OBLIGE 7.5 Released

Dear Voros, please don't copy and paste someone else's post and pretend it is your words. Thanks.

Sorry about that! I forgot we have to use quotes for that.

Not that there is anything wrong with making something like this, but since there are literally countless custom wads to play is there even a real point in having a random map genorator?

EDIT: Just played a few maps using this thing with a hell theme. Maps were better than I expected. Still not as good as normal levels.

hardcore_gamer said:

Not that there is anything wrong with making something like this, but since there are literally countless custom wads to play is there even a real point in having a random map genorator?

I use it with gameplay mods. I got bored of testing them everytime with IWADs and I think that custom maps were created with normal gameplay in mind

I'll second that, I really only use Oblige when testing out things that modify gameplay. And it's kind of fun to play something like DoomRL in Oblige, since now the levels are random as well. I don't expect an amazing amount of quality from it, but it's pretty impressive how quality some of the levels it makes are.

hardcore_gamer said:

... is there even a real point in having a random map genorator?

I guess the main point at this stage is not what it may seem to most - trying to replace human made maps.
It's probably the programming challenge, the conquering of uncharted territory...
...trying to do things that others haven't done before or doing things that others just find impossible or unnecessary.

It's a simple step in an interesting direction... we will see where this goes.

When the first artificial chess opponents came out they were extremely simple and had problems all over. Now, decades later, the best Chess and Go Champions in the world are beaten left and right by computers.
It is all just getting started and without a doubt at some stage, computers will be able to outperform the human brain in every way... just like right now machines already outperform human bodies in many areas.

But in the end... the main reason for the Doom random map generator might be that the guy who works on it has just FUN doing it. If I were him that would be reason enough
; )

Yep, one reason I work on OBLIGE (perhaps the main reason) is the challenge of trying to make the best maps possible.

Worm318 said:

but since there are literally countless custom wads to play is there even a real point in having a random map genorator?

There are many great wads out there, sure.

But when you play them, you don't have any control over their gameplay. With OBLIGE you can control the kinds of monsters in the maps. Hate Arch-viles? With OBLIGE you can prevent them ever being used. And there are lots of other things you can control in OBLIGE, like map themes, usage of caves, usage of traps, etc.......

So I think that is the main thing OBLIGE brings to the table: user control.

One of these days I might attempt an Oblige homage in WadC...

oblige.wl

hardcore_gamer said:

Not that there is anything wrong with making something like this, but since there are literally countless custom wads to play is there even a real point in having a random map genorator?

For gameplay mods and to keep general Dooming skills sharp.

This is a really great version. V6 was square enough that people would think they were in an 1980s Oldsmobile sedan.

OBLIGE is such a cool tool, thanks for all your hard work on it andrewj!

Looking forward to trying it out. Last time I used it, the layouts were pretty good but the monster/supplies placements left too much to be desired.

andrewj said:

So I think that is the main thing OBLIGE brings to the table: user control.

I use ObHack all the time, because of exactly this point -- I can make maps precisely to my taste in difficulty, size, and complexity any time I want one. No need to wait for someone else to do it, and it's a change from human-made maps that I've already played multiple times. Having a variety of autogenerators is all good, by my lights.

So kudos and thanks!

...just a quick thought.

I'd love to see a MIX. Wouldn't it be awesome if it could use the original iwad as a source, shuffle parts of the maps around and produce endless mashups of it.... or even just change the layout of a single map slightly.... I'd even would be happy if only the items and monsters could be replaced on my fav levels ; )

Doohnibor said:

or even just change the layout of a single map slightly.... I'd even would be happy if only the items and monsters could be replaced on my fav levels ; )

I use the STRAIN monsters on normal maps. Works great for making old maps new again. For real craziness, I load DEHs from both Strain and MythTC (someday we'll release it, someday!) which makes for crazy unpredictable monster types and behavior (like demon lords that randomly throw a cluster of variable-speed projectiles, holobot homers affected by gravity, and suicide bombers that sometimes take a dislike to an innocent wall).

And I've had the thought that the ideal autogenerator would combine elements from both OBLIGE (which looks better) and ObHack (which plays better).

Doohnibor said:

Wouldn't it be awesome if it could use the original iwad as a source, shuffle parts of the maps around and produce endless mashups of it....

I guess some people would like that, though I wouldn't -- I like maps to be novel and unpredictable.

Could be a good project for someone else, it is not too hard to create a bunch of large rectangular prefabs which copy big chunks from the iwads, and then connect these rectangles together to form a map.

For those of you that don't trust SF, you can now get it at MajorGeeks.

andrewj said:

Yep, one reason I work on OBLIGE (perhaps the main reason) is the challenge of trying to make the best maps possible.

So I think that is the main thing OBLIGE brings to the table: user control.

And i think you do a great Job with it. Keep up the good Work.

I dont think that Oblige make User-Made Maps obsolete, but having a random map generator is great Fun.

Mabuse said:

I dont think that Oblige make User-Made Maps obsolete

Neither do I :)

User-made maps can be amazing.