Scythe 2 Completed

Managed to complete maps 28 and 29 on UV -fast, pistol start on map 28.

Quite possible, and very tough. I must be a glutton for punishment (28 had some nasty moments, specially with those super-flying-baron things), but I've been relishing the challenge so far.

Not for everyone, but they are good maps. Thank you Erik! :)

waverider said:

Imo, just making stuff and let them turn out the way however they turn out, is really the way to go for good creativity, if you strive for perfection and for rules it's easy to get stuck, at least in my opinion. Also it's more fun to be creative this way and imo, the result may turn out better as well.

Agreed tenfold. I can't seem to do anything if I have any clue what it might look like in the end. Best thing to do is be random and do whatever the heck you feel like at the moment -- works for me, anyhow. ;P

Also, I have my fingers crossed for Scythe 3 in Eternity with portal abuse. :)

I'm certainly hoping for a Scythe 3 as well :)

I really disliked Scythe I (too short levels, nothing really epic, pointless first maps), but loved Scythe II on the other hand as I haven't found another really polished, rigid, austere design.

Gonna definitely check it out.

I thought I was bad about picking WADs apart, but for once I can't really complain. I'm surprised that a lot of you can, but I guess if you don't like it, you don't like it.

I loved (almost) every minute. I played through the entire WAD again to get to these new levels, and was pleasantly surprised. It must have hit me the wrong way for one reason or another when Scythe II came out in 2005 because I actually didn't really like it at the time. I think it was partially the ridiculousness of the slaughter maps late in the WAD (namely Map23-25 and 27), and some very sudden ramp-ups of difficulty (the mancubus horde at the end of the Industrial episode seemed impossible). Those maps are still daunting, but I played them on Skill 2 this time, and found I enjoyed them a lot more.

For the new maps, 28 felt out of place, somehow, but maybe it's just because I'm not used to it being there. 29 is a bit of a lull in the action, unexpected, but not unappreciated -- a few minutes to breathe before we plunge into Map30. As for that final level, I just can't say enough good things about it, so I'll say only that it was the perfect ending to what is now one of my favorite WADs.

Just playing the whole wad again to get to the new maps on the legit way!
So far I'm on Map25 and boy, I really forgot how hard some of the maps are...

Ryathaen said:

I thought I was bad about picking WADs apart, but for once I can't really complain. I'm surprised that a lot of you can, but I guess if you don't like it, you don't like it.

Oh, the maps weren't bad (except the gameplay aspect of 29), but they certainly didn't compare well to the rest of the wad. They're what you would call filler maps, if you ask me, or they'd fit better in Scythe 1.

Played the last three maps, and liked them. Agree that they might not be for everyone but they are good.

Map28 was a BFG-fest, somewhat mindless but still a challenge and enjoyable.

Map29 is clearly frustrating to some and I can understand, but I enjoyed as I found it easy enough to avoid the lava as long as I run from one small platform of normal surface to another. And I really liked how the author managed to make a quite challenging map despite only putting merely 165 monsters into a relatively large level. So a frustrating map probably for some, but I was a liker of it and eventually didn't find it that frustrating either.

Map30 is a great surprise for the ending! Won't say any more, though I will admit that it wasn't quite as difficult as I had expected. I play on HMP, and I think that less gearing of the monsters toward the harder difficulties (especially UV; I took a peak on that setting and it looked MUCH more brutal than HMP) and perhaps not quite so many supercharges/BFG cells. Still a very good final map.

About map order, I think the final episode should go 26, 28, 29, 27, 30. That would make the most logical sense IMO as far as difficulty/size/atmosphere is concerned. Not a big problem, just my opinion on how it would be ideal.

But some more nice maps overall to finish off one of my favorite megawads. In fact, there are probably only maybe 5 or so maps in the entire set that aren't so nice IMO. (Map06, 09, 16 instantly come to mind). Even with that, it's probably the best one-man megawad I've ever played, seriously worth all of 5 stars. Good job, Erik! (And hopefully Scythe 3 is on the horizon)!

P.S. Why does Map32 (Super Secret) go from an easy chainsaw/pistol map abruptly to an insame HR/Plutonia-esque slaughterfest? It was a good map, but the sudden change didn't make sense to me. Not to mention, why do I see an exit sign right before the map changes style? Maybe some kind of joke or something?

Do0minat0r said:

P.S. Why does Map32 (Super Secret) go from an easy chainsaw/pistol map abruptly to an insame HR/Plutonia-esque slaughterfest? It was a good map, but the sudden change didn't make sense to me. Not to mention, why do I see an exit sign right before the map changes style? Maybe some kind of joke or something?

The first part of Scythe 2 Map32 is actually the same as Map01 in Scythe 1, and that level ends where the first exit sign is at Scythe 2 Map32.

I'm guessing Erik meant this to be like Hell Keep VS. Warrens in Doom 1.

waverider said:

The first part of Scythe 2 Map32 is actually the same as Map01 in Scythe 1, and that level ends where the first exit sign is at Scythe 2 Map32.

I'm guessing Erik meant this to be like Hell Keep VS. Warrens in Doom 1.

Oh, it's been so long since I've played Scythe 1 (despite loving it) that I forgot what every map was like. But looking back now, that's indeed the case, so thanks for pointing it out/reminding me. A nice idea, and executed better that Warrens vs. Hell Keep IMO.

In fact, I wish there were more maps like that around. I, for one, find it a really neat way to make a (secret) map unique.

Do0minat0r said:

Oh, it's been so long since I've played Scythe 1 (despite loving it) that I forgot what every map was like. But looking back now, that's indeed the case, so thanks for pointing it out/reminding me. A nice idea, and executed better that Warrens vs. Hell Keep IMO.

In fact, I wish there were more maps like that around. I, for one, find it a really neat way to make a (secret) map unique.

No problem, and I agree, the Hell Keep / Warrens thing is way better executed here in Scythe 2, it's indeed a very nice secret map.

waverider said:

No problem, and I agree, the Hell Keep / Warrens thing is way better executed here in Scythe 2, it's indeed a very nice secret map.

On that topic, do you know of any more maps like that? (Please don't say E3M9 of Wonderfull Doom, I know that is an expanded E1(!, wasn't it E3 in the original game?)M1 and have already played it).

Anyways, as I mentioned, Scythe 2 is an insanely fantastic megawad. But I should mention that I very much think that Map16, not Map09 (as the author insists) is the weakest map. Map09 is dissapointing overall, but Map16 seemed totally pointless and out of place (and while playing this, I wondered, what was Erik thinking?). Map09 is probably second worst, but I think that "Don't know what I was thinking" comment in the text would be better for Map16.

Fortunately, both of these map are relatively short. In fact, I thought all the medium-long length levels were at least good, some utterly fantastic. I don't know, maybe he scrubbed a few fillers in here and there, though that's not saying there aren't a noteworthy number of maps in here that are small but seem complete and not just filler material nonetheless. I'm starting to get the point of Map06 a bit, so it is really Map09 and Map16 (and maybe the first secret level, Map31, though it is well worth playing to find the cool Hell Keep/Warrens-esque super secret level) that dissapointed me by far the most.

Really other than that, there wasn't much in here that dissapointed me to any serious level. Some other maps are smaller than I would have expected, but these ones at least feel complete and thought out and not just put together as a filler. Then there's the last episode, where the map order could have used to be improved, but I liked all the maps, so no big deal. And of course, Map07 is another Dead Simple variant, but it's an OK one, unlike some others. And I loved the surprises of Map30 as well as not ending with yet another Romero battle.

So really, I can't call it "perfect", but nor could I call anything else "perfect" either, and this is truely a fantastic piece of work, as I've said before. I gave it 5 stars back in 2005 and I'd still give it 5 stars now. In fact, it is probably one of the 10-20 favorite wads of all time, as it gets things amazingly right for the most part, and deserves even more credit for being a one man effort; I truely don't think I've seen a more solid one-man megawad in my lifetime. Vile Flesh comes to mind but Scythe 2 is at least as good I think. So great job, Erik, and I hope you plan for more, whether it be Scythe 3 or something else. All said, that should wrap up my conclusion for this wad, though I know I'll probably be playing this masterpiece again someday!

That's incredible! Erik's wads are always my favorites.

Very nice that Erik decided to finish his work, despite his not so promising words in release comment for Scythe 2 four years ago.

Thank you very much, Erik! I'm lost for society for some time, playing scythe 2 for 50th time on UV.

Do0minat0r said:

On that topic, do you know of any more maps like that?

Well, you could say map01 and map13 of Equinox, although it is immediately obvious that the place has been transformed.

Vader said:

Just playing the whole wad again to get to the new maps on the legit way!
So far I'm on Map25 and boy, I really forgot how hard some of the maps are...

No joke. I just got to the end of MAP24 with 8 monsters left, had 200/200, and thought "I win! What 8 monsters could possibly kill me?" SPOILER: I pop a switch, 4 of those super ridiculously fast plasma soldiers come out, and before I can get a BFG blast off, I'm dead :( SWEET AGONY!

Yeah. those red marines are batshit nasty.

And they are so hard to reliably infight too, coz the other monsters have a very hard time hitting them, so usually you die, the red marine/s stop because they have killed you, and then a Demon (or some other monster) will walk up and take a chunk out of said red marines ass, and then the infighting begins. Which is cool, but very little use to you by that point.

I did manage to infight a red marine against a manc. Marine hits manc while shooting at me. Manc turns around and hit the marine point blank with both barrels. Poor marine. I actually expected the manc to lose.

Am up to level 23 now, so at least I know how level 24 ends.

It ends badly, apparently. ;)

I think the thing with maps 28-30 is this: maps 26 and 27 had this dark oppressive atmosphere that came from extremely good use of lighting - mostly dark, even in the areas under sky, but with pools of light surrounding lava and so forth. Maps 28-30 are mostly brightly lit, outdoor maps and feel positively light and airy in comparison. Try running round map27 with IDBEHOLDL.

I also felt the theme replacement of LAVA1 with the inferior hot rocks RROCK05 (which doesn't go at all well with the DBRAIN1 lava fall replacement) and the lurid red RROCK01 with the more drab variants RROCK04 and black ash ADEL_F74 took something away.

Of course, maybe I've just been spoiled by hell maps like DVII map21. Maps 28-30 still play like what I'd expect from end of Scythe 2.

MAP26 also makes good use of RAPING YOU THE INSTANT THE MAP STARTS. ugh, I'm getting close to IDKFA-ing this map :\ I wonder if Erik has some sort of vendetta against anyone playing his wad and wants to severely punish those who do so.

Carnevil said:

I wonder if Erik has some sort of vendetta against anyone playing his wad and wants to severely punish those who do so.

esselfortium said here:
Not directly, but you could make the previous map end by simultaneously killing the player and triggering a romero-head exit, a la the end of most of Scythe 2's episodes.

Yes.