 4 switchs on them like e3m4 of ultimate doom.

Another option in the future should be to instantly load the wad in the engine of choice with the iwad (and any additional pwads and dehs) of choice. That'd be sweet.

VinceDSS said:

people from the community could contribute hundreds of designs for rooms, details, doors, lifts, stairs .....

I wish!

Right now I'm kinda building up a tool-box of what it can make in a level, e.g. some different style lifts and stairs would be nice.

Later on I'll tackle the more interesting part: how to choose what style of doors/lifts/details to use where, and with what themes, to make a consistent whole. So far I have little idea how to do that, but DaniJ's "Palette" idea might be a good start.

As for diagonal walls, there will be some eventually, although they don't fit well with the way Oblige works. Pentagon shaped rooms, for example, are out of the question.

Torn said:

One of the annoying problems I have found so far, is the annoying pillars with 4 switchs on them like e3m4 of ultimate doom.

Each side of the pillar switches opens the same door.

Bloodshedder said:

I was referring to the "to generate a map with it and then work on it extensively" portion of his statement. Of course using it for inspiration would be fine, but copypasta is not.

If one were to create an Oblige map and use it as a skeleton for the map, once enough work is put into it and it gains the author's own style, I don't see why it can't be considered his own map and worthy of the archives. Of course, enough work has to be put into it to designate it as his own work. Only "inspired" by an Oblige base.

If you say in the text file "this map is based on a generated OBLIGE level", Ty will probably reject it. If you say "this map was inspired by an OBLIGE level but not based on one", he'll probably accept it. Edited SLIGE maps, no matter how different from the original, aren't accepted, and I don't see OBLIGE as being any different.

(Of course, since he's on vacation right now, we won't really know.)

My feeling is very much that heavily edited SLIGE/OBLIGE maps would be accepted. The stated rule is as follows:

5.  Don't upload auto-generated files such as would be created with the
    excellent program SLIGE.  You really can't take credit for them
    anyway, and we don't have room for them.

That only specifically rules out unmodified autogenerated maps, and the spirit of it (the "taking credit" part) seems to suggest that maps that have had a fair degree of authorship about them would be accepted.

Grazza said:

My feeling is very much that heavily edited SLIGE/OBLIGE maps would be accepted.

Ask SargeBaldy about this - he and some other people made a project with "revamped" SLIGE maps with a bunch of stuff added to them. It was rejected from the archives, so...

Bloodshedder said:

Ask SargeBaldy about this - he and some other people made a project with "revamped" SLIGE maps with a bunch of stuff added to them. It was rejected from the archives, so...

Strange... I haven't seen those maps, but if the maps still had poor or obviously automated layouts maybe that makes sense, on the other hand, if they were reworked considerably and showed competent additions from the authors, they should be as good as any new level.

At least it would be something worth discussing publicly in the community, from where Ty could draw what constitutes a "SLIGE level", and what makes a level that merely uses SLIGE as one of the tools for its production.