PQ Tackles The Doom 3 Thing Again

this is classic doomworld =]

Feh.

Now is it just me, or did you repeat yourself in 2 consecutive sentences?

hehe, I got a job at PlanetDoom.com when it opens.

Requiem: I doubt that heh

Just like that, now they says quake-like... no more doom-like. Why? I would like to know that.... Doom is the best FPS of all times...... They try to be superior with their quakes-likes.....

"Quake" AND "superior" just don't work in the same sentence. ;-)

Dumbass Quake fuckwits.

Was that aimed at me? I sure hope not, because my "feh" was aimed at Quake purists. :)

They haven't signed anyone up yet...

I think it's the other way around,

"All those who came after join the Rank with Doom."

I hope ID is not thinking of "CrippleQuaking" Doom. I mean, who's gonna play "new coke" (new Doom) if "classic coke" has better FPS.

Go Cov!

it isn't terribly fair saying Quake sucks just because it is only as good as Sonic and Mario. Doom was just something even more special (and misunderstood) because it was just so revolutionary. On the other hand, the step from Doom to Doom 2 was probably the worst next step id had ever taken IMO; I just hope id will do something really special to set itself apart from the rest of the series. id just needs to create its most immersive atmosphere ever, while keeping it touch with quality gameplay that made Quake 3. The biggest problem with Quake 2 (to me) was the fact the game seemed to get easier as I progressed; I've never actually cared that much for Doom 2 because of its openness and lack of drama (from my POV).

However, even given the quality of the initial Dooms, they just don't get much attention anymore because of the lack of quality levels and general editing ability. With Quake 3, considerably moreso than Doom, the tools are there for people to make quality mods and levels, and that is why Quake 3 has the potential to leave a legacy quite comparable to that of Doom if not possibly greater. Trust me, Dehacked can only do so much...

DooM is DooM and Quake is Quake! 'Nuff said!

Niptlar, the Doom source code has been released, people can make Doom be whatever the hell they want it to be, moreso than Q3A.

"Dehacked can only do so much" pff

I dont really think you can edit Quake3 more than Doom, but the truth is that modifying Q3 may be more interesting in terms of graphics. Q3 is certainly more attractive for people aiming on making models (because the graphics engine is great... models can be very complex and detailed). In Doom all you can do is make sprites or models for ZDoomGl (which use md2 format... far more simple than md3's). However I have never seen a community so dedicated to a game as the Doom community, and it is most certainly the one with the best projects. I only wish I could see such efforts in other games like Half-Life, Q3, Unreal, etc.

Hopefully with Doom3 great projects will start to appear. However I fear people from the Quake community may be better "equipped" at mod making for this game, since the game will certainly be more like Q3 in terms of editing than Doom. Doomers will have to learn how to do things that people that edit Q3 already know, such as modelling for example. The experts will be 3dStudio Max modellers, not sprite artists. Doomers will have to evolve to be able to succesfully edit Doom3.

Quake = total suckage. Doom = kicks your momma's ass good and propa!

I'm serious. Try quake 3 arena, then try unreal tournament, I think you'll be pleasantly surprised by the experience :)

Look at Q1. Brown shit. Q2 == gray + orange shit. Q3 == Q1 + Q2 == shit.

"Niptlar, the Doom source code has been released, people can make Doom be whatever the hell they want it to be, moreso than Q3A.

'Dehacked can only do so much' pff "

Much work had to be done with source to even provide the game itself much of the functionality of the later Quakes. ZDoom is pretty much at level of Quake 2 as far as environment potential is concerned, but the ZDoom source is what most programmers want to get their hands on, not the old source. Please note ZDoom is continuously in development, making updating any ZDoom feed-off projects a bit difficult to maintain, since programmers would need to keep updating their own source with the ZDoom changes.

By the time the source itself was released, most people had already moved on, and before the source itself was released, there was little you could really do with Doom from the gameplay point of view. Sure, you could do whatever sound and graphic stuff you cared for, but you couldn't even change the normal max health from 100, much less create new weapons that didn't behave like existing weapons.

At any rate, anything you can make with Quake 3 will take you at least twice the time in the Doom source. I have also have not seen a genuine freelook 3-D view as of yet.

At any rate, DM itself is really limited with Doom simply because the lack of gameplay options. Because of the speed in Doom, projectile weapons are seldom effective again true veterans, leaving the game to depend of who has the best CG/SG/SS aim. With Quake 3, dodging can be very effective, but projectile attacks are actually formidable. Additionally, in Q3, the weapons themselves are much more versatile.

So far the only non "anti-Quake propaganda" arguments I have found so far are that the Quakes look ugly and that Doom now does have source code. Quake 1 itself had very rough looking models, and Quake 2 tried to be a bit to realistic. However, if you actually have a good computer and video card with the graphic quality turned up in Quake 3, the graphics are really pretty sweet. The main problem with Quake 3 right now is the cost of the computer you need to run the game at its potential. The problems with the Doom source have been discussed earlier; too much just has to be reinvented to make purer environment. Dammit, I want to be able to make a real rocket jump in Doom! The two closest tricks are the e3m6 secret exit and the limited Quake-like RJing potential of ZDoom (however, the lack of a true freelook blocks the ability of a player to look straight down).

I'd like to thank CBC for writing a post with content.

"However, even given the quality of the initial Dooms, they just don't get much attention anymore because of the lack of quality levels and general editing ability. With Quake 3, considerably moreso than Doom, the tools are there for people to make quality mods and levels, and that is why Quake 3 has the potential to leave a legacy quite comparable to that of Doom if not possibly greater. Trust me, Dehacked can only do so much... "

This is from your initial post. You say that Quake 3 Arena's advantages over Doom are "quality levels and general editing ability." While I can't dispute the "quality levels" bit, it seems that you are saying that Quake 3 is more open to editability. If this is what you were trying to say, then it is a farce, because having the entire code base available for Doom ensures that it is, and always will be more editable than a closed source game such as Q3A. Now, programming a Q3A DLL or VGM (or whatever they called it) may be easier, but you don't have the ability to change all the elements of the game as you do with Doom.

True 3-D freelook ports? JDoom.

Doom is a TON more editable than Quake 3 Arena. It wasn't before the source release, but it is now.

The rest of your post contained gameplay arguments. I don't care to comment on those because they are purely opinion and can be argued about until the cows come home.

This isn't meant to be a "DOOM IS BETTAR THAN QUACK THREE BECAUSE QUAKKE HAS BROWN SHIT AND IT S STUPID" post, I'm just saying that Doom has much more editability.

After re-reading, I think your initial post was comparing Doom at release to Quake 3 Arena at release. Gee, I wonder which one is going to be more technologically advanced.

The reason of all this is: Doom is old.

Tools at release are in a way relevant since that is when the game is at its peak, but even considering what there is now, while Doom has more potential than Quake 3 w/ only game source (not full source), adding to Quake 3 itself in most ways is considerably easier than adding to Doom. There are powerful functions built into the Quake 3 source that don't exist in Doom that save Q3 coders some rigor. Additionally, there are more procedures pertaining in Q3 game source that can be exploited to save time. It would be much easier to create a Proximity Grenade Launcher using the Q3 game source than with the Doom complete source simply because the Grenade Launcher for Q3 can be used as a template.

A problem with much of the developments that are occuring with the Doom complete source is that the progress isn't very centralized. There are several ZDoom-like ports in the works, but not all of the features of all such ports converge into one encompassing port, and any effort to make one would be daunting. As a matter of fact, I had never even heard of JDoom before.

mewse, your last response was the sort of post I was looking for. Don't worry, I can generally tell which posts are not "DooM RULEZ YUR ASS". :) Including details and elaboration is what makes any bit of writing at least remotely meaningful literature.

DOOM IS BETTAR THAN QUACK THREE BECAUSE QUAKKE HAS BROWN SHIT AND IT S STUPID

Actually, there is some truth behind Doom joining Quake.

On the help/about Id screen in the first Commander Keen game(1990), it says:

"Our next game will be Quake:Fight for Justice."

We all know Doom was made in 1993/1994, so I guess it is half true. But lets just say that "Quake Fight for Justice" would probally have been some platform game, perhaps a more adult version of Commander Keen.

so you all think that us DOOMers and DOOMets dont have what it takes to make any tc for the new DOOM3 ...you think that well have to learn new shit ..is that right ...well let me tell you somthin ...your wrong.... us DOOM SPACE MARINES have been playn our doom for about 7 years and some havent.. some have only played for a couple but anyways we all have made somthin for doom wether it be a level or a new weapons patch or just new walls or just a new tc or maybe a source port we have all done somthin for doom we have what it takes we can keep up infact if anything we knew how to model a character and his bones before anyone of you doom clones out there we are superior we are doomers and were here to stay ...if the new doom3 was another doom like its original with no change to it just new levels tens bucks say that us doomers would be proud.. we love to see what id has in store for us.. we dont care what it looks like ...why cause doom has a soul that no other game has... other games are fake at heart and has legions of tenee boppers who play it just wastn precious ammo in a death match saving and wasting time in a single player game making there first add on with the knowledge they learned from doom taking credit for what they done and then coming back to the doom community to say that were old school and that were gonna have to learn new shit fuck that....like i said before we dommers are elite we are a community that will never crumble when doom3 comes out he'll judge all of you and slaughter your video games by trillions of frags...quake 3 is just a tournament a tournament that will end soon quake3 wont go far quake wont go far at all doom will...the doom story strecths from doom 1 all the way to quake 3 and now doom3... there all connected ...after the tournament is over and the doom space marine has killed all ...he'll return ....the story makes perfect sense i knew somthin was up when i first laid eyes on the bfg in q2 i knew that the doom space marine lives and will tell another story agin...i knew then that i will confront him sooner or later and i did in q3 but my god what a poor example for a doom space marine he must have been weak cause i done tore his ass up it must of been all the battles with demons and god knows that the doom space marine has done alot of killing ...he must be all fucked up in the brain...but yeah people here and other sites related to doom well there all wonderful people they take the lil time they have to make these great wonderful things not just cause they love the game but cause they actually get things out of it they learn they learn to program and alot more there wonderful people and so are quakers..i just dont like when assholes disrespect us all here in doom world when they say that doom has finnally joins the ranks of quack and sonic and mario how dare they i mean shit fuckn doom rules above all games .. has there ever been a game that has been on tv as much as doom has there ever been a game were catholics and etc complain about the game has there ever been anothyer game that has been played for 7 freakn long years no thats right doom is the only one doom rules.. and quake well its just a flop it will never earn the title as god doom is god doom shits a beserk turd on you quakers or in the words of you quack bastards doom takes a shit on quad dammage on your stinky already brown shit of a game i admitt its a good game but it really knows how to tick off a doomer grrrrrr to many people thinkl to lil of doom they need to stop doin that why cause number one they never really got into it at one point they were but then they got out grr all this maddness of doom3 is giving me an aneurism i have such a major brain fart ...i lost were i was going with all this damn but yeah doom rules and quaker oatmeal sucks actually unreal sucks more and there wanna be doom clone unreal2 ohh wait i was sopose to keep that a secret oops :) darn but anyways may unreal burn in hell and there shity tournament like q3 the deathmatch wont be forever....doom is forever..:)

morbidtwatt, have you been at those mind altering substances again? I TOLD you they were bad for you! Now look what you've gone and done! Tsk.